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Chief Ragusa said:
Alternatively, you could say that you hadn't noticed that the ai has set builld ship as the default build and it slipped your mind and it was too late by the time you did.

If the TO did annex Riga, its trading strategy would go up in smoke. I believe EU 3 penalizes nations that annex something chronic when they try to trade.I think you missed an opportunity when Riga DoWed on Novgorod. You might have got the opportunity to gain from a war without triggereing a Moscovite response. You have given a hint that the TO is goiongto make use of the armies you so thoughtfully left them. If they did take Lithuania apart, hats off to them.

I'm really looking forward to Sicily inching forward under your guidance.
Click to expand...

I paused the game when Riga went on its war dance and thought about it. To take down Novgorod and get anything out of it I was going to have to take its capital, which has a COT. This I believe would screw my trading ability so I declined at that time to go to war and so got rid of Riga. But it's beginning to look like at some time my trading days are going to be over because moving through Novgorod will be easier than Lithuania.

Inching forward is a good discription for Sicily. ;)

Joe
 
You could expand North without ever owning the Novgorod COT. You either need to grab Viborg from Sweden, or annex Pskov and Tver. Both of these moves will let you grab all of Novgorod's province and connect them to your capital after you annex Riga.

Of course, all that annexing would hurt your trade as much as owning a foreign culture COT but at least that penalty will go away over time. That is unless Lithuania annex them first, but then you are back to square one. ;)
 
Novgorod is rich enough to prevent it from being a non-accepted culture COT for very long. Ofcourse, you'd probably have to rebuild your trading, but the AI would likely do that anyway.
 
Storey said:
Hmm, I downloaded the patch and I'm pretty sure I remember seeing 1.2 somewhere on the opening phases of the game but I'll double check. Did I reads somewhere that there is a 1.2.1 patch or is that my imagination? Thanks for the info. Will a save game from 1.1 run on 1.2? I didn't know if Japan would get the discoveries as quickly as the Teutonic Order and Sicily so if they don't I'll have to let them take QFTNW at some time to keep things fair. My bet is on the Teutonic Order simply because they are the most agressive but who knows?
Click to expand...

There is a 1.2.1, though the .1 bit is relatively minor. The new spy missions are in the 1.2 portion, according to the sticky post in the main forum. Saves from 1.1 worked fine for me. Arguably better, in a way, since the 1.2 change allowing provinces to be claimed from pagan nations as if they were colonies appears to be what launches AI Ming to the shores of the Caspian by 1470 (the other contributing factors are the immediate Oirat Horde DoW on Ming in 1453, and the fact that the AI discovers any province adjacent to any owned province immediately - I believe this has been the case since 1.0 and is unlikely to change).

I can assure you from my Ming game that Japan will get no useful discovery spreads in the forseeable future (I've played up to 1570). Just an occasional province in India, and not enough of them to open up much hope of conquest there.

Re: Novgorod, you're correct about the CoT ruining the rest of your trade. Though you'll be fine in CoTs you own - small consolation given the TO's remarkable trading success so far. If it was largely based on the Hanseatic League event, that may come to an end now anyway - the event should have just expired. We'll have to see how many merchants they have next time you visit! As an aside, Japan may be OK taking Malacca if opportunity arises - not sure if they're competent enough to compete in Jiangsu anyway (when not banned by Ming), so being limited to owned CoTs may not be a real handicap. And speaking of Japan, what's the status of Ryukyu? May as well DoW them in the next Ming war, should be an easy and valuable annexation for you.

Chief Ragusa - the 6 BB from annexing Riga with a CB shouldn't kill the TO's trade. It might cost a few merchants here and there, but I'd only worry if BB got into the teens. Which seems unlikely unless Storey makes up for the "couch potato" turn by turbo-annexing Lithuania next time. :D Or unless Bremen leads AI TO on a mad annexation spree in the HRE...
 
Interesting tale so far. I am still hurt by the unprovoked assault on Brunei but I guess Tinkers and Evers will survive. The TO is doing OK and Sicily has such a low manpower that I don't see how they will ever get that great boost to start expanding.

Looking forward to how you fare next...
 
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Being Hanse explains the naval build up. The best timeto take Riga would be whilst the hanse effect is still inoperation. it would appear that if Riga DoWs Novgorod and takes the capital, all the trade ruination happens to Riga. Riga would also be negotiating the peace, so as long as the Teutonic Knights steal all the other sieges, they'd acquire territory and merchants would still love them.
 
JaxomCA - Considering how large Lithuania become in some other games I’ve played I’m going to have to decide in the TO’s next turn what I’m going to do about it. If I’m going through them it’s going to have to start next turn or they’ll get too strong.

Kanil - Since I hate trading I wouldn’t shed any tears if I lost it. Besides as you point out the AI will deal with it before I do. ;)

Jhhowell - Mystery solved. I was having problems with the game earlier and finally had to reload the game and forgot to also reload the patch. It’s back on now and with Sicily I see all the options. My thought with QFTNW was to wait until at least 1600 maybe later before letting any country have it but I’m not fixing a set date on it. I’ll just play it by ear and see what happens. I’m about to play Japan and I’ll check out Ryukyu. Thanks for the info.

Stroph1 - The manpower issue is a serious problem, which is why I’m trying to expand in Italy. I haven’t decided if I’m going to take the rest of Brunei yet. :D

Chief Ragusa - I may just say the hell with it and get it over with by just making Novgorod a vassal. With that and military access I can just walk over them and hit Moscowy. ;)

Joe
 
Sicily 1503


I don’t suppose it should be a surprise but I’ve lost Karaman to the Turks. As I look around I see I’m allied with Naxos, Aragon and Connacht. Boy Connacht is sure to be a big help, don’t you think? Aragon on the other hand proves a helpful ally in the coming war. Not much in the way of an army (again) or Navy.
OverviewSicily1503.jpg

My mistake in my earlier turn was trying to expand too quickly in an area I couldn’t expect the AI to defend. So I’m going to expand closer to home. I need to be stronger if I’m going to go over and pick on the Turks or for that matter anyone between me and my goal.

Just out of curiosity I take a look at the tradition window and it looks like the last war against the Ottomans was mainly fought at sea.
Tradition1503Sicily.jpg


Ah the first improvement in Infantry of the three countries.
Military1503Sicily.jpg

The AI has selected to stay with men at arms and I suppose you could make an argument to support that choice so maybe it’s not the first indication of the AI screwing up but I’m going to switch to Galloglaigh Infantry. I have read that the AI has a tendency not to upgrade it’s land forces but we will see.


As with the Teutonic Order the Sicily AI is capable of building up its infrastructure.
1503buildingoverviewSicily.jpg



Sicilymilitaryreform1504.jpg

Normally I choose land but this time I pick Naval reform. I’m just months away from getting the next level in land anyway so what the hell let’s go naval. My navy is usually several steps behind my land forces but I think at least in the coming few turns I’m possibly going to need a strong navy.

So I’m just about ready after once again(why am I beginning to fell like Sisyphus) rebuilding my land forces and my manpower pool is as busy as bees replenishing itself when Naxos gags on an olive and spits out a declaration of war against the Ottomans. I decline to join them and yes I know this could be a chance to grab something but I didn’t like the fact that Naxos hasn’t a ghost of a chance of surviving, leaving me alone against the Turks so thanks but no thanks. Sure enough they last less than a year before being annexed by the Turks. I also get a notice that the Teutonic Knights just declared war on Novgorod. Hope they know what they are doing.

Finally in 1505 I’m ready and declare war on Urbino. Brandenburg and Modena join Urbino while Aragon and Connacht join me in the fun. Yea Connacht failed to show up. I don’t know why I forgot to kick these losers out of my alliance. Anyway my plan was to annex Urbino and then move up and hit Modena, which has just two provinces, demand one for peace and sit back and enjoy. Unfortunately just before I declared war Venice took Modena’s province leaving it just the capital. Still there’s work to be done so we have at it and I once again I show my superior tactical and strategy prowess and roll over the opposition. Of course it did help that Urbino didn’t have any land forces.
1505warSicily.jpg


So I’ve just started playing ra-ta-tat-tat on Urbino when this pops up.
Teutonic1505victory.jpg

Wow. The TO AI is already two provinces ahead of me this turn.

I capture Urbino after a couple of months and I annex the suckers. Meanwhile Aragon besieges Modena.
SicilyvicotryoverUrbino.jpg


Aragon reaches a separate peace with Modena and Brandenburg and graciously leaves me to besiege Modena until it surrenders. Modena becomes my vassal and that leaves Brandenburg who can’t get to me or me to them so we eventually agree to a white peace...


Meanwhile back at the TO ranch our Teutonic knights declare war on Lithuania.
They weren’t satisfied with Novgorod?

Which ended a year later.
Peacewithorderlithuiania1508Sicily.jpg

Woo Hoo.

Then in 1509 the Teutonic Order again declared war against Novgorod but it ended in a white peace. Maybe I’ve created a monster?

Sicilyend1513.jpg



Just a couple of comments. In my EU2 game the Pope was the war monger of the three countries I played. I mean the guy would pick a fight with anyone he thought looked cross-eyed at him and this time it’s the Teutonic Order who’s bouncing around like a stud on steroids picking fights regardless of how big and mean his opponent is. One thing that crossed my mind was this is the third war between the Order and Lithuania with the Order losing one, a draw in another and winning this one. if Lithuania is one of the lucky countries then the Order shouldn’t be doing this good, right? Or do you think I’m reading too much into these results?

Yea I know the TO AI picks up three provinces to my one, plus my one vassal. Luckily I’m not keeping count.
 
but I’m going to switch to Galloglaigh Infantry - that's why you have Connaught in the alliance!

Historically, Novogorod was the teuton's vassal when Muscovy went acalling, which maybe why they went in there. I think you have the right of it: Vassalize Novgorod and smash Muscovy into little pieces.

Tuscany and Venice stand in your way to uniting Italy. The war with Venice could be the make or break for your game as Sicily.

I am really wishing you were going back to the Teutonic Knights and not off to Japan. You can almost feel another war with Novgorod and Lithuania whilst you're otherwise engaged.
 
Hehe, this doesn't surprize me from the TO. In most of my games, the TO is very aggressive, mostly against Novgorod and Lithuania. In some games, they make good progress, I even once saw the TO reach Yaroslav. Most of the time though, they get steamrolled by Lithuania-Poland. Now if the AI doesn't disband the troops you recruit, they may be able to survive. You should make sure you annex Riga on your next turn, otherwise the AI will loose its new gains to rebels.

Oops, it seems most comments are about your AI countries. Hmm, yeah! Go Storey! ;)

Edit: Each country has a list of preferred units. The AI only upgrades to units on that list. For example, here is the list for Sicily:

Code: 
historical_units = {
	western_medieval_infantry
	western_medieval_knights
	western_men_at_arms
	italian_condotta
	spanish_tercio
	austrian_tercio
	austrian_grenzer
	austrian_hussar
	austrian_white_coat
	austrian_jaeger
}

I wonder if the AI will revert to one of its historical units if you change it to a non-historical one. I guess we'll see when you gain access to Mauritian Infantry.
 
The TO AI seems to be doing well against the Lithuanian giant. Now lets see if Japan is capable of doing the same against the Ming.
 
Yeah...... something is wrong with the TO. Ive never been able to do well in a war playing as them, and now this? The AI nations must be working together to mock humanity.
 
Well done, TO AI! And human Sicily too, of course. :)

Regarding discovery spread for Japan, they'll learn of almost every single province in Eurasia, plus north and east Africa, on June 1st, 1603. I don't understand why it comes as a single massive chunk like that. I would have expected a more gradual spread, first the Indian maps in 1503, then Muslim maps in 1553, but clearly the game doesn't work that way. Whatever; you can plan ahead for Japan now, and take QftNW or not as seems appropriate. The gigantic map-dump does not include Siberia, the East Indies (other than what you start out knowing), or Diego Garcia.

Lithuania's lucky status should be pretty clear if you keep an eye on their monarchs. If they're always good (two or more stats 8+), they're lucky, if not, probably not. Or you could look at the save game. I wonder if loading as a new nation every ten years shuffles the lucky nations too - not sure if the game tries to place the lucky ones near(ish) to the player's country...

Hmm, it's a bit late now, but how innovative is Sicily? If they're on that side of the slider, you could try for the Reformation (keep a 1-star theologian on staff). If Sicily goes Protestant, they can take Rome and keep it. :D But considering the timing, if the Reformation doesn't pop up somewhere in Italy you'll be stuck hiring a theologian just before you leave in 1543 and hoping for Reformed. If you want to try stupid religious tricks at all, that is.
 
Good work against Modena and Urbino; thingsin Italy are much the same as in the HRE: You first have to swallow the minors before crossing the swords with the major countries...

Concerning the TO, I think you can't say that they are generally more or less aggressive or expansionistic. I've seen them being extinguished within trhe first 30 years of the game and in another game, they've overrun Novgorod and have taken the whole Scandinavian Peninsula afterwards. The AI has made a good job in your game, althoug we'll have to see if it was wise to mess with both major neighborhood bullies at the same time... :p
 
Maybe you ought to just let the TO play itself while you work the other two countries. ;) And if you don't want that ship, you could try and loan it out to Japan. Sounds like they need as many as they can get. Nice work with Sicily. But don't let the Turks get too cold.
 
Chief Ragusa - Depending on various details I plan to take on and destroy Tuscany and push Venice out of Italy. Then Probably start moving toward the goal. The problem is it will all depend on how Sicily does while I’m away and I haven’t seen the Sicily AI do much on it’s own to give me an indication of where it’s going. I think you’ll find Japan’s turn interesting enough to forget about the Teutonic Order. :eek: :D I’ve played from 1513 to 1517 and stopped and saved the game. I’m in a precarious situation and need advice of what the hell to do. More later. Oh and just to quench you thirst for info about the TO here’s a shot of them in 1517.

TO1517.jpg

I’ve selected one army and I’m hovering my mouse over the other army. They are at peace but it must have been a serious situation for them to have a grand total of 1 man in all their armies! :eek:

JaxomCA - Will it didn’t disband my troops but it did use them up. Sigh, Riga is my ally again in 1517. Interesting list of troop upgrades. Yes I also wonder what the AI will do if I select a non-historical unit.

Duke of Wellington - They still have their navy but at least they didn’t disband all my land troops. I hope they stay at peace for the next three years so I will have something left to work with.

Fulcrumvale - Japan can’t hope to take on the Ming especially since the Ming are allies with Manchu and Korea. I keep hoping that alliance breaks up but so far no deal. Manchu is getting close to the goal province and I’m a little worried. :(

Stroph1-germanpeon - I played the TO in an early attempt to learn the game and I thought they would be easy to play. I was trying to expand to the south and was making progress, which was just about the time the world came crushing down on me and left me as flat as a pancake.

Jhhowell - I’m working under the probably complete misconception that your location has an impact on your discoveries. So if I have a province near India it should improve my chances of getting discovers in that part of the world and if I have good relations with a country in that area it will also help out. But I have no knowledge of that being true. I’ll post a shot of what Japan can see in that area or the world in my next game post. It’s not much.

I’m going to leave the Pope alone. It’s just not worth the hassle since I hope to be pushing east by the mid 1500s.

RedBaron1918 - They are still holding on to what they’ve captured but as you can see from the snap shot above it isn’t without a price. I don’t think the AI can be crazy enough to DOW someone considering it’s situation but if Lithuania decides to they can walk over the TO right now. Maybe they did try and this is the result?

Coz1 - You have no idea how prophetic you are about Japan needing every ship they can get. You see in the next post coming up today.

Joe
 
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It would be extremely sad if that rebel army wandered to the east and forced the surrender of half your army, due to the 10 to 1 rule... (or hell, they may just kill that one guy...)
 
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