Time for a break from this game.

[Orkonkel]

I played over 1,000 hours of Europa Universalis, but now, it's finally time for me to take a pause. I consider myself a mediocer tactician/strategist, certainly not an awful one, and yet after every patch, I can make less and less progress. Started up probably a dozen different games over the last week or so.

• Glorious Spain, soon to be lead by Enrique de Retardo - get wrecked by France post Burgundian inheritance. Fight in mountains? No prob. France will demonlish you anyway because they want to. Try again. Same thing. What the hell is going on here? Finally, third try, I get a decent start, get my French provinces. Decide to take some provinces from Portuengland. They're chums. I am the mighty Spanish tercio. Portugal's army is smaller but due to crap rolls I get routed and they chase and stackwipe. Again, no manpower, like 6 war exhaust, game over, gg, fun game.
  
• Fine. Burgundy next. Ally Austria (WTF no rivals?), Castille, and Aragon. Let them kill France for me. Transfer sieges to Aragon so I only take one province myself directly in the war, letting them get the most of the AE (this will be patched soon enough I guess, it's kind of a cheap trick). Give three provinces to Aragon that only borders me and France, eventually, they sell these provinces to me. Trade gold for expansion = success. Austria goes into interregnum, puts a guy of my dynasty on their throne, Bohemia is now emperor. I declare on Austria to force PU, only Bohemia is allied to them. Fine. I can do this. Suddenly, Lithuania joins war. Suddenly, Aragon joins war. Suddenly, Denmark joins war. People allying during wars is fine, but they shouldn't be able to get called into the war. Now, getting creampied by four great powers, when I could've probably had an enjoyable and interesting war with the original two participants. Fuck my life.
• Ok. Sweden. I Swedened a lot. Used to blob like mad. I can do this. Infantry is stronk in this one. I CAN DO THIS. Win independence war, take cores back, screw you Norway, taking stuff from you too. POWERING UP! Soon, Russialand will fear my mighty troops. Get 100 tradition general event. Woots. Two stars! Peasant uprising. 13,000 in Stockholm, no bad terrain, rebels have no general, I go there with my 11,000. War with Denmark just ended and my forcelimit ain't super great. Figure I can take on 13,000 peasant rebels still, my infantry power is stronk and I have discipline bonus. I GET DEMOLISHED. This is some badass ninja peasants. Drains the last of my manpower. Spirals into disasters. Game over. GG Paradox. Well played. Much enjoy. Would play again.
• I SEE YOU ARE TESTING ME, PARADOX. Ottoderps card activated; the pain will be immense. First game, take a unclaimed province from Austria in defensive war to release Styria; coalition instantly forms, I deal with it but king dies and 13 years regency council. Well, it's early in the game, going to restart and try spreading expansion into any direction not HRE. I take Ottoman cores + Georgia, get discovered fabricating claims on islands, suddenly Venice AND Marmadukes are in coalition against me. Their combined fleet demolishes mine and it's basically game over. Insert a new coin. So. Play it chill as fuck. Go into Levant early to get a long ass truce with Marmadukes. Build up fleet and demolishes everything in the Mediterranian. Decide to war Aragon for lands in Italy. Get greedy and 100% warscore because I am stronk at this point; instantly, -two- coalition wars start against me, each one with 100,000+ infantry and 40,000+ cavalry against my combined forces of 44,000 troops.

What the unicornsing unicorns? Did the design team figure that this game is supposed to be played by elite players only? I fight long, hard wars, and then have to back down from my claims because the repercussions of expansion far exceeds the benefits. None of the great, historical, European wars (and the following peace treaties) can be simulated in this game. The Italian Wars? Yeah, right, if France player went to war over Naples they'd end up coalitioned from Ottomans to Spain. Meanwhile, the lucky nations anvils hit hard all over Europe, removing OPMs and crumbling empires alike. Hungary? Om nom, Austria was hungry. HRE? Le Baguette need more basetax and there's plenty in Germany. England? No one cares about England. Go sit on your island.

Seriously, this game is starting to get balanced around players like DDRJake and Atwix, not around the average player who just enjoys the grand strategy genre. I don't suck at the game. I got some of the neat achievements, like the Great Khan, Jihad, Re-Reconquista, etcetera, but I don't think I'd be able to do any of them today. These days, the game just is infinitely more difficult to play for us regulars.

So. Bye.

I'll probably be back someday, but for now, this is just way too frustrating and tiresome. I play to relax and enjoy myself for a few hours (or days, or months), but when the game just makes my throbbing bulgevein go berserk, it's time for me to find something else to do. Cheers.

- OrKonkel

 

[TheGrouch91]

I dont approve that you demand that games should be dumbed down. Because that attitude is exactly what lead to all the mindnumbingly simple and stupid games the past years.

And no offense but I dont know how you can lose that badly with over 1000 hours gameplay. It is after all all a numbers game. The game tells you (mostly) exactly what to expect and you can easily plan ahead. If you take too much land you get a coalition, easy. It tells you how much AE you get. It tells you who is allied to who. Ect.

It also appears that you're giving up way too early. Like one bad turning point and you throw the game. Do you want a cakewalk or a challenge? So please, stop the whining. The game is perfectly playable if you just use some common sense and dont ragequit after the first problem that accurs.

 

[JStrayer]

I find it hard to believe you've played 1000 hours. You would have learned a long time ago that you can accept demands from rebels, or concede terms to enemies and recover in a few years. Struggling with AE after 1000 game hours is also difficult to believe as it is extremely easy to manage especially outside the HRE you are probably letting diplomats idle. Have a nice day.

 

[ceteris.paribus]

I have over 1000 hours logged in and empathize. However if this game was simpler I probably wouldn't have played it as much. In fact, I probably wouldn't have touched it after a few weeks playing after launch. This is what makes the game great and why my neighbors might hear some guy screaming some profane curses in the middle of the night.

 

[Mamluke]

you know, you can over your mouse on the AE gain counter in a peace screen to see exactly which nations get effected and more Importantly, how much negative relations they will get with you, ALWAYS check that modifier! basically, if high penalty for big nations, don't go with the peace if mediocre penalty with nations you don't care about, go for it.

......

• Ok. Sweden. I Swedened a lot. Used to blob like mad. I can do this. Infantry is stronk in this one. I CAN DO THIS. Win independence war, take cores back, screw you Norway, taking stuff from you too. POWERING UP! Soon, Russialand will fear my mighty troops. Get 100 tradition general event. Woots. Two stars! Peasant uprising. 13,000 in Stockholm, no bad terrain, rebels have no general, I go there with my 11,000. War with Denmark just ended and my forcelimit ain't super great. Figure I can take on 13,000 peasant rebels still, my infantry power is stronk and I have discipline bonus. I GET DEMOLISHED. This is some badass ninja peasants. Drains the last of my manpower. Spirals into disasters. Game over. GG Paradox. Well played. Much enjoy. Would play again.
• ........

- OrKonkel

WTF? you are telling me that your 11000 men lost to 13000 peasants?! with a good general?! that is Impossible, only way that could happen is heaving low land maintenance.

 

[FloatingOrb]

I have the opposite problem. I have to play increasingly harder starts just to have a challenge. Dude, the AI is really bloody dumb.

Now, you just need to know the tricks of the game.
Terrain matters. A lot.
You can not skimp on mil tech.
Economy is paramount. Almost more important than tech.
Treat it like a large steak. You have plenty of time to eat it all, pace yourself or you will get sick.
Keep it simple stupid. If you plan involves more than 5 steps, RNG will probably screw you. Be flexible.
Diplo rep and spy offense/defense are more important than you think. go check the wiki for exacts, but they matter a lot.

 

[eddyr]

I like to call this a rage quit...

 

[Aries666]

Sounds to me like you are applying tactics that worked several patches ago and haven't really refined or updated your strategies. Someone with 1000 should not have problems playing majors. I am playing increasingly obscure or doomed starts just to get a challenge. The game certainly shouldn't be dumbed down, that's what killed the total war series.

 

[Mattzey]

if you have 1000 hours i do not understand how you're loosing with spain and burgundy. never mind the ottomans....

 

[itsuart]

I have more than 1000 hours, but find myself less and less interested in starting grand campaign. Why? Because of high chance of rules will be drastically changed in a middle of the game maybe even at war.

 

[oblio-]

I find it hard to believe you've played 1000 hours. You would have learned a long time ago that you can accept demands from rebels, or concede terms to enemies and recover in a few years. Struggling with AE after 1000 game hours is also difficult to believe as it is extremely easy to manage especially outside the HRE you are probably letting diplomats idle. Have a nice day.

Perpetual intermediate users. Some people, even though they play a lot, don't get past an intermediate level. Either because they can't or more commonly because they don't care/want to as it's too much work.

 

[Illianor123]

I have more than 1000 hours, but find myself less and less interested in starting grand campaign. Why? Because of high chance of rules will be drastically changed in a middle of the game maybe even at war.

Don't update to the new patch till the campaign is done.

1000 hours and losing as Ottos? I think you are overestimating how "stronk" you are. Maybe you are remembering based on having a few military ideas and events from previous games and forgetting that at the beginning things are much more even.

 

[Orkonkel]

you know, you can over your mouse on the AE gain counter in a peace screen to see exactly which nations get effected and more Importantly, how much negative relations they will get with you, ALWAYS check that modifier! basically, if high penalty for big nations, don't go with the peace if mediocre penalty with nations you don't care about, go for it.



WTF? you are telling me that your 11000 men lost to 13000 peasants?! with a good general?! that is Impossible, only way that could happen is heaving low land maintenance.

No, this is exactly what happened to me. I got shitty rolls, and peasant rebels routed me. They outnumbered me by two thousand, which I guess was the deciding factor. Rebels are super strong now compared to earlier patches. In fact, they're often more competent than both your own and enemy armies for some reason. I'm obviously in the minority here thinking this is a problem, but I didn't expect a peasant revolt to utterly destroy my army. Loading the game, it was actually 12,000 vs 15,000 peasants. I actually quit the day that my army was shattered and here is a screenshot for you (I was a bit mistaken on the numbers, but it is my entire standing army from the independence war):

I like to call this a rage quit...

Yes. I was so mad. The game is completely different from how it used to be. I end up with problems I find myself incapable of dealing with, far too often problems I was unable to forsee. Like the rebels in this case. Like I said, I don't consider myself an expert at this game. I play a lot and I follow the basic formulae for success: good army composition, fight defensive battles, use good generals, stategic allies to avoid aggressive expansion, etcetera. This game has changed profoundly over the last few patches, during which I did not play particularly much. And now, trying to get back into it, I just hit a brick wall.

Sounds to me like you are applying tactics that worked several patches ago and haven't really refined or updated your strategies. Someone with 1000 should not have problems playing majors. I am playing increasingly obscure or doomed starts just to get a challenge. The game certainly shouldn't be dumbed down, that's what killed the total war series.

This game has seen continuous additions aimed at hampering expansion in ways that are not engaging, but instead encourages people to find counter-intuitive workarounds (which later gets patched away). Expanding in this game is now less about making smart choices and winning wars (which is still super easy), it's about things like 'never take a single unclaimed province in a defensive war or the HRE will have your butty', or 'ally France and let them win the game for you', or 'cancel a one-province vassal in a war to clear AE'. This is not grand strategy. I think I did the Jihad achievement in 1.4 (pre Art of War and its added provinces), and it was a huge struggle, but it was possible. Coalitions were more manageable. Rebels were more manageable. And I still had to restart several times because the Ottomans would be a major obstacle to overcome as a Muslim tech nation. I also did the Great Khan achievement pre Art of War. I did not resort to building troops in western/Ottoman cores because I did not even know it was possible until coming to the forums, and I still managed to beat up Muscowy/Lithuania before their troops started getting a huge lead in pips. Like I mentioned in my original post, I don't think I would be able to accomplish either of these two achievements with how the game functions today. It is a lot harder. I was dissatisfied and expressing my opinion. Obviously, tons of people think the game is still too easy or properly balanced now. That's fine too. I'm still going to take a step back and enjoy some Heroes of the Storm or some other game for a while.

if you have 1000 hours i do not understand how you're loosing with spain and burgundy. never mind the ottomans....

I lost my first try because inheritance happened during my war with them, and suddenly I lost Burgundy who was my ally in the war (~30,000 troops) and I couldn't beat France on my own. Not even while defending in mountains. Second time, I beat them, then declare on England. Portugal joins the war, I send my huge army against theirs, but again, due to unlucky rolls, I get routed and then stackwiped when they chase. It's really frustrating to see battles that you should win (same tech, bigger armies, favourable terrain, etc) go the wrong way because of RNG. Especially when RNG goes from 0 to 10 and the losses in shock phase during the first 50 years of gameplay just decide everything. Anyway, third attempt was going alright until the regency council. Yeah, not going to spend 13 years at speed 5 sending diplomats back and forth. As Burgundy? Things were going great. I was kicking ass. I declare war, their allies join. A year into the war, Lithuania joins on their side. A bit later. Denmark. Then Aragon. They just overwhelmed me with sheer numbers that I could not initially anticipate because they were not even allied with Austria or Bohemia. Stuff like this gets really, really annoying. And Ottomans was just a string of wars leading to coalitions. I get rebels in Georgia mountains and they eat my ducats/manpower. Last time, I wanted to start moving towards Spain early, so I made claims on Napels and attacked, taking provinces in Italy and some islands. To start moving over in that direction. Coalitions everywhere. I'll just stick to my corner of the world and leave all of western Europe alone from now on.

Perpetual intermediate users. Some people, even though they play a lot, don't get past an intermediate level. Either because they can't or more commonly because they don't care/want to as it's too much work.

Yes.

 

[Jack45]

WTF? you are telling me that your 11000 men lost to 13000 peasants?! with a good general?! that is Impossible, only way that could happen is heaving low land maintenance.

What if I told you that peasants aren't weaker than normal troops... and yes, to beat them you will need a numerical advantage.

 

[Sian]

I personally find it more interesting that you have rebel issues that early, even with a craptacular legitimacy, which at worst is an annoyance as you have a smaller supply of negative unrest.

The best way to win against Rebels is not getting them unless you're certain that you can handle them while keeping an enemy occupied

 

[Mortheim]

I'll probably be back someday, but for now, this is just way too frustrating and tiresome. I play to relax and enjoy myself for a few hours (or days, or months), but when the game just makes my throbbing bulgevein go berserk, it's time for me to find something else to do. Cheers.
- OrKonkel

Losing is fun, filthy casual.

 

[kon_11]

I played well over a 1000 hours, am not at all a good player, but I just love the whole thing. History, flavor, funny constellations, maps, maps, maps, ... maybe I'm just weird, but this game is just getting better and better.

 

[Duntan123]

Orkonkel, welcome to the club.

Used to be that you could expand without using expliots like the ones you mentioned or coalition juggling etc. The "Grand" in grand strategy is gone. You have to find DDRJake-like exploits to have a chance at any of the trickier achivements and that is simply not fun.

After every expansion it is more and more diplomat fiddling and speed 5-ing and less and less wars of expansion.

I quit after art of war....

 

[Sarvik]

Just don't try to learn the game in Ironman mode. You can use Ironman compatible settings but without actual Ironman mode you can revert back. You learn by doing mistakes, watching other players and using Wiki. Continually doing fatal mistakes in Ironman mode, quitting and starting all over is frustrating. 1000 thousand hours is not much either, I have more than double and learning new things every game. Don't give up, I started to really enjoy the game after having played that 1000 hours. Now every game is an enjoyment and I'm playing almost always Ironman, except when I want to learn or test something new.

 

[Sunspawn]

What if I told you that peasants aren't weaker than normal troops... and yes, to beat them you will need a numerical advantage.

I DO find it somewhat questionable that peasant rebels are as strong as noble rebels - the latter likely have the cash to hire and outfit troops, but peasants are just that - peasants.