Three reasons why Granada deserves more love than Byzantium!

[Rabid]

IMO Madurai is underappreciated as a similar endeavor to Granada or Byzantium. The Pandyas easily the oldest dynasty in the game (perhaps with the exception of the Katochs?) at the start and has been reduced to just an opm at the southern tip of India that doesnt even control its old capital (though they do start with a bunch of cores on Vijayanagar.

Maybe you should give them some cool NIs with some history flavour in there so people learn about them?

I've looked at those guys a few times due to the cores but like most of the 'generic' Indian NI states they come over as kind of boring...

And while we're here please give us some way to use the Marathi ideas from a 1444 start or at least a formation event etc ^^

 

[Tufto]

Charming.

Well, there's something faintly revolting about how the Byzantines are idolised by the denizens of the forum. It goes far beyond a mere appreciation of history and into something extremely tedious and silly.

EDIT: These downvotes are amusingly informative .

 

[Ameron]

Well, all this non-ironic fetishising of history irritates me. There's something faintly revolting about how the Byzantines are idolised by the denizens of the forum. It goes far beyond a mere appreciation of history and into something extremely tedious and silly.

This, in a thread whose title is "Three reasons why Granada deserves more love than Byzantium!", sounds a bit funny, on the other hand.

 

[Tufto]

This, in a thread whose title is "Three reasons why Granada deserves more love than Byzantium!", sounds a bit funny, on the other hand.

True but that's a much more isolated example. The Byzantophiles are practically a cult on this forum, and woe betide the poster who dares suggest that they were no more exceptional than many other polities in history, or that the special attention lavished upon them is entirely undeserved. The entire start date was built around a desire to pander to them, for goodness' sake.

 

[Grand Historian]

True but that's a much more isolated example. The Byzantophiles are practically a cult on this forum, and woe betide the poster who dares suggest that they were no more exceptional than many other polities in history, or that the special attention lavished upon them is entirely undeserved. The entire start date was built around a desire to pander to them, for goodness' sake.

Not exactly. 1444 also offers the chance to win the HYW as England, preserve the crumbling Timurid Empire, and keep together the Kalmar Union - amongst other alternate scenarios. The reason why it seems like it's built around Byzantium is, simply because, that Byzantophiles love playing Byzantium and Byzantophobes want the date moved to 1453 to troll them.

That said, yes, Byzantophiles are silly, but so are people who dislike Byzantium for the sole purpose of trolling them (and if we're going to have a scenario where you can keep Granada from falling, it's only fair to have a scenario where you can keep Byzantium from falling).

 

[Tufto]

Not exactly. 1444 also offers the chance to win the HYW as England, preserve the crumbling Timurid Empire, and keep together the Kalmar Union - amongst other alternate scenarios. The reason why it seems like it's built around Byzantium is, simply because, that Byzantophiles love playing Byzantium and Byzantophobes want the date moved to 1453 to troll them.

Didn't one of the devs say that the reason they had 1444 rather than 1453 was so people could play as Byzantium?

That said, yes, Byzantophiles are silly, but so are people who dislike Byzantium for the sole purpose of trolling them (and if we're going to have a scenario where you can keep Granada from falling, it's only fair to have a scenario where you can keep Byzantium from falling).

I'm not endorsing the OP's views, nor do I dislike Byzantium. I just don't really think any small state which died early in the time period should have extra-special attention lavished upon it.

But, I suppose more content is better than less content, so you're probably right.

 

[Grand Historian]

Didn't one of the devs say that the reason they had 1444 rather than 1453 was so people could play as Byzantium?

I think it was more along the lines of them realizing the fanclub would cause a bit of a storm if Byzantium wasn't added, so 1444 was chosen the date so Byzantium could be included, amongst other factors (there are multiple other dates that could have been thrown in where Byzantium could be included, but in the immediate aftermath of Varna isn't exactly Byz-friendly). I actually think it's the ideal date in terms of offering alternate scenarios.

 

[Grand Historian]

I wont argue influence but the Pandyas date back some centuries bc. That said its not really clear how closely related they are to the guys you see in India in the game. There was really a number of lords in this province (and more than one Pandya branch even).

Maybe Madurai could get an event dealing with the other branches?

 

[Oddb@ll]

The whole "Byzantium receives a lot of attention" is a false claim. Or kind of false at least. Most of the attention Byz gets is negative in the form of nerfs. There hasn't really been any content added since purple phoenix, has there? Nor has there been any buffs or statements from the devs along the lines of "we're adjusting X in order to make it easier for Byzantium in the next patch".

 

[Sunspawn]

The whole "Byzantium receives a lot of attention" is a false claim. Or kind of false at least. Most of the attention Byz gets is negative in the form of nerfs. There hasn't really been any content added since purple phoenix, has there? Nor has there been any buffs or statements from the devs along the lines of "we're adjusting X in order to make it easier for Byzantium in the next patch".

Except it is still miles ahead of how it should be in terms of starting position.

 

[Oddb@ll]

Except it is still miles ahead of how it should be in terms of starting position.

ok, so they should remove features? What would it take to appease you?

 

[Sunspawn]

ok, so they should remove features? What would it take to appease you?

Not features you dolt, it is far stronger than it historically was at that time.

 

[Oddb@ll]

Not features you dolt, it is far stronger than it historically was at that time.

This has been discussed for as long as this game has been out. Basing arguments on historical correctness is just plain wrong, as stated by the devs. Gameplay is always prioritized.

And what does dolt mean, is it an insult?

 

[Sunspawn]

This has been discussed for as long as this game has been out. Basing arguments on historical correctness is just plain wrong, as stated by the devs. Gameplay is always prioritized.

And what does dolt mean, is it an insult?

The devs are schizophrenic - they switch between which matters more according to what suits them.

Google it.

 

[Centuria]

Maybe a ''Fallen Empires'' content pack would be a good idea. Granada, Mongolia, Madurai and Mali

 

[kociakos]

I will just post this.

Follow the rules and post a suggestion in the suggestion forums... get ignored.
Break the rules and post a suggestion in the general forums ... get a response.

And as per many of the suggestion threads that end up in general, I'm going to say that I posted in the suggestion forum first but got ignored.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-ironic-nature-of-paradox-forums.911539/

@Trin Tragula @DDRJake

I don't understand why paradox devs are helping such a thread to reach more people, that will just end on a never ending dispute. Thanks to your responses people will look here just because a paradox dev has replied. So what about that thread that I have linked? have you forgot about it in just a week?

 

[Freudia]

I will just post this.



https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-ironic-nature-of-paradox-forums.911539/

@Trin Tragula @DDRJake

I don't understand why paradox devs are helping such a thread to reach more people, that will just end on a never ending dispute. Thanks to your responses people will look here just because a paradox dev has replied. So what about that thread that I have linked? have you forgot about it in just a week?

To be fair, this thread really isn't a suggestion for the game or anything. It's a thread to the players and the devs are commenting on it more or less as players, just with a different perspective.

 

[Alliegorical]

IMO Madurai is underappreciated as a similar endeavor to Granada or Byzantium. The Pandyas easily the oldest dynasty in the game (perhaps with the exception of the Katochs?) at the start and has been reduced to just an opm at the southern tip of India that doesnt even control its old capital (though they do start with a bunch of cores on Vijayanagar.

The Solomids in Ethiopia claim descent from King Solomon (10th century BC). Whether that's actually true or not is open for discussion, but historians have at least verified that it dates back to the 7th century AD, so that's pretty old. But on the other hand, they're not exactly in any existential danger in 1444.

 

[Trin Tragula]

I don't understand why paradox devs are helping such a thread to reach more people, that will just end on a never ending dispute. Thanks to your responses people will look here just because a paradox dev has replied. So what about that thread that I have linked? have you forgot about it in just a week?

Dev participation in discussions is not limited to the suggestions forum and isnt intended to be as far as I know.
If you search for my previous posts you'll find I direct suggestions to that forum. You'll also find plenty of replies in the actual suggestions forum. I tend to limit replies to things that fall within areas I can implement however.

 

[kociakos]

Dev participation in discussions is not limited to the suggestions forum and aren't intended to be as far as I know.
If you search for my previous posts you'll find I direct suggestions to that forum. You'll also find plenty of replies in the actual suggestions forum. I tend to limit replies to things that fall within areas I can implement however.

Of course it's not, but I think that you have helped a thread that is rather impossible to implement (a dlc for granada like american dream or the purple phoenix). You have just started a fight between byzantinophiles and byzantinophobes - thats it, and in my opinion devs shouldn't get part in such fights. Just a humble opinion.