Three reasons why Granada deserves more love than Byzantium!

[Centuria]

This thread is more of a ''We like Granada, perhaps give it some love'' than ''gib andalusian phoenix''. A unit pack or one or two events dont really fall under ''Impossible to Implement'', imho.

And devs are people too. They take part in discussions like any other forum user, doesnt mean that they are wasting their time or something.

 

[Holomanga]

Byzantium: Romans
Granada: Not Romans

Q.E.D.

 

[Alliegorical]

Byzantium: Greeks
Granada: Not Romans

Q.E.D.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Dutchman251]

I DON'T think that Granada should get overpowered events like Sweden. Just some conquest missions with a story, and some events when conquering certain important provinces. It doesn't need overpowered stuff to succeed. Only the reward on succeeding is rather meagre.
The only significant buff I would like, is a western focus option on Madrid/Saragossa, because that's what anyone in eastern Europe gets, too.

 

[Oddb@ll]

The devs are schizophrenic - they switch between which matters more according to what suits them.

Google it.

I did. And I will end this discussion right here since you cannot abstain from insults.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

This has been discussed for as long as this game has been out. Basing arguments on historical correctness is just plain wrong, as stated by the devs. Gameplay is always prioritized.

And what does dolt mean, is it an insult?

Yes, he was uselessly insulting you.

He is absolutely correct that the devs claim of basing arguments of gameplay > history is overtly false. Numerous implementations would never have happened if they held themselves to that standard. They really do change from mechanic to mechanic, area to area, whimsically rather based on no discernibly consistent criteria.

Muscovy and BYZ are arbitrarily buffed far beyond their 1444 strength on the board. Timurids are trashed beyond any credible state, are a horde for some reason, and have had tons of cores they should have removed while Persia has pretend cores from nowhere in Iran.

What gameplay purpose did adding 40+ years of doing nothing in the new world serve? The arbitrary and poorly implemented taking province restrictions? another 8+ things I could mention?

 

[Sunspawn]

I DON'T think that Granada should get overpowered events like Sweden. Just some conquest missions with a story, and some events when conquering certain important provinces. It doesn't need overpowered stuff to succeed. Only the reward on succeeding is rather meagre.
The only significant buff I would like, is a western focus option on Madrid/Saragossa, because that's what anyone in eastern Europe gets, too.

I think that Muslim tech nations should all have their own WF decision. Toledo/Madrid, Milan, (Wien, Prague), etc... being the WF provinces.

 

[Byzantines17]

Byzantines aside, starting in 1444 as opposed to 1492 allows for different outcomes in the 100 Years War, gives the New World states (if human controlled) time to actually do something to avoid getting inevitably smashed by Spain, does give time for Byzantine related lulz (which, tbf, I much appreciated), allows for the finishing of the Reconquista, etc. I suppose it depends on whether you want a historical simulator where things generally go the same, like HOI tends to be (depending on who you play as), or something with more range for alt-history.

Incidentally, do agree with you that the recent patches that have made conquest, especially in Europe, arbitrarily more difficult are silly. It's a conquest game, and having a coalition immediately form upon taking two provinces in Italy doesn't fit the gameplay or historical perspectives of how the game should be.

 

[Grand Historian]

Except it is still miles ahead of how it should be in terms of starting position.

If Paradox made Byzantium Catholic and Morea a vassal at start - like it historically was - the catastrophe that would befall the forums would be of unimaginable proportions.

I think that Muslim tech nations should all have their own WF decision. Toledo/Madrid, Milan, (Wien, Prague), etc... being the WF provinces.

I wouldn't mind this, but an Iranian tech group should probably get thrown in as well (resolves Timurids being a horde for some reason and removes the silliness of Baluchistan being as technologically advanced as Morocco).

 

[Reverend Belial]

The Solomids in Ethiopia claim descent from King Solomon (10th century BC). Whether that's actually true or not is open for discussion, but historians have at least verified that it dates back to the 7th century AD, so that's pretty old. But on the other hand, they're not exactly in any existential danger in 1444.

According to Wikipedia the Katochs are the oldest royal dynasty on the planet

 

[hud15]

i agree that granada can be a very good nation for ahistorical playthroughs,maybe more than bizantium( bizantophiles plz dont kill me) ,but the idea of rebuild the roman empire is still more atractive than a re reconquista ,despite the obvious dificulty and fun of a granadan gameplay.

 

[AndreasPhokas]

I do think it'd be nifty to give Madurai its own ideas especially if katoch the only dynasty in the game which is potentially older than Madurai's gets a set! help educate people!

I think India(and china...and southeast asia) need a giant content expansion to make playing in those regions funner. flavor events etc etc.

India isn't to bad but it needs something for the Maratha revolt, potentially a rajputana tag(I love playing mewar and uniting the rajputs) and something that breaks up the Islamic sultanate hugbox(Maratha revolt?)

 

[Sunspawn]

I do think it'd be nifty to give Madurai its own ideas especially if katoch the only dynasty in the game which is potentially older than Madurai's gets a set! help educate people!

I think India(and china...and southeast asia) need a giant content expansion to make playing in those regions funner. flavor events etc etc.

India isn't to bad but it needs something for the Maratha revolt, potentially a rajputana tag(I love playing mewar and uniting the rajputs) and something that breaks up the Islamic sultanate hugbox(Maratha revolt?)

Only after they fix Japan.

 

[hashinshin]

Personally I find idea groups often decide what I'm willing to play. Byzantium has outrageous ideas, and is therefore often fun to get going. Granada has ehhh ideas, therefore even once you get them going it's not that amazing.

If some of the other fallen empires had interesting idea sets I'd be willing to slog it through for them, and it might even make multiplayer more interesting. For example: Qing have amazing ideas so people are often willing to slog through their incredibly random prone to failure start that then has to use chinese tech (bleck) just to play them. Brandenburg is pretty much king of small start yet amazing ideas, and they're in EVERY SINGLE game.

Give events/missions/cores/ideas/etc. to smaller countries and I bet people would even slog through the crap in multiplayer for them.

 

[hashinshin]

i agree that granada can be a very good nation for ahistorical playthroughs,maybe more than bizantium( bizantophiles plz dont kill me) ,but the idea of rebuild the roman empire is still more atractive than a re reconquista ,despite the obvious dificulty and fun of a granadan gameplay.

I think more so than anything this is what it comes down to. You're not playing a Byzantium reconqusita, you're playing a Roman Empire game. Likewise, Granada isn't going to restore the Caliphate, they're just... reconquering Spain. It's less grand.

 

[AndreasPhokas]

Only after they fix Japan.

I will agree japan needs fixed. asia as a whole needs love ala divine wind for eu3.

India is in a good spot just needs a few Nations with their own NIs and not apart of a group(Mysore imo is one of the biggest ones followed by Madurai), a better Maratha revolt to help break up the Islamic sultanate hugbox and a rajputana formible.

China needs a whole lotta love, a way to somehow speed up the unification of china, and japan needs to be caught up to the rest of the game mecanics wise. japan has a lot of flavor it just seemingly gets ignored when the rest of the game gets updated.

SE asia needs flavor, the area is just bland, taungu needs some flavor events(for those who don't know they ruled a pretty large empire in the region), Islamic events to convert ternate and tidore. Also the phillipenes need to have a few nations there at the start as well(not sure on their religion but give them Islamic conversion events....as well as native Filipino names, iirc they're all Islamic names, iirc they still used their native names or atleast partial native names)

 

[Grand Historian]

Personally I find idea groups often decide what I'm willing to play. Byzantium has outrageous ideas, and is therefore often fun to get going. Granada has ehhh ideas, therefore even once you get them going it's not that amazing.

The only thing truly exceptional the Byzantine ideas have are the really quick conversion, low unrest, and incredible synergy with Religious and Orthodox. Everything else is okay or otherwise unremarkable.

Granada's NI's, on the other hand, are incredible and arguably on par with Castile's.

 

[Grand Historian]

I will agree japan needs fixed. asia as a whole needs love ala divine wind for eu3.

India is in a good spot just needs a few Nations with their own NIs and not apart of a group(Mysore imo is one of the biggest ones followed by Madurai), a better Maratha revolt to help break up the Islamic sultanate hugbox and a rajputana formible.

Maybe the Maratha (and Dutch) revolt could be made a disaster? Mysore Ideas would also be really good, I'm surprised they haven't gotten anything yet.

China needs a whole lotta love, a way to somehow speed up the unification of china, and japan needs to be caught up to the rest of the game mecanics wise. japan has a lot of flavor it just seemingly gets ignored when the rest of the game gets updated.

Confucianism needs mechanics (Mandate of Heaven has great potential for this), but otherwise China is actually pretty decent. Unifying China shouldn't be an easy or quick task.

Japan... Well, we all know Japan.

SE asia needs flavor, the area is just bland, taungu needs some flavor events(for those who don't know they ruled a pretty large empire in the region), Islamic events to convert ternate and tidore. Also the phillipenes need to have a few nations there at the start as well(not sure on their religion but give them Islamic conversion events....as well as native Filipino names, iirc they're all Islamic names, iirc they still used their native names or atleast partial native names)

Islamic conversion or conquest shouldn't be forced or guaranteed. If Hindus and Animists regain enough ground it should go the other way.

 

[Chief of Staff]

IMO Madurai is underappreciated as a similar endeavor to Granada or Byzantium. The Pandyas easily the oldest dynasty in the game (perhaps with the exception of the Katochs?) at the start and has been reduced to just an opm at the southern tip of India that doesnt even control its old capital (though they do start with a bunch of cores on Vijayanagar.

Madurai started out as OPM in 1444? Interesting... usually, when I discovered India, I almost always found Madurai being still around and was more than just an OPM. Must be quite some luck they had.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Madurai started out as OPM in 1444? Interesting... usually, when I discovered India, I almost always found Madurai being still around and was more than just an OPM. Must be quite some luck they had.

They start with cores on VJ land and VJ has events that spawn a ton of separatist rebels, so they can gain traction if the Bahmanis buddies win the opening.