We could alternatively do a small tweak so that we have both scenarios, but only with different start dates.
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By "save and reload," I mean, the player cannot actually start as Greece in 1816. He'd have to play as some other state 'till '21 and then switch over to Greece. Which is somewhat inconvenient.
Well, there was a war between Greece and the Ottomans for a decade after '21. It basicallly started in '21. As you said, this is one of the most interesting aspects of the period, and I think it'd be pretty nifty to start the campaign as Greece as soon as it's independent (I think Paradox used a similar rationale in selecting the start date for Vicky as it's precisely after Santa Anna's coup and Texas' independence).
As for the rest, what I'm getting at is that if we start in 1816, that may mean we'd be streching the game engine past its intended limits with such large-scale revolts potentially leading to ahistorical consequences (given my past experience with EU engine games). I'm not saying that it's necessarily the case and that we should exclude the possibility, but I'm skeptical.
"Small tweak" was just a joke!
Yes, the setup (specially in America - the discussed colonial revolts) would be quite different. But my idea is to make those scenarios with the only difference being the initial setup - as well as some events for the colonial revolts.
Yes, the setup (specially in America - the discussed colonial revolts) would be quite different. But my idea is to make those scenarios with the only difference being the initial setup - as well as some events for the colonial revolts.
Might I provide some counsel as one who went through the EEP and AoN scenario/mod projects?
We should develop the time extension mods, but seperate from this project. We should then coordinate all event tags, any tag adjustments(not likely this time around, at least on any great scale), and so on. One massive project will turn into a bureaucratic nightmare. Several smaller but coordinated ones remain under control. And there does not develop a tendency to have the project run crazy . Coordination is needed, compatability is needed, but doing all of it in one place is not.
On another note, we may wish to consider two startdates on the early startdate project(can we work them seperate to some extent? Internal miniforum or something?): 1816 and 1821 or 25? An early date and a date with most of the revolting nations available.
We should develop the time extension mods, but seperate from this project. We should then coordinate all event tags, any tag adjustments(not likely this time around, at least on any great scale), and so on. One massive project will turn into a bureaucratic nightmare. Several smaller but coordinated ones remain under control. And there does not develop a tendency to have the project run crazy . Coordination is needed, compatability is needed, but doing all of it in one place is not.
On another note, we may wish to consider two startdates on the early startdate project(can we work them seperate to some extent? Internal miniforum or something?): 1816 and 1821 or 25? An early date and a date with most of the revolting nations available.
You are right in one point, but, on the other hand, if we are to design events for VIP, we need to know which dates we should concentrate on. For example, if we accept 1821 as starting date, then we can work on Greek War of Independence and so on.. My point is, i think we need a little structure first. Like one start date and one end date. The variations like 1779 etc can always be added later on like you suggest.
I think starting date and ending date should reflect some character. I mean what happened in 1924 that will end the game? 1929 is a corner stone in history though. And i don't think tanks or airplanes will be much effective by 1929. Maybe we should arrange a plebicit for this
I think starting date and ending date should reflect some character. I mean what happened in 1924 that will end the game? 1929 is a corner stone in history though. And i don't think tanks or airplanes will be much effective by 1929. Maybe we should arrange a plebicit for this
I do agree that here we should just focus on the 'core' time range, and the time extensions should be separate.
Originally posted by Anibal
"Small tweak" was just a joke!
Yes, the setup (specially in America - the discussed colonial revolts) would be quite different. But my idea is to make those scenarios with the only difference being the initial setup - as well as some events for the colonial revolts.
"Initial setup" in Vicky is a TON of work.
Modding an entire scenario of pops is more work than is probably worth it for just a few extra years of gameplay.....
IMHO if you want more gameplay just play the game again.. You have so many countries to choose from.
I wish I'd read your post right the first time.
That sounds right - I hadn't considered the matter of Greek independence to closely. 1821 is better.
And David's also right, not to mention that as Dark Knight has posted in another thread, the VIP isn't for time extension. So we'd have to petition another forum or so.
And, as I said, coordination is key. One aspect of Paradox games is that the game modding practices have been refining steadily over time. I would suggest that we take this one a step further and coordinate the time extension mods with this one as to make them fully compatible but not dependent on each other. This is one thing that was missing in EU2, and it would be nice to be able to play with both time extension and VIP simultaneously. I am more than willing to coordinate such arrangements.
I suggest to start in the june 9th, 1815, (the end day of Vienne's Congress) instead of 1816.
I like the end date you suggest : october 24th, 1929 (start of Krach)
I like the end date you suggest : october 24th, 1929 (start of Krach)
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If the game starts on 1815, i'm sure there will be a way to start as Greece as a one revolting province in Morea and then make it stronger with events until 1829 when they become independent.
Now that a time extension of game is banned from V.I.P, perhaps this can evolve to become an add-on mod to V.I.P.? What do others think?
We shouldn't work on two separate time extension mods that does the same thing. I have already started researching and collecting people for a 1816 mod. If you in this thread decides on a 1816 start date, I suggest that we combine both efforts to prevent unneccessary double work.
I think it would be a good idea to have a new forum for time extension mods...otherwise things would get very messy.
There, the various efforts can coordinate.
I don't know if Our Glorious Modship would like adding more fora like that, but time extension would seem to be a fairly important thing to do. Possibly with subfora for 1920-29 and 1816-35
There, the various efforts can coordinate.
I don't know if Our Glorious Modship would like adding more fora like that, but time extension would seem to be a fairly important thing to do. Possibly with subfora for 1920-29 and 1816-35
If your just looking for tie extention can't you just mod the .eug file and change the start and finish years?
No, you would need to alter the game code as game is hardcoded to operate within certain specified years (1836-1920).
Furthermore, even if we did create a new scenario that is outside game's time, we would need to make everything new such as POPs, country files, events, etc.
If you want to capture the colonial revoltionary period, you need to take the game back to 1810, which was when the revoltuionary movement in Mexico started its independence movement.
Consideirng Spain at this point had just been conquered and essentially vazillized by a Napolen, it had a *few* problems fighting off the early independence developments.
The only place they made a nice fight over really was Peru.
I think 1810 would be enough additional time to justfy the amount of work necssary to set up a scenario. And as mentioned, it would allow for some very nice possibilities. I don't think that its terribly likely that the Spain AI will be able to hold onto its colonial possessions in the condition it will be in during this campaign.
The player might have better luck, but it will (and should) be difficult and expensive for them. It will probably be more expensive tahn the profit they would get from keeping those provinces in any case, and thus not necssarly a smart strategic move.
I'd love to see a 1810 scenario that thus gives the chance for the player to play the latin american nation of their choice from the very beggening.
Consideirng Spain at this point had just been conquered and essentially vazillized by a Napolen, it had a *few* problems fighting off the early independence developments.
The only place they made a nice fight over really was Peru.
I think 1810 would be enough additional time to justfy the amount of work necssary to set up a scenario. And as mentioned, it would allow for some very nice possibilities. I don't think that its terribly likely that the Spain AI will be able to hold onto its colonial possessions in the condition it will be in during this campaign.
The player might have better luck, but it will (and should) be difficult and expensive for them. It will probably be more expensive tahn the profit they would get from keeping those provinces in any case, and thus not necssarly a smart strategic move.
I'd love to see a 1810 scenario that thus gives the chance for the player to play the latin american nation of their choice from the very beggening.