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Well then, I guess it all comes down to the fact that the designers did not consider Japan to be a "major player". I would think that it would have been better if they were considered so, in order to effectively play out the Pacific theater. But since a workaround is possble (ally with the axis should they be ready to fall) it should not present itself as an obstacle.
 

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Originally posted by J P Falcon
Well then, I guess it all comes down to the fact that the designers did not consider Japan to be a "major player". I would think that it would have been better if they were considered so, in order to effectively play out the Pacific theater. But since a workaround is possble (ally with the axis should they be ready to fall) it should not present itself as an obstacle.

Not that it wasn't considered a major player, it's considered an Axis nation.
 

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What sold me on this game, and apparently many others, was "possibilities". What if this happened instead of that? What if things didn't progress as we know from history? I was so excited about this game from reading the box that I did something which I haven't done in almost five years: I paid full price for a new game.

Obviously that is implemented to a certian degree. Some historical events pop up and you are given an opportunity to follow history, or choose one or two other options depending on the event. Playing a game which is designed to follow history exactly every time you play it ruins the replay value, and its obvious to me that the designers of this game knew that and worked to make sure that it didn't follow history exactly. I think that they succeded to a great degree, but I think they failed on two critical points.

Outside of bug fixes, here are the two things that I think must change to increase replayability, and I think they would go a long way to make me and many other fans more than happy (maybe even proud) to pay full price for this game:

1) Time limit (game ends 1948). Some people would like to see this removed altogether, but I think pushing it to 1953 would be very reasonable. Five more game years should be enough to satisfy me and many other gamers.

2) Victory conditions (game ends with Axis or Allied defeat). Historically, this is more than enough, but its not what I thought I was getting when I shelled out $44 U.S. plus tax. I assumed that a game with this kind of complexity would give you the ability to select from a small variety of victory conditions somewhat like the game "Axis & Allies". Even without being able to select victory conditions, the game should not end with the defeat of the Axis or the Allies unless the player is a member of one of those alliances. This, more so than the time limit, must change.

Imagine the frustration of a first time player who, playing as the U.S.S.R., doesn't want to join either side of the conflict, but rather impose their vision of communist distopia on all peoples of all nations, only to have their game cut short in the middle of their own world war when the one and only Axis country is wiped out. It just might turn them away from purchasing another game made Paradox or Stategy First.

On another note:

Originally posted by Moonwalker
The reason why it ends in 1948 is simply because it covers the World War 2, nothing more, nothing less. I think the time-frame 36-48 gives enough room for alternative outcomes of the war. Remember, most of the games similar to HOI often have a timeframe of 39-45 or 39-46.

I hope that no human Axis player ever succeds in invading America. Why? Because it's more silly than realistic. An invasion and occupation of Great Brittain should be possible. But an invasion of the U.S. is a hole different matter.

And I hope that an Axis-player never gets a chance to even consider an invasion of the U.S. Because that would just be S.I.L.L.Y, silly. :)

Nope, not silly. The Nazis used a U-boat & a tourist map of New York to survey the city & the surrounding waters. This recon mission of theirs led to the development of a "realistic" plan to invade the U.S. Eastern sea board. Its a fact. Thankfully they lost the war long before they had the chance to implement this plan! Whether or not it would have worked is a different story.

Originally posted by blah.blah.blah
I think the thing to remember here is that it is almost beyond belief that either germany or japan would ever have been able to mount a cross-ocean continental invasion. The logistical problems alone would preclude it, and there is also the fact that the US would have no trouble whatsoever creating a land army large enough to deal with any conceivable landing forces. That doesn't even count the US navy. An invasion of alaska would be much more likely, but wouldn't really achieve anything for many of the same reasons. It's like the soviets invading the usa. It was just never a realistic option for them.

There are a string of islands near Alaska that, during the war, the Japanese had control of some, and were very determined to gain control of the rest. The U.S. had a very difficult time keeping the islands they had (control of them switched back and forth at least once), and just barely was able to beat the Japanese out of all the islands. It takes no stretch of logic to see that they intended to use those islands as stepping stones for a full scale north american invasion. Thankfully, they did not succeed!

On the soviets invading the U.S., during the '80s U.S. officials questioned a high ranking Soviet military offical who had defected to the U.S.. Chief among their questions was whether or not the U.S.S.R. ever had plans to invade U.S. soil. The Soviet defector said they never even considered invading simply because our citizens are allowed to have firearms, making the challenge far to difficult from their point of view. Thanks for the 2nd amendment!
 
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Metatron, while I wholeheartedly agree with your points about the game. I do disagree about the invadibility of the US.

Even with today's technology jump back a decade; a US invasion of a Warsaw Pact controlled Europe, or a Soviet invasion of the US would be impossible. This is the reason why there are so many key alliance partners for the US; local bases from which to support and supply air and ground assests. Neither the Pacific, nor the Atlantic are negotiable enough to use as a supply channel.

Whether or not the US attacks Iraq, if it does, the scale of the invasion (supported BTW by theatre based air and land bases) it will be on a much smaller scale than HOI makes available for a sim supposedly set 60 years ago
 

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Dinsdale,
I'm a little confused. I'm not sure what you're dissagreeing with, or if your disagreeing with me even.

Did I say the US was invalid? I hope I didn't give that impression. I was just giving two historical examples of how the Nazis and the Japanese at least thought an invasion of the US was possible. Whether or not it was really possible, I think its fun to explore these kinds of possibilities in a computer game, thats what games are for.

On the Soviet thing, thats just hearsay based on what was told to US intelligence by an high level Soviet defector.
 

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Metatron,

Despite the Aleutian invasion, the Japanese had no possibility of ever invading the US. A Japanese landing, even as far away as Hawaii would have been impossible. The initial Aleutian invasion was never seriously opposed, partly because the US had equal problems in supplying an army large enough to operate in that area. Striking, with anything more than a raid, was way beyond the Japanese, even if they had some high level concept of what might be necessary.

Equally, Germany, which could not manage a 22 mile channel crossing in July 1940, when Britain had barely a division of fully equipped troops, was never going to be able to cross the Altantic.

Japanese and German dreams of potential invasion, were just that, dreams.

HOI makes it way too easy to carry out invasions. It would be fun to explore in the game, but the US has been conquered in 1936 by a player as Italy, it really invalidates any verification of potential scenarios, because no additional preparation need be carried out by the player to carry out a successful invasion of any country, anywhere on earth.

The modern examples were simply to demonstrate how difficult/impossible long range amphib operations are today, let alone in 1940.
 

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Ah, I believe I understand where you presume to disagree with me.

I think you're assuming I meant they could invade. I was only stating that they had plans to invade, and that the Japanese might have been trying in one case, or, at the very least, testing the plausibility of an invasion.

Although I agree with you on all of your points, I was simply trying to point out that the Axis powers were considering plans for a US invasion as an example of the possibilities one could entertain while playing a computer game.

Whether or not certain things were done historically, or whether or not those things were entirely possible, should not be the basis for overly constraining a recreational game or making it strictly adhere to historical events.

Don't get me wrong, I think the designers of HOI went a long way to make sure this game wasn't constraining or strictly adhereing to history, and I think they did a great job of it, but I think they need to rework those two little things to make it a perfect 10 in the replayability department.