Three Moves Ahead Podcast - 3 Games Journalists at the HOI4 Event Discuss their impressions

[Wulf145]

my 2cents:

A lot of the problems addressed will only occur in a Multiplayer game where noone has any idea of how to play the Game. If you are making stupid decisions in any HOI then you will not get a 'normal' Game.

From what was said, the most worrying point was the implementation of the National Focus/Goals system, if all you have to do is 'Click and Wait' then I see no point in them.

I am sure that the World Tension mechanic can be modified to take into account different factors such as 'regional tension' (i.e. If Japan invades China it should not affect the Franco-German relations unless they both get involved in that war) and Relationship or Threat Levels between countries.

What I would like to see is a similar review but by people who have been playing the HOI Series.

 

[Hans_Schnitzel]

I wonder how anyone can think that this is going to be a EU like game, considering how little you can do in HoI4 during peace time. The only thing you can do during peace time seems to be producing things for war, or to trade raw material to gain other raw material for.. more things for war and you can make diplomacy to gain allies and friends.. for war, or give a guarentee to a country, so you can join the war to defend them. This game still very much wants you to be part of some god damn war.

About National Focus: You still have to do something. You have to fulfill requirements. For example the remilitarisation of the Rheinland requires you to actually move divisions into it.

 

[MartinSWE]

in one way I´m actually glad that we now know the delay was motivated.

 

[redflag]

in this particular case there was a bug with the french event for answering the rheinland challenge and it skyrocketed world tension, so USA could join in rather than just being France (and maybe UK) vs germany

Ok. However please give careful consideration to how the Airforce functions in HOI4. This is a subjective criticism that is worthy of consideration. I am sure there is a solution to having a airforce that adds to ground combat without being so intimidating or confusing that players ignore it (like in HOI3).

Edit To be clear all criticisms are worthy of consideration however usually objective critisms hold far more weight than subjective criticisms.

 

[Zoob]

in one way I´m actually glad that we now know the delay was motivated.

I like the idea that you previously could have been under the impression that the game was delayed for no reason, or because Paradox are purely arbitrary.

 

[jibby123]

I like the idea that you previously could have been under the impression that the game was delayed for no reason, or because Paradox are purely arbitrary.

It's a 'nice to have' that we get a better idea of what state the game is in though. Silence from game makers on where the game is at is worse imvho. This time last week I didn't have a clue where and why there were delays. I (we?) still don't anything like fully know, but I will never complain for honest feedback on where the game needs improving and/or why there are specific things that aren't polished enough for game release yet.

Some games just delay, delay then cancel without any info to waiting fans. EvW? So despite the shortcomings I am kind of pleased Paradox let people look and play the game and are open to having both good and bad feedback out there.

But I'm sometimes easily pleased!

 

[Wulf145]

About National Focus: You still have to do something. You have to fulfill requirements. For example the remilitarisation of the Rheinland requires you to actually move divisions into it.

Not according to those who Played it - that was one of their legitimate gripes - the National Focuses were just 'click and wait'.
Since the previous Version did have things you have to do, there is a hope that this was just a 'dumbed-down' version for this Game.

 

[Hans_Schnitzel]

Not according to those who Played it - that was one of their legitimate gripes - the National Focuses were just 'click and wait'.
Since the previous Version did have things you have to do, there is a hope that this was just a 'dumbed-down' version for this Game.

Hm, that's odd. I clearly remember the remilization for example to mention requirements, or the "Create the Panzerwaffe" required you to actually make an armored division.

 

[Wulf145]

Hm, that's odd. I clearly remember the remilization for example to mention requirements, or the "Create the Panzerwaffe" required you to actually make an armored division.

So do I, but nevertheless it was not in the Version that they reviewed.

 

[Karlburg]

I think the show suffered from not having the true blue wargamers for this one- most of them seemed to want a generic 1936 empire builder, though I do think the game really does need to do something to make the pre-war period stay within more bounds- there's not a single reasonable system that will make France not rearm as quickly as possible- Totaler Krieg starts in 1937 but it has a very structured system of replacements- you don't have production points or anything, the option cards are what give you the amount of replacements you get.

 

[podcat]

I think the show suffered from not having the true blue wargamers for this one- most of them seemed to want a generic 1936 empire builder, though I do think the game really does need to do something to make the pre-war period stay within more bounds- there's not a single reasonable system that will make France not rearm as quickly as possible- Totaler Krieg starts in 1937 but it has a very structured system of replacements- you don't have production points or anything, the option cards are what give you the amount of replacements you get.

as Quill18 mentioned in his video France did not have its starting national spirit setup modelign its historical situation and focus tree but was instead using the generic fallback tree which is designed for growing smaller nations in all sorts of directions and definitly not to keep them down. We only finished that 2 days before the event and it wasnt time to test it for the event We'll go over france, like the other focus trees in future dev diaries

 

[tomstegmeier]

when the game is out, i will go over france too, with my panzerdivisons...

 

[fabius]

when the game is out, i will go over france too, with my panzerdivisons...

Nice timing with that

 

[ringhloth]

Sounds like non-HOI fans doesn't like this game, Paradox is trying to please non-hoi fan base but they don't like the traditional hoi mechanics. It ends up if paradox wants to accommodate non-hoi fan base, they would have to change a lot of the old mechanics. Which would make the game way to simplistic and not as good as hoi3.

Maybe paradox should have done a victoria 3 instead.

It's either in alpha or pre-alpha. It obviously will have plenty of balance issues and unfinished areas, which seemed to be the main problem. There were a few deeper issues, but those will inevitably be fixed by launch. HoI4 is looking great, and I'm still quite excited.

 

[columbusbobby23]

I think it would have been better to have those guys play individual single player games instead of all at once with each other. The HOI series has always been a single player game first and multiplayer game second. The fact that these guys are not players of earlier HOI games in the series is making me second guess many of their observations. I'm looking forward to somebody who has 1,000 hours on HOI2/HOI3 to sit down with this game and dive into a few single player campaigns. That's when I'll be hanging on every word. Especially when it comes to the AI(Something that hasn't really been talked about). One thing that really concerns me is what they said about the battle planner not working well. Earlier this year the devs mentioned that they have gone through several iterations of the system and I fear that if they don't have a good system in place by now, it might not happen before release.

I would like to make a suggestion to the devs. One of the things I believe the earlier games in the series were light on are user options. In particular, gameplay options that you have when you start a new game. I think the more options a player can set before he/she starts a game, the more fun they will have later on down the road. Half of the idea suggestions in this forum that people agree/disagree on can be settled by simple on/off options. I can imagine that some are harder to implement than others. But you never hear people complain about having too many choices.

 

[potski]

The fact that these guys are not players of earlier HOI games in the series is making me second guess many of their observations. I'm looking forward to somebody who has 1,000 hours on HOI2/HOI3 to sit down with this game and dive into a few single player campaigns. That's when I'll be hanging on every word.

Actually one of them said he had played both HOI2 and HOI3, and I thought one had tried HOI3 but couldn't get into it.

I thought their observations were great, they highlighted specific issues (like the air interface) which Johan admitted in today's DD needed work, but also:

- the overall difficulties of a game in such a limited time period, where what happened is well known
- that there are almost two games, pre-war with diplomacy, production, trade, then the war, with such a great difference between them
- the features which are not properly integrated, like having a communist Australia remain in the Allies
- the playability of minors, unless gamey tactics are employed
- the poor peace mechanisms, that all relied on heavily scripted and inflexible events, such as Vichy
- railroading towards historical outcomes

 

[J28]

The game is looking good but there's clearly a lot more work to do. I think world tension will be a great feature ones it's balanced properly. One of the big things they need to get right are the national foci/focuses. At the moment the podcast was right, it seems too forced.

Getting the battle planner right will also be absolutely crucial. I think there has to be at least an option to create an OOB. Great concepts can you execute PDX? I have faith

 

[MatteFnatte]

as Quill18 mentioned in his video France did not have its starting national spirit setup modelign its historical situation and focus tree but was instead using the generic fallback tree which is designed for growing smaller nations in all sorts of directions and definitly not to keep them down. We only finished that 2 days before the event and it wasnt time to test it for the event We'll go over france, like the other focus trees in future dev diaries

Good to hear, as a long time strategy gamer you really want that feeling that your choices are to fill some purpose. As the podcasters mentionened, unlike several other paradox-games HOI is very focused on one particular conflict and very short time-period which in order to keep the player immersed needs a lot of historical flavour

 

[smurphy99999999]

IIRC didn't podcat say something about a hidden stockpile for factories that basically handled temporary disruptions but not long term droughts? A stockpile for a week or two, maybe 30 days at most is not unreasonable but also not something that needs to be manually created.

I was a bit disappointed in hearing about the national focus system. Based on this podcast and some stills from Quills video I had a couple concerns. There seems to be no prerequisites except previous national focuses. This seems off because some of the focuses, especially the aggressive ones, should require a certain amount of troops in a general area or something. I saw in Quills video that there is a prereq section for focuses when he hovered over them but they were all empty as far as I saw. Another thing I noticed is that the time it takes to complete a focus is the same for each focus. This also seems a little too simple, some focuses should take longer than others. One thing that might be interesting to add is the ability to do some focuses (like buildup ones) multiple times. So instead of having Build Infrastructure 1 and 2 and 3 just have Build Infrastructure with the option of doing it multiple times (probably increasing the cost the whol way). This could also be a way to chop big focuses into smaller chunks.

 

[CyberianK]

Please look at when the USA is able to join the war and when they have their production capability and mobilization ready.

I think there should be no way US is mobilizing for total war in 36, 37 and drowning the Axis in heavy bombers. Later, sure but even if world tension rises early they should need time to get everything going.
I find it funny btw. that it was Paradox themselves who ruined the first game by using such cheesy tactics (especially when playing against noobs).