Three questions please?

[stevep]

Guys

Damn finger problems. Meant to cancel and hit create by mistake. Since I managed to forget the other two points: Please ignore the reference to the other two questions.

Resumed playing, having a go at Russia in v1.10 with normal setting - having struggled too much on hard. Thinking on three points, all hopefully short so putting them into one thread to avoid too many threads.

1) I think there was something in a recent thread that the presence of a Garrison unit reduced attrition from neighbouring hostile units. Is this accurate and does it affect all units in the province or just those in the same unit as it?

 

[Pang Bingxun]

A formation cannot move if it contains a unit that cannot move. Usually that is a garrission unit, but locked units may apply aswell. I have not tested that. A land formation that cannot move does not suffer hostile front attrition. At the front between germany and france during the phoney war this saves some manpower, but it is of relevance for any static defence.

 

[stevep]

Pang

OK thanks. Since I normally see my front line forces forced to retreat, but hold the line by replacing them with others that doesn't sound practical for me. Can't afford to lose a full 12 div stack. Anyway worth a try asking.

Overnight have thought over my other questions and come up with more than two others.

2) I tend to rely on holding a line with forces replacing others as loss of org means they retreat. As such re-orging units is very useful. Often use the official who gives +20% to this for instance. One otrher thing I do is have provinces just behind the front built up to 200% to speed this up as well. However thinking, is re-orging a factor of the province infra level, the ESE of the province or both? Might have been wasting resources if its only the ESE that matters.

3) In the past I was certain I read that it was best to mix Arm and Mot units to get a balance of hard and soft but more recently people seem to argue its best to keep them separate. Have tended to have my Arm corps with a single Arm div and 2 Mot divs but is it better to keep them separate?

4) Also noticed that are some of the crossings to islands seasonally restricted? For instance you can get to Zealand and Bornholm without needing transports but the 1st time I sought to take Sicily, while the command was accepted, after the delay of several days before the attack when it nothing happened. Tried this several times in increasing frustration then when spring came it suddenly worked. Hence my theory it is linked to the seasons but would be good if anyone could confirm this please?

5) Normally I occupy Latvia and Estonia but leave Lithuania as a buffer as Germany never seems to either invade it or bring it into the Axis. In the current game there have been some non-standard things such as the Czechs fighting in 38 and Germany immediately invading Poland despite them conceding Danzig and the corridor but I also notice Germany hasn't annexed Memel from Lithuania. Is this likely to affect whether Lithania stays neutral in which case, amphibious landings aside the northern part of the line is even more secure.

Must admit I'm tempted to possibly occupy it anyway some time in 1940 - at the start of that year currently - as that would remove any uncertainty and also it has some useful resources, especially since the Lithuanians have kindly built up their marsh capital up to 150%+ infra which would make it easier to hold and even more profitable.

For clarification I was never quite certain about how the historical Soviet occupation of the Baltic states was triggered so after a few games went for the early occupation of the northern two and leaving Lithuania as a buffer.

Thanks to anyone who can offer any advice

Steve

 

[sam73]

Here you have couple of answers

3) The combined arms bonus changed from HOI2 to AOD. In the former, the bonus was given to corps where the ratio of "hard" to "soft" divisions was between 1/3 to 2/3. So the typical way to get it was to make a corps of 1 Arm + 2 Mot or 2 Arm + 1 Mot. AOD changed that so the combined arms bonus is applied to the division itself, depending on its softness after brigades are considered.

4) I am not aware of seasonal restrictions, but the presence of enemy fleets prevents crossing across straights. So it is likely that there was an undetected enemy fleet in the relevant see area, preventing your crossing until it moved out. Next time you can send some planes on an anti-shipping mission to try and detect the fleet, so you at least know what is preventing the crossing.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

2) I tend to rely on holding a line with forces replacing others as loss of org means they retreat. As such re-orging units is very useful.

Such battles have the disadvantage that new arrivers will not have 40 days of digging in and after a few days the fort level is gone as well. Fortified static defence of Garrison is a much more manpowerefficient defence, but of cource only while the line holds. Once Org reaches zero the risks outweight the gains.

However thinking, is re-orging a factor of the province infra level, the ESE of the province or both?

It is proportional to both.

3) In the past I was certain I read that it was best to mix Arm and Mot units to get a balance of hard and soft but more recently people seem to argue its best to keep them separate. Have tended to have my Arm corps with a single Arm div and 2 Mot divs but is it better to keep them separate?

The old rule from prior to AoD does no longer holds true.

softness of a brigaded division = softness of division x (1 + softness of brigade).
Mot1941-SpArt1940 will have 0.7802 softness and Mot1944-SpArt1943 will have 0.744 softness.

The softness of a formation is the avarage softness of its divisions. The combined arms bonus of formation is
0.4 x softness x (1-softness) at offensive and 0.6 x softness x (1-softness) at defence.

This means that anything between 0.25 softness and 0.75 softness gives a good combined arms bonus. Having 1 to 3 armoured divisions in a formation of 9 divisions in total may help to increase its attack value. Adding Mot to a formation of Armoured divisions however will not, at least not noticeable. Given that motorized divisions will run out of Org much faster mixing them is a bad idea.

Mech-HeavyArmour will have a softness near 50%, it depends on the precise model. It is the unit that utilizes combined arms bonus best.

4) Also noticed that are some of the crossings to islands seasonally restricted?

Only the presence of hostile naval forces counts.

For clarification I was never quite certain about how the historical Soviet occupation of the Baltic states was triggered so after a few games went for the early occupation of the northern two and leaving Lithuania as a buffer.

After the MR-Pact you can claim provinces. In summer 1940 chances for that will slowly climb from 0% to 20% per attempt. I rather prefer to take the provinces by force as early as possible. Taking Memel and then attacking Königsberg from many provinces makes Königsberg an excellent meat grinder.

 

[stevep]

Sam, Pang

Many thanks for the answers. To summaries@

2) So its useful to have them reoriging in 200% infra provinces.

3) Keep Arm and Mot separate. Never actually played HoI but presumably early AoD discussion I read were still working on that basis. [Or possibly if its in the long obsolete guide.

4) There must have been an enemy fleet in attack range while the force was preparing to cross then. Which makes it more awkward in a way as Russia will have no fleets in the Med during such periods.

5) Like Pang I take the northern Baltics early and may decide to have a hack at Lithuania in this game. Probably not before I get Bessarabia as I don't want to risk losing those hills.

Steve

 

[Pang Bingxun]

So its useful to have them reoriging in 200% infra provinces.

Maybe. While org is short it probably is true, but chances are it will not be so short to make it mandatory, other considerations might be paramount.

There must have been an enemy fleet in attack range while the force was preparing to cross then. Which makes it more awkward in a way as Russia will have no fleets in the Med during such periods.

Sometimes AI soviet union transfers fleets from Vladivostok to Leningrad or Murmansk and vive versa. AI is not limited by supplies stckpiles of ships.

Like Pang I take the northern Baltics early and may decide to have a hack at Lithuania in this game. Probably not before I get Bessarabia as I don't want to risk losing those hills.

You get Bessarabia either way. Neither germany nor romania will declare war on you in 1939 when you can annex the 3 baltic states. One somewhat convenient method to achieve that is to start the war a few months before the MR-Pact and annex all 3 simultaniously once you have the proper cores. Donnot annex prior to that or you will suffer the additional local dissent.

 

[stevep]

Maybe. While org is short it probably is true, but chances are it will not be so short to make it mandatory, other considerations might be paramount..

Ah I forgot to say. Since I refuse the purge my org is significantly higher than OTL Soviets, although still a good bit lower than the Germans. Found it quite good as holding the line I sometimes have units retreat from a battle, reorg, return to the fray, retreat again and be entering the battle for a 3rd time before I win. Being able to recycle units fairly quickly I've found to be a great help.

.

Sometimes AI soviet union transfers fleets from Vladivostok to Leningrad or Murmansk and vive versa. AI is not limited by supplies stckpiles of ships..

Which reminds me of another point I was going to raise. I know Commander amongst others have mentioned the advantage of having a 200% infra line from the capital to a port for Russia as a way of increasing the ESE in eastern Siberia quicker than upgrading an overland route. Is this not affected by warfare at all? I mean if say the line is to a port in Leningrad or Odessa say, once your at war with Germany and its allies is this disrupted so it only really applied when Germany is defeated? Or is it unlimited by such factors?

.

You get Bessarabia either way. Neither germany nor romania will declare war on you in 1939 when you can annex the 3 baltic states. One somewhat convenient method to achieve that is to start the war a few months before the MR-Pact and annex all 3 simultaniously once you have the proper cores. Donnot annex prior to that or you will suffer the additional local dissent.

OK wasn't sure. If I do grab Lithuania I might go a bit earlier than. Just that because there are a fair number of interactions between events I wasn't sure whether attacking Lithuania would trigger something which prevented me getting Bessarabia. Thanks.

Steve

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Ah I forgot to say. Since I refuse the purge my org is significantly higher than OTL Soviets, although still a good bit lower than the Germans. Found it quite good as holding the line I sometimes have units retreat from a battle, reorg, return to the fray, retreat again and be entering the battle for a 3rd time before I win. Being able to recycle units fairly quickly I've found to be a great help.

Maybe you should try regaining org without retreating. In order to do that you need to attack, preferably in formations of 1 division each. That way those divisions low on Org can conveniently leave the battle for a few hours and rejoin it once they reach 25% or 50% of the maximum Org, but no later.

For this to work out you need to enough division, preferably Inf-Art. Further you need enough HQs(4 for the entire front from Memel to the black sea might suffice), some field marshalls and very many generalmajors. Also you need to a have proper line of Infra to the front including the provinces you will attack from, thus you may need to use accelerated production one those provinces that you donnot gain before 1939. Once you have beaten the enemy in say Königsberg for the first time donnot let your units continue their movement. For more than 2 consecutive battles you should try "attack without movement". Of course movement is the requirement for attack, but it needs to be stopped before the province is left. That way the enemy has to reshuffle troops into the province over and over again. During retreat he will suffer severe losses in strenght and the relative organisation will also continuously shift in your favour. Properly done is very effective and much more manpowerefficient than one might anticipate.

Which reminds me of another point I was going to raise. I know Commander amongst others have mentioned the advantage of having a 200% infra line from the capital to a port for Russia as a way of increasing the ESE in eastern Siberia quicker than upgrading an overland route. Is this not affected by warfare at all?

Apparently not. Warfare will disturb the flow of supplies, but not of ESE. So transporting supplies over ocean will not work well, but as supplies will be drained directly from the main depot at Moscow that does not matter.

Still building up Infra towards the east might be a good idea(but donnot start it too early, anything before 1942 might be wrong unless you expect to safely withstand the german assault in 1941 either way) if fighting is expected in say mongolia. ESE via Ocean is very powerful, but over land ESE is always reduced to potential ESE within two provinces.

 

[Commander666]

I know Commander amongst others have mentioned the advantage of having a 200% infra line from the capital to a port for Russia as a way of increasing the ESE in eastern Siberia

Is this not affected by warfare at all?

ESE transferred via oceans is NOT affected by warfare.

It needs to be understood that ESE is NOT a transfer of actual supplies but only a mathematical calculation that determines how much supplies will transfer. While the flow of supplies can be blocked, unfortunately the ESE math is oblivious to such real life restrictions. Hence, ESE transits blocked straits. It is not good games wise... and about in-line with beaming bulk commodities around the world. But - if you want high ESE in Far East - build high infra line to nearest Level 10 naval base.

Additionally, given that infra is raised along the Trans-Siberia route for greater resources, I also increase the low infra gaps to so pass higher ESE eastwards from Moscow which serves a couple purposes. But - because of length - this diminishes to less than what overseas ESE will be at Vladivostok - if you have good ESE outlet at Leningrad or Sevastopol.

 

[stevep]

Maybe you should try regaining org without retreating. In order to do that you need to attack, preferably in formations of 1 division each. That way those divisions low on Org can conveniently leave the battle for a few hours and rejoin it once they reach 25% or 50% of the maximum Org, but no later.

For this to work out you need to enough division, preferably Inf-Art. Further you need enough HQs(4 for the entire front from Memel to the black sea might suffice), some field marshalls and very many generalmajors. Also you need to a have proper line of Infra to the front including the provinces you will attack from, thus you may need to use accelerated production one those provinces that you donnot gain before 1939. Once you have beaten the enemy in say Königsberg for the first time donnot let your units continue their movement. For more than 2 consecutive battles you should try "attack without movement". Of course movement is the requirement for attack, but it needs to be stopped before the province is left. That way the enemy has to reshuffle troops into the province over and over again. During retreat he will suffer severe losses in strenght and the relative organisation will also continuously shift in your favour. Properly done is very effective and much more manpowerefficient than one might anticipate.

Just to clarify do you mean attack the provinces the Germans are attacking from? To try and win the defensive battles because the enemy is handicapped by both defending and attacking? From adjacent unattacked provinces? Might be possible but could be very costly for the attackers.

Or do you mean attacking before they attack me? I'm not sure given the strength the Germans normally have that would be practical in 41. At least unless I produce a lot more units earlier. Especially given even without the purge their org is higher than mine and in 41 their doctrines are generally better.

Have considered a version of what your saying in terms of if all forces in a province are forced to retreat seeking to counter-attack enemy units moving into the province. Since infra will be low because of the extended initial battle and the enemy will have weakened forces moving in I should have a chance to hit them hard. Then possibly not occupy the province and just hit any enemy units moving into it. Think that's a version of what you mean?

I do have two paths from Moscow, both to the south of the front that will be pretty much 200% infra by the time war comes and am boosting the infra of all border provinces I plan to stand on at double rate but some will still be quite low. Exception are the two provinces in Bessarabia as I don't hold them yet but their current owners are developing them quite well for me.

Apparently not. Warfare will disturb the flow of supplies, but not of ESE. So transporting supplies over ocean will not work well, but as supplies will be drained directly from the main depot at Moscow that does not matter.

OK thanks.

Still building up Infra towards the east might be a good idea(but donnot start it too early, anything before 1942 might be wrong unless you expect to safely withstand the german assault in 1941 either way) if fighting is expected in say mongolia. ESE via Ocean is very powerful, but over land ESE is always reduced to potential ESE within two provinces.

Agreed. I intend to hold the Germans very near the frontier but don't intend doing anything aggressive in Asia until Europe is liberated - largely/totally by the Red Army.

Thanks

Steve

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Or do you mean attacking before they attack me?

Preferable that. If you have 270 Inf1941-Art1940 and level 10 forts all along the border it can be done, probably with some easy. I have done it without forts and with only 180 Inf1941-Art1940, but that was with switching to the german doctrine tree and with attacking germany when it attacked Yugoslavia. A guarantee of independence there works miracles. If you wait for germany to attack you, than you need to be a lot stronger.

The germany doctrine tree with 1940 techs has 80 org, the soviet doctrine tree with 1940 techs only 55. 270 instead of 180 division would out weight that, further the hourly attack would be ~22.5% higher, allowing you to win battles faster. So i suppose the forts can be skipped, or at least be at a much lower level of around 4 on average, but of course more where it counts.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Have considered a version of what your saying in terms of if all forces in a province are forced to retreat seeking to counter-attack enemy units moving into the province. Since infra will be low because of the extended initial battle and the enemy will have weakened forces moving in I should have a chance to hit them hard. Then possibly not occupy the province and just hit any enemy units moving into it. Think that's a version of what you mean?

If you choose to retreat you should probably do it about 3 provinces deep. That means that your needed infra production will be much smaller and for germany both ESE and Infra will be significantly lower both in the province you will attack them and the province they will retreat to.

Something that probably has no better application is interdiction by CAS against the german invaders. If you have the needed degree of air dominance this will be extremely effective because no dug in bonus applies. CAS are best at defence against attacking forces that by moving forfeit any dug in bonus they might have had. Also CAS has a high hard attack value against armoured divisions.

Later those weakened forces will be attacked by your masses of Inf-Art in the way i described. That will be much easier.

 

[Commander666]

I do have two paths from Moscow... ... ... and am boosting the infra of all border provinces

Just to clarify, a higher infra province on the border will have little increased ESE unless the provinces behind it going to capital are same infra. Once ESE drops leaving capital - because it hit lower infra - no amount of increased infra further along can raise the ESE value. Mouse over every province ESE value starting from capital and follow the highest trace. Don't improve infra at the end of that trace unless the route to that border destination will be same infra level. But forking out at ends of those 2 routes you mentioned is probably what you doing, and that gives excellent further coverage so every front line province can be radically increased. But remember there is the "2-province ESE spillover" once infra drops.

Also, I would not be improving infra at any province I expect to retreat from. You need to insure that the Wehrmacht advancing would need to pass thru a ESE wasteland.

IMO 200% infra is quite rich. I usually do a couple 100 infra lines to the Polish border. Also capital to outlet is about 150 when war starts (and will continue or idle). And the Trans-Siberia as far as Mogocha mountain province is 90-100 but a couple key resource provinces will continue. So I have total of 4 line projects. No infra builds in Polish or Romania ceded territory.

On Trans-Siberia, next time I stop before Mogocha (and eliminate accelerated cost for the mountain infra) because the ESE from Vladivostok with no infra improvements on that far eastern section is identical ESE as the values coming from Moscow. With the ESE coming from east and west, Mogocha with no improvements is the middle lowest ESE point, but has very good ESE (if you have 150 infra line to outlet).

 

[stevep]

Preferable that. If you have 270 Inf1941-Art1940 and level 10 forts all along the border it can be done, probably with some easy. I have done it without forts and with only 180 Inf1941-Art1940, but that was with switching to the german doctrine tree and with attacking germany when it attacked Yugoslavia. A guarantee of independence there works miracles. If you wait for germany to attack you, than you need to be a lot stronger.

OK, thanks for clarifying. I normally go for ~150 Inf41/Art/AT40 with one Eng in each stack of 12 divisions to be the embedded bonus. With more building along with Mtn and in the past Arm/Mot units but probably more inclined towards Mech now. With some reserves it can be tight holding the initial German attacks and normally don't try serious counter-attacks to break Germany before Win 42.

I did use heavy fortifications in my early games but found it too easy. Had a line of 9-10 lvl forts between Baltic and Black Seas and found after the 1st year the Germans wouldn't attack even if I only had 3 Inf divisions defending, albeit with more to support behind them, since they got bled so badly. Also any resources spent on forts are permanently lost once you advance beyond them or if the Germans get past them. [Plus I have heard of the exploit with paras where the fortifications then count against the actual defenders so although the AI has never used it against me I've always been a bit wary of that.]

Normally waited until they attack me but going on the offensive during the Yugoslav campaign sounds interesting. Apart from anything else doing that would mean I wouldn't need to spend so much on boosting infra in front line provinces - as opposed to a line to the front. Might give it a try in another game.

The germany doctrine tree with 1940 techs has 80 org, the soviet doctrine tree with 1940 techs only 55. 270 instead of 180 division would out weight that, further the hourly attack would be ~22.5% higher, allowing you to win battles faster. So i suppose the forts can be skipped, or at least be at a much lower level of around 4 on average, but of course more where it counts.

Must admit I've never tried a doctrine shift but that could be interesting. Other than rejecting the purge tend to like to keep near the historical events wise but that would have a big impact I bet, Although you do lose some tech which you have to catch up on.

 

[stevep]

If you choose to retreat you should probably do it about 3 provinces deep. That means that your needed infra production will be much smaller and for germany both ESE and Infra will be significantly lower both in the province you will attack them and the province they will retreat to.

Ah your talking about a strategic retreat of the entire defensive line. I generally form a line and then hold it. I was talking about tactical retreats where a defensive formation retreat when their org runs out but having others still fighting and re-orging the retreating units and putting them back in. Normally used to have this line a little way back, apart from in the south where the hills of Bessarabia are so useful for defence.

Something that probably has no better application is interdiction by CAS against the german invaders. If you have the needed degree of air dominance this will be extremely effective because no dug in bonus applies. CAS are best at defence against attacking forces that by moving forfeit any dug in bonus they might have had. Also CAS has a high hard attack value against armoured divisions.

Later those weakened forces will be attacked by your masses of Inf-Art in the way i described. That will be much easier.

Must admit I have stopped using CAS, Partly their short range and partly to make them effective you really need to research their doctrine tree. Even with refusing the purge, which means from 1940 you have two teams for such work doing only the fighter/interceptor and the tactical bomber ones takes all my efforts and I will generally be a bit behind the tree until 42/43. Might give them a try again however.

 

[stevep]

Just to clarify, a higher infra province on the border will have little increased ESE unless the provinces behind it going to capital are same infra. Once ESE drops leaving capital - because it hit lower infra - no amount of increased infra further along can raise the ESE value. Mouse over every province ESE value starting from capital and follow the highest trace. Don't improve infra at the end of that trace unless the route to that border destination will be same infra level. But forking out at ends of those 2 routes you mentioned is probably what you doing, and that gives excellent further coverage so every front line province can be radically increased. But remember there is the "2-province ESE spillover" once infra drops.

Understand that. Thanks to the large level of infra development ibn v1.10, which I largely I find I only need 3-4 additional provinces at double rate to get a 200% infra to the border near Odessa by 41. There are a number of resource rich provinces in the Ukraine that I want to 200% anyway so would develop them. Adding another one and doubling one set at single rate and I get a branch line to west of Kiev. I do this because since I won't have the front line up to 200& when war comes otherwise the effective ESE will drop towards the north of the line.

Also, I would not be improving infra at any province I expect to retreat from. You need to insure that the Wehrmacht advancing would need to pass thru a ESE wasteland.

As I said to Pang above I'm talking about tactical retreats of formations which run out of org rather than the defensive line. I except to hold that where it is, which is a little way in from the border, Getting some 200% infra provinces, namely Odessa and Minsk just behind the defensive line was to help speed up such re-orging so units can rejoin the front line battle quickly, which generally works quite well.

IMO 200% infra is quite rich. I usually do a couple 100 infra lines to the Polish border. Also capital to outlet is about 150 when war starts (and will continue or idle). And the Trans-Siberia as far as Mogocha mountain province is 90-100 but a couple key resource provinces will continue. So I have total of 4 line projects. No infra builds in Polish or Romania ceded territory.

I haven't touched any line other than to the main front yet. Would only start working on other ones to Siberia or Baku once Germany is clearly on the ropes as other things to spend IC on. However since this line is to Odessa I have my port outlet and with a lot of resource provinces also being developed I hopefully won't have to fill in many gaps.

On Trans-Siberia, next time I stop before Mogocha (and eliminate accelerated cost for the mountain infra) because the ESE from Vladivostok with no infra improvements on that far eastern section is identical ESE as the values coming from Moscow. With the ESE coming from east and west, Mogocha with no improvements is the middle lowest ESE point, but has very good ESE (if you have 150 infra line to outlet).

Useful. Thanks.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Ah your talking about a strategic retreat of the entire defensive line. I generally form a line and then hold it.

Once a line of defence is chosen it needs to be defended by static offensive. This will break the germany forces by annihilating them. Especially armoured divisions lose strenght much faster than they can regain it and at low strenght the fighting efficiency of divisions is very low.

Normally waited until they attack me but going on the offensive during the Yugoslav campaign sounds interesting. Apart from anything else doing that would mean I wouldn't need to spend so much on boosting infra in front line provinces - as opposed to a line to the front. Might give it a try in another game.

Actually i did combine that with high Infra directy at the front. When the war breaks out that will make no immediate difference, because the german forces near the front are so thin. But once the bulk of the troops moves to the front you need that about quadrupled rate of regaining org, also you need no less than 100% ESE for proper fighting efficiency from properly supplies troops. Due to the tc-overload during heavy fighting ESE during peace time should be much above 100%.

 

[Commander666]

There are a number of resource rich provinces in the Ukraine that I want to 200% anyway so would develop them.

Precisely! By and large, this goal already constructs much of the infra lines built to pass higher ESE.

Adding another one and doubling one set at single rate and I get a branch line to west of Kiev.

That line to Kiev is a very important line for defensive reasons. It can be used with a branch going off to Sevastopol Level 10 Naval Base to create ESE outlet with only needing to add 2-3 extra provinces (all clear terrain) which is easier than line thru forest terrain to Leningrad outlet. Although I usually do both as I like Leningrad to be high for other reasons. But a high Sevastopol ESE outlet would give very good ESE to Leningrad, so I need to relook at the efficiency of eliminating those 5 forest infra builds Moscow>Leningrad.

Getting some 200% infra provinces, namely Odessa and Minsk just behind the defensive line was to help speed up such re-orging so units can rejoin the front line battle quickly, which generally works quite well.

200% at Odessa is wrong unless you have 200% connection to any 200% province behind that which you raised for resources (and so make it a 200% continuous line to capital). There is no point exceeding the infra of the lowest infra province farther back in the line. Concentrate on raising that province as it caps the maximum ESE that can pass.

Line to Minsk is very good choice, but, likewise, you need 200 infra connection to the line running to Kiev. Branching off at Kaluga/Roslavi/Mogilev can be efficient... or longer separate line Moscow thru Smolensk has advantages too.

Would only start working on other ones to Siberia or Baku once Germany is clearly on the ropes ... However since this line is to Odessa I have my port outlet and with a lot of resource provinces also being developed

1) WRONG! Unless Odessa has been changed to Level 10 naval base (as occurs in 1941 scenario) you have a very poor ESE outlet. You want 10 Level Naval Base... not a frigging "port".

2) Delaying line towards Siberia makes sense, but not in MP where SU player might be on the ropes instead, and gets capital relocated. I assume that would move to Sverdlovsk. If so, your retreating front would have horrible ESE due to ESE loss from the distant new capital. .

So I construct at start the 100 infra line from Moscow thru Syzran to Chelyabinsk where "raising to 200% for resources" takes over. With half a dozen low spots added all at regular speed, I got my Trans-Siberia ESE route completed to 100 infra to Mogocha mtn by 1938. What ever happens, I have good ESE all across SU now. It is not expensive done at regular speed, and nice to have it all finished early except for a few key resource provinces, the Capital, and line to ESE outlet continuing.

 

[stevep]

Pang

Whoops! Shows how little naval combat I've done as while I do have a 200% line planned Moscow to Odessa I had overlooked the actual port size. Will have to look at whether its easiest upgrading the port or adding the extension to Sevastopol. Have started another game to include a few new ideas and played from start to 1-1-38 yesterday. Unfortunately have less free time over the weekend and am going to my mum's Monday so won't have time to play until I get back. Hope to get to 1-1-40 by end of play tomorrow.

Will also look at a cheap line east earlier. The problem is I have just about got to the point where all infra is covered especially since I've chopped the early IC construction other than at Moscow - since I've secure all the research slots. However just about to have the non-purge dissent and then I will have to start pimping out units from mid 39 onwards to face the Germans. Hence any additional distraction from that could weaken the major defensive actions. If Russia suffers anything like the historical losses, with the efforts put into infrastructure makes it unlikely that Russia could come back successfully, especially given how badly AI nations tend to perform against AI Germany.

Steve