Time limits

[unmerged(11906)]

Why do strategy war games always have to have time limits? (1948 in this games case)
What will happen if I play as Germany and do something Hitler didnt and come 1948 I'm just gearing up for an invasion of america will the game just end and Ill never know what would of happened?
I mean if Germany had taken the UK then the USA would not have had a staging platform for the d-day landings and Germany would have had a Two front war and not a Three so presumably the war would have lasted a lot longer.
Is there a way to stop the game from ending? I would rather carry on without R&D than have the game turn itself off after a given time. If you have to give it a limit then why not 1970 or 1980 and give people a good chance to conquer the world, 1948 is too short a time realistically, any insight into this would be appreciated.

Jay
UK

 

[The Andy-Man]

Because the whole point is so you DON'T conquer the world , Anyway, the developers said 1948 was the limit to allow any unexpected results except for an invasion of the USA. Which is propbabl;y damn near impossible for germany to do anyway. going to 1970 or 80 would just drag the game out pointlessly

 

[BiB]

I'm guessing pretty soon there'll be anunofficial patch to make it possible but Paradox is making a 36-48 game, if u play on after that, it's ur own adventure

 

[unmerged(4277)]

Originally posted by BiB
I'm guessing pretty soon there'll be anunofficial patch to make it possible but Paradox is making a 36-48 game, if u play on after that, it's ur own adventure

Isn't there also some talk of an American Empire patch?

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by JoshWeber
Isn't there also some talk of an American Empire patch?

I bet there's talk of zillion of possible unofficial patches. The game is very editable after all and many users have a very vivid imagination

 

[unmerged(4277)]

Originally posted by BiB
I bet there's talk of zillion of possible unofficial patches. The game is very editable after all and many users have a very vivid imagination

I'd like an American Empire patch. That'd be fun. The only problem (off of the top of my head) is that they couldn't give the Texas panhandle to the Union. I believe it was split in half. I could be wrong, though.

 

[unmerged(2778)]

Originally posted by jayg

What will happen if I play as Germany and do something Hitler didnt and come 1948 I'm just gearing up for an invasion of america will the game just end and Ill never know what would of happened?
I mean if Germany had taken the UK then the USA would not have had a staging platform for the d-day landings and Germany would have had a Two front war and not a Three so presumably the war would have lasted a lot longer.
UK

The reason why it ends in 1948 is simply because it covers the World War 2, nothing more, nothing less. I think the time-frame 36-48 gives enough room for alternative outcomes of the war. Remember, most of the games similar to HOI often have a timeframe of 39-45 or 39-46.

I hope that no human Axis player ever succeds in invading America. Why? Because it's more silly than realistic. An invasion and occupation of Great Brittain should be possible. But an invasion of the U.S. is a hole different matter.

And I hope that an Axis-player never gets a chance to even consider an invasion of the U.S. Because that would just be S.I.L.L.Y, silly.

 

[unmerged(3999)]

Well, direct yourself to the AAR forum, where Sytass' USSR is now invading America. Of course he softened it up with a few A-bombs first...

 

[unmerged(11748)]

It would have been interesting to include the Korean War event to the game. I mean extending the time limit out to '53 or later. The game includes the Spanish Civil War (and correctly so), so it would be interesting if the player could recreate that democratic vs. communist clash.

 

[unmerged(11149)]

Originally posted by Detroit Rock
It would have been interesting to include the Korean War event to the game. I mean extending the time limit out to '53 or later. The game includes the Spanish Civil War (and correctly so), so it would be interesting if the player could recreate that democratic vs. communist clash.

I don't think this game would simulate the Korean War very well. This game is directed towards all out war with large exchanges of land. If you have a Korean war scenario I would think it would almost always degenerate into an all out war between demacracy and communists. Unless the US and China makes their troops into expeditionary forces under South and North Korean commands respectivly, and how realistic would that be?

 

[unmerged(9994)]

Re: Re: Time limits

Originally posted by Moonwalker
I hope that no human Axis player ever succeds in invading America. Why? Because it's more silly than realistic. An invasion and occupation of Great Brittain should be possible. But an invasion of the U.S. is a hole different matter.

And I hope that an Axis-player never gets a chance to even consider an invasion of the U.S. Because that would just be S.I.L.L.Y, silly.

Americans at the time certainly didn't think it was silly. They were scared and that caused some unsavory actions such as the Nisei internment.

If the Japanese had had better luck in the Pacific, an invasion of the US would have been likely. Certainly Alaska and Hawaii, and possibly the west coast as well. America had a tiny army, the navy protected her.

As for Germany, why would they stop with Britain? Hitler wasn't about to stop until he got beaten. And America's industrial might wouldn't have prevented a belligerent power which controlled the entire industry of Europe from attacking.

I'll grant that "Germany" invading the US would be far-fetched. However, "Europe" under Hitler's domination would be likely to do that.

 

[Juba]

Re: Re: Re: Time limits

Originally posted by Eddie Teach
If the Japanese had had better luck in the Pacific, an invasion of the US would have been likely. Certainly Alaska and Hawaii, and possibly the west coast as well. America had a tiny army, the navy protected her.

Don't think so, even a Japanese invasion of Hawaii would be very unlikely unless every US ship in the Pacific had been sunk. By 1941 the army was big enough to take on any force that the Japanese could land. The Japanese weren't foolish enough to think otherwise.

 

[blah.blah.blah]

Re: Re: Re: Time limits

Originally posted by Eddie Teach
Americans at the time certainly didn't think it was silly. They were scared and that caused some unsavory actions such as the Nisei internment.

If the Japanese had had better luck in the Pacific, an invasion of the US would have been likely. Certainly Alaska and Hawaii, and possibly the west coast as well. America had a tiny army, the navy protected her.

As for Germany, why would they stop with Britain? Hitler wasn't about to stop until he got beaten. And America's industrial might wouldn't have prevented a belligerent power which controlled the entire industry of Europe from attacking.

I'll grant that "Germany" invading the US would be far-fetched. However, "Europe" under Hitler's domination would be likely to do that.

I think the thing to remember here is that it is almost beyond belief that either germany or japan would ever have been able to mount a cross-ocean continental invasion. The logistical problems alone would preclude it, and there is also the fact that the US would have no trouble whatsoever creating a land army large enough to deal with any conceivable landing forces. That doesn't even count the US navy. An invasion of alaska would be much more likely, but wouldn't really achieve anything for many of the same reasons. It's like the soviets invading the usa. It was just never a realistic option for them.

 

[unmerged(6780)]

Originally posted by jayg
Why do strategy war games always have to have time limits? (1948 in this games case)
What will happen if I play as Germany and do something Hitler didnt and come 1948 I'm just gearing up for an invasion of america will the game just end and Ill never know what would of happened?
I mean if Germany had taken the UK then the USA would not have had a staging platform for the d-day landings and Germany would have had a Two front war and not a Three so presumably the war would have lasted a lot longer.
Is there a way to stop the game from ending? I would rather carry on without R&D than have the game turn itself off after a given time. If you have to give it a limit then why not 1970 or 1980 and give people a good chance to conquer the world, 1948 is too short a time realistically, any insight into this would be appreciated.

Jay
UK

It's all about, or at least a good portion of it is about, victory conditions. Most strategy games have some sort of turn/time limit so that a reasonable set of victory conditions can be crafted that make the game challenging. Especially with games covering the military genre, this becomes even more imperative, as often the only guage of victory we have is how the actual participants fared historically. To make any set of victory conditions workable, one has to, or should, come as close to the historical conditions as possible, so that the game is fun and accurate (more or less).

Don't get me wrong; games with open-ended play can be quite fun, too, but they offer a whole different experience than games where the player(s) know they only have a limited amount of time in which to accomplish their objectives. In a game like HoI, a time limit is definitely warranted, if only to reduce the fantasy element.

 

[unmerged(11849)]

Sytass' AAR showed that the game is over once the Axis is defeated, no matter how much time is left in the game. This to me is a fatal flaw as you are dependent on the AI to do well enough to keep the game going (in the AAR, it seems the German AI launched their Russian campaign way too early.) There were so many options left for the Russian player that it's a shame he couldn't continue because the German AI stunk up the joint. Sytass managed a "gamey" approach to keep the game going but it shouldn't have had to come to that.

 

[unmerged(577)]

Every place I look (see below) the game ends in 1946. Is that correct? Everyone in this thread is saying 1948 is the end date.


http://www.paradoxplaza.com/hearts.asp
http://www.heartsofiron-game.com/

 

[unmerged(11145)]

Originally posted by JoshWeber
I'd like an American Empire patch. That'd be fun. The only problem (off of the top of my head) is that they couldn't give the Texas panhandle to the Union. I believe it was split in half. I could be wrong, though.

Yeah, the mod link's in my sig. Texas is three provinces, I think, so we'd just have to give the US the whole panhandle. Such is life

 

[BiB]

1/1/1948

 

[unmerged(577)]

Hmm, so the official websites are wrong? why don't they fix them?

 

[BiB]

Better things to do, I guess.