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Nomads (tend to explode)
Hey, you forgot Byzantine government (though this was after 3 years maybe I don't remember) which is literally designed to collapse + I actually like Nomads, I don't care if they don't last for 11 zillion years, governments don't need to be stable and eternal, I like the cut of their jib and their playstyle.
 
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To help celebrate this milestone, we've prepared a special anniversary video for you, featuring some highlights and statistics of the game, as well as a teaser for what you can expect from us later this year.
Hi @PDX-Trinexx,

What was the teaser you mentioned? I saw the Legacy of Persia Flavor Pack, but we've known about that one for quite a while... :) Was there something I missed, or was the Legacy of Persia DLC what you were referring to?
 
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Where are the ME cultures and ally orders from 2 in this anniversary?
Not to mention message settings, long-time running most upvoted game suggestion. It's been three years and still nothing more than basically "It'd be nice, but hard, and not a priority." :(

How long had Victoria 3 been out before they announced they would add message settings? A few months?
 
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Hey, you forgot Byzantine government (though this was after 3 years maybe I don't remember) which is literally designed to collapse + I actually like Nomads, I don't care if they don't last for 11 zillion years, governments don't need to be stable and eternal, I like the cut of their jib and their playstyle.
No, the issue is that "successors" all were considered Empire rank, which was irritating in how CK2 worked.
 
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3 years. Jeez. I'm not happy with this one.

3 years of ck2 was amazing to me. 3 years of ck3 and I don't even play anymore, hoping for an update that's not even announced.

Congrats devs, it is a good mile stone. To 3 more years. But hopefully to me I'll be back to this game I so want to love within 3 years!
I agree and disagree with that one. The first two years except Fate of Iberia and the Launch and first Patch of CK3 were a mess. Yes it was partially Covid, but Royal Court was a mess and Northern Lords, while popular, I see still as one of the worst Packs from a price to feature perspective. A lot of additions weren't well thought out. The Court is too static, the Feuds are undercooked, you drown in artifacts in the late game etc.. And some mechanics that would need dire overhauls are still left untouched (faiths, warfare, government types). The only good (not great but still at least a 7-8/10 pack) things were Fate of Iberia and some of the fixes in the Friends and Foes patch.

This year, I am a bit more optimistic though. T&T was the first great DLC in my honest opinion. It pretty much swallowed me and only yet I am back again with a bit more to say about the games and my wishes. Wards and Wardens though, the patch was OK, but still I see most of the even't packs as optional. It practically brought back a lot of goodwill and I hope they won't squander it again.

But for the next Major overhauls I see either Imperialism or Religion and Faith depth as a must for the Major Packs. For the Flavor Packs I would like to have some variety. Even if most players are stuck in Europe. Like after Persia, tackle Britain next, and then Tibet, and then one for the West and East Slavs, and then one for East Africa (which is still a slept on region in my honest opinion).

But yeah, I am still optimistic about CK3, espescially after Tours and Tournaments.
 
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I think, the focus tree is the best feature in Crusader Kings 3 which ended random lifestlye events of Crusader Kings 2. In Crusader Kings 2, stewardship focused player character avaragely spent 40 years to get a merchant ship event to pop up. There is 1 event Crusader Kings 2 has is new settlement invesment which is the best event in the Crusader Kings 2. Like Europa Universalis, a settlement should be expanded which reached to certain development if player character choose stewardship focus. There are so many areas to improve Crusader Kings 3.
 
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CK3 was actually the most complete and stable release Paradox had to date. While CK2 had to release such amazing features like "Muslim rulers are now playable" and "polygamy".

Things that are still missing: Sunset invasion (meme), secret societies (meh meme), Nomads (tend to explode), Republics Trade routes and China (the update you're waiting for), 700 start date (ehhhh, mite b cool).
Nah, down with memes. Adding back playable republics would be cool though.

For me personally CK3 on release was a mystery. It was clearly a polished release, containing almost everything CK2 had, but better. Yet playing was boring, I only lasted a couple hundred hours (way below other titles or CK2).
It was Tours and Tournaments that revived CK3 for me.
 
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For me personally CK3 on release was a mystery. It was clearly a polished release, containing almost everything CK2 had, but better. Yet playing was boring, I only lasted a couple hundred hours (way below other titles or CK2).
It was Tours and Tournaments that revived CK3 for me.

It definitely did not and still does not have everything CK2 had. There's still a long way to go.
 
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It definitely did not and still does not have everything CK2 had. There's still a long way to go.
Well, agree to disagree.
I'm only missing two things: trade aristocratic republics and imperial government structure (which was done quite poorly in CK2, to be honest, but it was better than nothing).
 
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Nah, down with memes. Adding back playable republics would be cool though.

For me personally CK3 on release was a mystery. It was clearly a polished release, containing almost everything CK2 had, but better. Yet playing was boring, I only lasted a couple hundred hours (way below other titles or CK2).
It was Tours and Tournaments that revived CK3 for me.
It definitely did not and still does not have everything CK2 had. There's still a long way to go.
Well, agree to disagree.
I'm only missing two things: trade aristocratic republics and imperial government structure (which was done quite poorly in CK2, to be honest, but it was better than nothing).
Things CK2 had that CK3 does not have:
Unique Muslim characteristics like Open inheritance and Decadence
Controllable allies
College of Cardinals and Papal elections
More culture- and title-specific flavor events
Playable Merchant Republics, and all the various systems that entailed, including trading posts
Hindu caste system
Charlemagne and family story events
Nomads, and all the various systems that entailed
Silk Road with trading posts
Tributaries
The council system from Conclave, and a more comprehensive system of laws and passing laws
NAPs _and_ alliances, rather than just alliances
Creatable mercenary bands, and the ability to send children to train with mercenary bands (not just the Varangian Guard, which is on both games now)
A developed system for illnesses and their spread, including hospitals, going into seclusion, and various events
Societies, secret and normal, and lots of content related to them (events, artifacts, traits, abilities, decisions, modifiers, etc.)
China, with various boons and drawbacks resulting from interactions with China
Bloodlines (no, legacies are not the same thing)
Swaying and antagonizing as separate actions with a significant number of events that could give positive and negative effects for each one, highly dependent on circumstances, and not just as schemes among others like in CK3
Sainthood
Coronations
More succession systems (Open, Eldership...)
Aztec invasions, with events and their own culture and religion
More varied forms of adventurers
Viceroyalties
Prosperity system
Expanding the number of holdings in provinces
The ledger
MESSAGE SETTINGS!!!
Heretics and inquisition
Immortality event chain, and follow-up events
Silly events that weren't just silly, but had a real effect on gameplay: bears, cats, horses, and follow-up events

Fortunately the more controversial of these could often be toggled on or off. For example, I usually turned off secret religious cults. I know many people turned off immortality and silly events because they preferred a more realistic medieval simulator.




Things CK2 had that CK3 also has in a way, but the two do very differently:
CK2 plots tended to execute quickly or not depending on a variety of factors - in CK3 we kind of have the same system, but it's just a % for progress and plots can't be faster than 10 months.
Not everything was packed into the scheme system in CK2, so the resources of a great empire were actually sufficient try to seduce someone and sway someone else at the same time without needing to develop the requisite perks for an extra scheme slot. ;)
Religions/faiths - both games have them, but CK2 religions felt much more different and playing two different religions could feel like entirely different experiences. In CK3 they all feel very similar, despite the high level of customizability (yes, I know this is subjective).
Looting/raiding - I much preferred the CK2 system, though that is very much influenced by message settings. In CK2 you could set it so you were notified and the game paused when you were done looting a province. In CK3 you better be on top of things and be ready to pause yourself if need be. If you forget about it you may return to it a year later and find your merry band of raiders has been standing around doing nothing for a while, possibly draining you of funds and suffering attrition.
The hook system - CK2 had favors, CK3 has hooks. The hook system is much more developed and, I find, overall superior to CK2's.




Things CK3 has that CK2 didn't have:
The new cultural system - While it still largely lacks flavor IMO, I have to admit that this system with Traditions, Ethos, etc is brilliant, and much better than what CK2 had.
The throne room - I dislike many of the events, and I find the graphics to be a waste of resources, but I think amenities, splendor, court types, etc are great additions that give you a chance to customize your gameplay experience without taking anything away from it.
Writing - in CK2 the writing improved a lot toward later DLCs. In CK3 I find it's the other way around. When CK3 was first released I was impressed by the high level of writing in many events. As more and more events were released, the quality seemed to decrease, and often we just got a lot more puns, fart jokes, and the like. Sometimes it honestly feels like playing Runescape, where they try to make every event packed full of silly humor, as if it were a crime to write something without a pun or joke every few sentences. :) Now this suits the Runescape setting, but IMO it doesn't really suit the CK3 setting. Yes, this is also highly subjective. :)
Legacies and renown - A great way to make dynasties matter as well as offer actual game-technical effect. A great system.
A more developed system for congenital traits - Another great addition to the CK2 system of "Congenital traits have X% (usually 15%) chance of being inherited no matter what. This is the entirety of the system." It does lend itself to creating overpowered characters, but only with serious player effort, and this is more a matter of fine-tuning the values of numbers involved rather than an inherent flaw of the system.


--------------------

That's a big list, but it's not exhaustive. I can't remember every feature of neither CK2 nor CK3. :)

Now, we can argue which of these things we would want back, which ones were good or not, and so on. And we can argue about which game is better, or whose features we prefer. But to say that CK3 had pretty much everything CK2 had is to betray a lack of understanding of what really was in CK2 (or perhaps having just forgotten about it).
 
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Things CK3 has that CK2 didn't have:
The new cultural system - While it still largely lacks flavor IMO, I have to admit that this system with Traditions, Ethos, etc is brilliant, and much better than what CK2 had.
The throne room - I dislike many of the events, and I find the graphics to be a waste of resources, but I think amenities, splendor, court types, etc are great additions that give you a chance to customize your gameplay experience without taking anything away from it.
Writing - in CK2 the writing improved a lot toward later DLCs. In CK3 I find it's the other way around. When CK3 was first released I was impressed by the high level of writing in many events. As more and more events were released, the quality seemed to decrease, and often we just got a lot more puns, fart jokes, and the like. Sometimes it honestly feels like playing Runescape, where they try to make every event packed full of silly humor, as if it were a crime to write something without a pun or joke every few sentences. :) Now this suits the Runescape setting, but IMO it doesn't really suit the CK3 setting. Yes, this is also highly subjective. :)
Legacies and renown - A great way to make dynasties matter as well as offer actual game-technical effect. A great system.
A more developed system for congenital traits - Another great addition to the CK2 system of "Congenital traits have X% (usually 15%) chance of being inherited no matter what. This is the entirety of the system." It does lend itself to creating overpowered characters, but only with serious player effort, and this is more a matter of fine-tuning the values of numbers involved rather than an inherent flaw of the system.
Whoa, I don’t see the struggle mechanic from FOI or Tours and Tournaments in this list, did I miss them? They’re such huge additions that their omission in this section makes your summary imbalanced, imo. ;)

(I haven’t played with W&W enough to evaluate its impact on my gameplay, but as far as I know, it too is new. I stopped playing CK2 maybe halfway through its development due to factors unrelated to the game, so I don’t know for sure, but I didn’t see you mention anything comparable in CK2.)

It’s fine to prefer CK2, but not really fair to the devs to make an exhaustive list of CK2 features but leave out such significant CK3 features. I know you said you can’t remember everything, but these are important! :) I’m sure other people can name more. Me, I’m groggy from insufficient sleep.
 
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Just wanna say duke of wessex in 869 still has 1 tiny vassal and everything else is given to him because history files are not finished, this is a common occurance in 869 with several rulers having +10 countires.
 
I dont know if because I’m getting old (34 years old) but I found this game 1 week ago and have around 300 hours already. I just can’t stop playing it ! I love to read , plan and control so this game is perfect for me.

I wish I knew about this master piece before. I’m planning to go back to college to study history and one of the big reason was the game. I felt I want to learn more and more.

Thank you paradox and keep the good work !!!
 
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Just wanna say duke of wessex in 869 still has 1 tiny vassal and everything else is given to him because history files are not finished, this is a common occurance in 869 with several rulers having +10 countires.

Isn’t that something that had been going on since 2?
 
Bloodlines (no, legacies are not the same thing)
Yes, they are.
Prosperity system
It's called "development".
Expanding the number of holdings in provinces
Nope. Hard-coded. It's a deliberate nerf.

Primogeniture was nerfed. Tech advancement was nerfed. Playing tall was nerfed. Domain size was nerfed. Artifacts were nerfed. Getting showered with free stats was nerfed. Deleting titles was nerfed. Realm laws being easy was nerfed. All RNG from CK2 was replaced with progress bars - sieges, religious and cultural conversions, plots, lifestyle traits progress, stress gain. CK2 is an objectively easier game. In fact, Paradox just nerfed Domain limit again.

There are only two reasons to join Societies, and it's the Hermetic Society for easy cures from Depression and Stressed, easy obscene stat-boosting books, and Tier 4 gear that doesn't require you to be an Emperor, have 2k gold and be lucky enough for that RNG event to fire, and the Devil Worshippers for the meme baby Satan with obscenely good stats and traits, and praying the cancer away. If Paradox maintains the attitude of 'Git Gud', then neither of these are going to be in, and nobody cares about the rest, making the entire system just useless bloat.
 
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All RNG from CK2 was replaced with progress bars - sieges, religious and cultural conversions, plots, lifestyle traits progress, stress gain. CK2 is an objectively easier game. In fact, Paradox just nerfed Domain limit again.

I'd argue progress bars make it a lot easier, you know exactly when things finish.

CK3 is way easier than CK2. You cannot honestly say that it's an objective truth that CK3 is harder, what are you on?

Side note; I think I just got murdered for the first time in 150 hours of CK3, you'd routinely get murdered in CK2 if you didn't have a grasp of the situation. The AI does not punish you at all in CK3.
 
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Yes, they are.
Legacies and bloodlines are not the same thing. Legacies are dynasty-based. Bloodlines are not. That alone is a significant difference. Saying that they are the same is objectively wrong.




It's called "development".
Not the same thing either.




Nope. Hard-coded. It's a deliberate nerf.
Of course it's deliberate. All the differences are deliberate. It's not like they tried to put in message settings and accidentally ended up with the throne room instead, heh.




Primogeniture was nerfed. Tech advancement was nerfed. Playing tall was nerfed. Domain size was nerfed. Artifacts were nerfed. Getting showered with free stats was nerfed. Deleting titles was nerfed. Realm laws being easy was nerfed. All RNG from CK2 was replaced with progress bars - sieges, religious and cultural conversions, plots, lifestyle traits progress, stress gain. CK2 is an objectively easier game. In fact, Paradox just nerfed Domain limit again.
CK3 is a lot easier than CK2. High stats are a lot more predominant in CK3 than in CK2. Don't think I've ever seen a character in CK2 with Learning 60. :D And I know for sure I've never seen a CK2 character who has the Genius, Strong, and Attractive traits unless they were pre-generated. I can't count the number of CK3 characters with Genius, Herculean, and Beautiful that I managed to spawn.

As @Moulton pointed out above progress bars generally make the games easier. And as he also says, being targeted by murder plots was a lot more common in CK2.




There are only two reasons to join Societies, and it's the Hermetic Society for easy cures from Depression and Stressed, easy obscene stat-boosting books, and Tier 4 gear that doesn't require you to be an Emperor, have 2k gold and be lucky enough for that RNG event to fire, and the Devil Worshippers for the meme baby Satan with obscenely good stats and traits, and praying the cancer away. If Paradox maintains the attitude of 'Git Gud', then neither of these are going to be in, and nobody cares about the rest, making the entire system just useless bloat.
Sorry to say, but you don't appear to be very familiar with CK2 societies if that's what you think. :(




Whoa, I don’t see the struggle mechanic from FOI or Tours and Tournaments in this list, did I miss them? They’re such huge additions that their omission in this section makes your summary imbalanced, imo. ;)

(I haven’t played with W&W enough to evaluate its impact on my gameplay, but as far as I know, it too is new. I stopped playing CK2 maybe halfway through its development due to factors unrelated to the game, so I don’t know for sure, but I didn’t see you mention anything comparable in CK2.)

It’s fine to prefer CK2, but not really fair to the devs to make an exhaustive list of CK2 features but leave out such significant CK3 features. I know you said you can’t remember everything, but these are important! :) I’m sure other people can name more. Me, I’m groggy from insufficient sleep.
I'm also sure that others can think of more. If you and I weren't groggy from sleep (yes, me too atm :D ) I'm sure we could come up with more if we spent some time thinking about it as well. :)

My point was to rebut the claim that CK3 had everything at release that CK2 had, which I think I did quite conclusively. As I pointed out, it's fine to prefer CK3 and think it has better features. but it's false to say that it had every feature CK2 had.

As for the educational system, I haven't played W&W, so I can't make an exact comparison. CK2 did get an improved education system with Conclave (yes, I forgot to include some of the important features of CK2 as well - it wasn't one-sided ;) ), but if it's better, worse, or just different from W&W I couldn't tell you.
 
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Just wanna say duke of wessex in 869 still has 1 tiny vassal and everything else is given to him because history files are not finished, this is a common occurance in 869 with several rulers having +10 countires.
England didn't even have feudalism then but they shoehorned it in because the game is a feudal simulator. The lack of vassals there is probably more realistic to be honest.