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Hg's a bankerbtw, Oe's technology sucks =/ the promissed day is comming, the falling of Oe is at hand. keep fighting my warriors!
For the record, investment financing is something the Netherlands would gladly take advantage of. All the best to the King of Spain as he ventures out on this new... venture.
MMC, if you read this, please talk with me or Norrefeldt on ICQ. There is now the possibility of an arrangement that would resolve your complaints.
I want to raise the question of stab dow here, because it's a rather controversial move. Specifically, some GM's prohibit fake DOW's for +1 stability in the target country. Others GM's don't prohibit it, but in games where I've seen it done it's sometimes provoked criticism from other players. In my view, it's neither an exploit, nor a gamey tactic. An exploit is in my view exploiting a flaw in the programming or latency to achieve an unintended effect, such as multiple simultaneous fort building or other wierd things. A gamey move is within the normal confines of the game engine, but violently breaks the link between the simulation and reality - ie. it's something that couldn't / didn't happen in real life. For instance, stopping an armada from landing with a single ship. I don't think stab dow's break this connection, because many times throughout the time period covered by the game up to the present leaders have rallied support against external threats, real or imagined. It didn't matter if it was a real threat or a "fake" threat, as long as it was convincing. As I think of myself as a sort of illuminatus guiding my nation, secretly paying off a foreign despot to posture against me seems like a clever tactic, and something that could have happened. The foreign ruler roars, my people unite around the standard, my country stabilizes a bit, and, in the public eye, the monarch resolves the conflict through brilliant diplomacy rather than on the battlefield - none of the masses know it was all just a conspiracy to keep them down and if anyone suggests it, they hang for treason.
Anyway, that's how I think of stab dow - I don't mind allowing it, assuming you can get someone to do it, but I'd be open to limiting the circumstances in which it can be used, for instance only allowing it be used one time each time stab falls below 0 or not allowing it, if there is a lot of opposition. My stab costs are piddly anyways
MMC, if you read this, please talk with me or Norrefeldt on ICQ. There is now the possibility of an arrangement that would resolve your complaints.
I want to raise the question of stab dow here, because it's a rather controversial move. Specifically, some GM's prohibit fake DOW's for +1 stability in the target country. Others GM's don't prohibit it, but in games where I've seen it done it's sometimes provoked criticism from other players. In my view, it's neither an exploit, nor a gamey tactic. An exploit is in my view exploiting a flaw in the programming or latency to achieve an unintended effect, such as multiple simultaneous fort building or other wierd things. A gamey move is within the normal confines of the game engine, but violently breaks the link between the simulation and reality - ie. it's something that couldn't / didn't happen in real life. For instance, stopping an armada from landing with a single ship. I don't think stab dow's break this connection, because many times throughout the time period covered by the game up to the present leaders have rallied support against external threats, real or imagined. It didn't matter if it was a real threat or a "fake" threat, as long as it was convincing. As I think of myself as a sort of illuminatus guiding my nation, secretly paying off a foreign despot to posture against me seems like a clever tactic, and something that could have happened. The foreign ruler roars, my people unite around the standard, my country stabilizes a bit, and, in the public eye, the monarch resolves the conflict through brilliant diplomacy rather than on the battlefield - none of the masses know it was all just a conspiracy to keep them down
and if anyone suggests it, they hang for treason.Anyway, that's how I think of stab dow - I don't mind allowing it, assuming you can get someone to do it, but I'd be open to limiting the circumstances in which it can be used, for instance only allowing it be used one time each time stab falls below 0 or not allowing it, if there is a lot of opposition. My stab costs are piddly anyways
OE and Russia has reached a deal on Astrakhan.
IMO it's not cheating, but gamey. It's historically absolutely unheard of that one nation pays another one for DOW. It also affects the stab costs in the game, where huge empire building (with very high stab costs) is made much easier, as long as a small friendly state with little or no BB is payed for declaring phony wars every three years or so.
fraese said:[...]A gamey move is within the normal confines of the game engine, but violently breaks the link between the simulation and reality - ie. it's something that couldn't / didn't happen in real life. For instance, stopping an armada from landing with a single ship. I don't think stab dow's break this connection, because many times throughout the time period covered by the game up to the present leaders have rallied support against external threats, real or imagined. It didn't matter if it was a real threat or a "fake" threat, as long as it was convincing.
As I think of myself as a sort of illuminatus guiding my nation, secretly paying off a foreign despot to posture against me seems like a clever tactic, and something that could have happened. The foreign ruler roars, my people unite around the standard, my country stabilizes a bit, and, in the public eye, the monarch resolves the conflict through brilliant diplomacy rather than on the battlefield - none of the masses know it was all just a conspiracy to keep them down
Anyway, that's how I think of stab dow[...]
Nice one. Quite creative.
So, I guess stab costs mean nothing in your game? Civil wars never happen?
An important aspect of gaming, trying to keep your stab positive and the costs limited, dissapears if you allow fake dows for stab.
And the overall skill of players drops to negative levels.
or not allowing it, if there is a lot of opposition. My stab costs are piddly anyways
If my vote as a sub counts: I am against it.
Hey, in some professions creative thinking is rewarded... anyways, after talking with you guys I guess we'll not have stab dow in this game.
In other news, Netherlands is offering three provinces in Iceland and Greenland for sale, anticipating interest from Sweden and perhaps England. Both countries don't exactly have a lot of cash on hand right now, but payment can be on a monthly plan. It's easy to edit in a 36d loan at 1000% interest such that it pays 3 ducats a month. Interested?
In other news, Netherlands is offering three provinces in Iceland and Greenland for sale, anticipating interest from Sweden and perhaps England. Both countries don't exactly have a lot of cash on hand right now, but payment can be on a monthly plan. It's easy to edit in a 36d loan at 1000% interest such that it pays 3 ducats a month. Interested?
FAL,
As I said on ICQ, it's gamey. It's an exploit, too, as the +1 stab is supposed to represent national unity in the face of an external threat. Not a shell game with the foreign press.
The only time I've done it, in recent memory, was in TOW when Dago'd gotten one stabhit after another and he just couldn't get above -3. And even then it wasn't for pay.
As I said on ICQ, it's gamey. It's an exploit, too, as the +1 stab is supposed to represent national unity in the face of an external threat. Not a shell game with the foreign press.
The only time I've done it, in recent memory, was in TOW when Dago'd gotten one stabhit after another and he just couldn't get above -3. And even then it wasn't for pay.
Desertfoxx, if you plan to play on Thursday, please let me know. Note the earlier times.
Cheech, if you read this thread please give us a post - we'd love to have you perm England if Desertfoxx is out.
FAL will be available as a sub this Thursday.
John is taking France
Edits:
Astrakhan to OE
Franche Comte to France
Piemonte to Spain
Mantua to Spain
Munster to Spain
Kleves to Spain
Koln to Spain
English inflation reduced to 5%
English trade agreements deleted
Swedish inflation reduced by 7.5% and 2400d from treasury invested in trade
Conscription center in Veneto removed
Fortress in Veneto reduced from mighty to large
DP sliders adjusted to land 5 where needed
Let me know if I've missed anything.
Cheech, if you read this thread please give us a post - we'd love to have you perm England if Desertfoxx is out.
FAL will be available as a sub this Thursday.
John is taking France
Edits:
Astrakhan to OE
Franche Comte to France
Piemonte to Spain
Mantua to Spain
Munster to Spain
Kleves to Spain
Koln to Spain
English inflation reduced to 5%
English trade agreements deleted
Swedish inflation reduced by 7.5% and 2400d from treasury invested in trade
Conscription center in Veneto removed
Fortress in Veneto reduced from mighty to large
DP sliders adjusted to land 5 where needed
Let me know if I've missed anything.
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I'm adding CB shields on all human owned countries. BB is starting to pile up for everyone, and damnit, I want to see some wars next session!
All,
The Royal Bank of Seville has signed its first two contracts:
Holland: 2,000 Ducats, 1550-1630, Early Repayment in 1580
France: 3,000 Ducats, 1550's-1630's, Early Repayment in the 1580's
The Royal Bank of Seville has signed its first two contracts:
Holland: 2,000 Ducats, 1550-1630, Early Repayment in 1580
France: 3,000 Ducats, 1550's-1630's, Early Repayment in the 1580's
What!!??? Why is this decided this way by GM?fraese said:
I also want to know what this is about. Don't you mean 2400d (earned through minting) is removed, along with the inflation.fraese said:
Otherwise you will see a minting Russia, sitting idle to wait for GM to set it right.
Nor,
You mean you didn't approve of the Astrakahn-OE deal?
That is good news.
As far as the deflation, I'm not sure what you mean. Sweden was idle and so its deflation was cut and the ducats it minted were transferred to trade.
You mean you didn't approve of the Astrakahn-OE deal?
That is good news.
As far as the deflation, I'm not sure what you mean. Sweden was idle and so its deflation was cut and the ducats it minted were transferred to trade.
fraese said:
Busy with diplomacy HoG?
IIRC I have moved one click to land with France because I was as a sub unaware there was a land 5 rule. It would perhaps be fair to the new French perm to give him a free click as compensation.
The same counts for England if I judge the stats correctly.
Will I be subbing England tomorrow?
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All,
Having done some calculations (finally), I'm afraid I have to eliminate investment loans. They shall henceforth be known as Favored Nation Credit, reserved for countries with whom Spain has a special relationship. It is basically a kind of funding in which the creditor nation eventually returns its losses and little else. Inflation plus low interest plus lost investment opportunities plus the strengthening of competitors. It's really not feasible for non-friendlies, I'm afraid.
Therefore, the loan to France is cancelled. The loan to Holland remains in place.
The other two loan programs-War and Capital-remain in effect and every is encouraged to apply.
Having done some calculations (finally), I'm afraid I have to eliminate investment loans. They shall henceforth be known as Favored Nation Credit, reserved for countries with whom Spain has a special relationship. It is basically a kind of funding in which the creditor nation eventually returns its losses and little else. Inflation plus low interest plus lost investment opportunities plus the strengthening of competitors. It's really not feasible for non-friendlies, I'm afraid.
Therefore, the loan to France is cancelled. The loan to Holland remains in place.
The other two loan programs-War and Capital-remain in effect and every is encouraged to apply.
You told me you made "a deal to return Astrakhan"; I thought this meant I should edit it to the OE. Apparently I made a mistake. No harm, no foulNorrefeldt said:
RE: the inflation - what HG said. Sweden got dropped, we kept playing, and he was minting at the time. If you want to try the same stunt, you probably shouldn't have told us :rofl:
Anyway, joking aside, the GM loves you Norr. Maybe you'll even make the stats page next time. Want to buy Greenland?
It would be fair, I agree. Please do come sub England tomorrow.FAL said:
I didn't know Sweden was idle, that explain the vast minting.
OE and Russia have a deal, but it's not to be edited, but taken care of in game.
Russia would be very happy to get out of the information fog.
OE and Russia have a deal, but it's not to be edited, but taken care of in game.
Russia would be very happy to get out of the information fog.
Looks like france is taken now - perhaps my fault for not keeping in touch
if you need a sub then i should be around, enjoy
if you need a sub then i should be around, enjoy
cheech, you can takeover England for me - I'm mad that I've missed the last two weeks... things seem to keep coming up interfering with this game, so I think I ought to bow out such that you can find someone who can play more reliably