Stroph1 said:Picking on Brunei is a low blow. I may have to start up a game and pick on somebody from one of your tales!
Nice start.
First thing I thought of when picking on Brunei was your AAR.
Joe
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First thing I thought of when picking on Brunei was your AAR.
Joe
1463 Teutonic Order
Not bad. Several provinces make up the country but they aren’t particularly rich but I have almost 600 ducats in the treasury. Lets take a look around and see what I have to work with.
Wow from the look of all those merchants in several COTs it looks like they are very successful with trade. Damn I might have to spend some time sending out a few myself.
The AI chose a National Idea and it’s:
Well they are a Theocracy so I guess it makes sense and it will help in recovering stability so I won’t complain.
Now how about their investment sliders? Why in the hell is the Teutonic Order investing so much into Naval research? Go figure.
I adjust the sliders and put everything into Production.
Everything is going to take awhile to advance so I’m going with something that will produce an economic return. I could go for trade but I have difficulty in wrapping my mind around the idea of spending the time sending out merchants. Yea I know I could send my kids to college with the money I made from trading so since they already have a good head start I’ll try to continue sending them but how long before boredom sets in and freezes my hand into a claw of non responsive rigidity that would make Captain Hook’s hook look as dexterous as a come hither wave from a street corner hooker looking to get her claws into my. . . Wait a minute where was I? Oh yea I’ll keep sending merchants for now.
I also don’t like my advisors. Have you ever seen a more humorless bunch of stiffs in your life?
So lets try a different approach with this gang. I call them the age before beauty crowd. No more naval or trade crap for me.
Okay so what are my options? I could go East but I have the same problem as Japan in that I have a large country, Lithuania, that usually grows very large during the game and should be avoided at all costs. Since it’s too large for me to be able to afford to send it gifts to improve relations I’m going to try to bypass it. Instead of going South like Japan I’m going to look North toward Novgorod.
Not bad. Several provinces make up the country but they aren’t particularly rich but I have almost 600 ducats in the treasury. Lets take a look around and see what I have to work with.
Wow from the look of all those merchants in several COTs it looks like they are very successful with trade. Damn I might have to spend some time sending out a few myself.
The AI chose a National Idea and it’s:
Well they are a Theocracy so I guess it makes sense and it will help in recovering stability so I won’t complain.
Now how about their investment sliders? Why in the hell is the Teutonic Order investing so much into Naval research? Go figure.
I adjust the sliders and put everything into Production.
Everything is going to take awhile to advance so I’m going with something that will produce an economic return. I could go for trade but I have difficulty in wrapping my mind around the idea of spending the time sending out merchants. Yea I know I could send my kids to college with the money I made from trading so since they already have a good head start I’ll try to continue sending them but how long before boredom sets in and freezes my hand into a claw of non responsive rigidity that would make Captain Hook’s hook look as dexterous as a come hither wave from a street corner hooker looking to get her claws into my. . . Wait a minute where was I? Oh yea I’ll keep sending merchants for now.
I also don’t like my advisors. Have you ever seen a more humorless bunch of stiffs in your life?
So lets try a different approach with this gang. I call them the age before beauty crowd. No more naval or trade crap for me.
Okay so what are my options? I could go East but I have the same problem as Japan in that I have a large country, Lithuania, that usually grows very large during the game and should be avoided at all costs. Since it’s too large for me to be able to afford to send it gifts to improve relations I’m going to try to bypass it. Instead of going South like Japan I’m going to look North toward Novgorod.
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Forgive me, I am just babbling for a moment. No offense or argument intended.
Wouldn't not achieving your goal be a win? Assuming you hold Badakshan at the end of the game?
If your goal is to take and hold Badakhshan, and all three nations share that goal, if one nation takes Badakhshan, then it is the goal of the other two nations to prevent the first nation from holding Badakhshan and achieving it's goal, and achieve their own.
Ofcourse, you could take the easy route and just sit back with the other two nations, but you wouldn't do that, now would you?
It seems to me that having each nation prevent the other nations from achieving their goal (and in turn attempting to achieve it's own goal) would be a "win" of sorts as well.
Anyway! Good luck, can't wait to see how it unfolds.
Wouldn't not achieving your goal be a win? Assuming you hold Badakshan at the end of the game?
If your goal is to take and hold Badakhshan, and all three nations share that goal, if one nation takes Badakhshan, then it is the goal of the other two nations to prevent the first nation from holding Badakhshan and achieving it's goal, and achieve their own.
Ofcourse, you could take the easy route and just sit back with the other two nations, but you wouldn't do that, now would you?
It seems to me that having each nation prevent the other nations from achieving their goal (and in turn attempting to achieve it's own goal) would be a "win" of sorts as well.
Anyway! Good luck, can't wait to see how it unfolds.
Novgorod is allied with Moscowy and Tver so I’m going to have to wait for the right opportunity before doing anything in that direction. I’m allied with Riga and the Knights. Hmm Riga might be of help but the Knights?
I spend the early years building up my army. My navy already has 13 ships, mostly galleys, and I don’t know what I’m going to use them for but I’ll keep them around just in case. In case of what I’m not sure but what the hell.
Finally in 1464 I notice that Novgorod is at war with Kazan and Sidir. So I watch their armies, close to ten thousand strong, march off into the sunrise. Yea I know it doesn’t sound right but they are marching East after all. I wait a few months and then declare war. Riga and the Knights join me and Tver and Moscowy joins Novgorod. I take the -2 stability hit but with Church Attendance Duty it’s a minor problem.
Now with everything in life there is the good side and the bad side. Being by nature a jovial fellow I will start with the good news. Several of Novgorod’s provinces are unfortified so I have little problem defeating the only army of Novgorod (2,000 strong) and taking Ingermanland, Neva, Klxholm, Olonetys and Archangelsk. It’s now 1465 and I get a little extra help when Sweden declares war on Novgorod, cool. I’m riding high as I besiege Novgorod’s capital with seven thousand men when I notice a Moscowy army of eight thousand heading my way. Okay not to panic after all I may win the battle, right? Yea right. So I get pushed out of Novgorod and all the other provinces by this Moscowy army. Afterwards they march back to their home in Vologda. I bid my time and recover from the devastating attrition that you suffer during winter in low support provinces and the loses from battle and find myself ready to counter attack in the spring. So off I go to once again wreak havoc on Novgorod only to see once again the Moscowy army march my way and swat me back across the border to my country. WTF? Ah the fond memories of EU2 and allied computer armies marching around and bumping into invisible walls that stopped them from helping while I stood against the world slowly drowning in a tide of enemy armies while I waited for my allies to wake up and help me out. That doesn’t seem to be the case with EU3, at least to as great an extent. I’m not kidding you every time I struck my toes over the border and wiggled them in the direction of Moscowy they’d start marching toward me and then proceed to kick me out of, fill in the name of the province, Novgorod. I finally had to accept the fact that between the heavy attrition (provinces with support limits of 1 or 2 in winter is a real killer) and an enemy computer ally on steroids with a one track mind bent on seeing how deep they could pound my butt into the permafrost in an attempt to reach China, forced me to throw the towel in and beg for a white peace, which in 1466 Novgorod accepted.
Sorry if you can't see my tail between my legs as I retreat from Novgorod.
I lick my wounds and face the fact that I’m not going to be able to do a lot more this segment but then suddenly I enter the twilight Zone and start dreaming of another way to move East. What if I ask for military access with Lithuania? Yea right. Nevertheless the option says “maybe” and I figure what the hell and punch the tab and Lithuania says okay! Why this stroke of good fortune I have no idea but it changes things considerably.
So now I may not have to fight my way North and then East. If the Teutonic Order can hang onto this military access for my next turn it could prove very advantages for my next step.
Meanwhile in 1468 I get to move one of my sliders in and I chose Free Subjects. I’m beginning to think I have an obsession with Free subjects, no idea why. Looking back on it I think offensive or land would be a better choice.
In 1470 I decide to check things out in Lithuania and find them in a difficult war with Kazan. I’m not sure who I should be hoping wins the war? Both are large countries that I will most likely have to cross to get to the goal. So the turn ends and not a lot changed. Okay so I’m going to have to reexamine my strategy for the Teutonic order.
I spend the early years building up my army. My navy already has 13 ships, mostly galleys, and I don’t know what I’m going to use them for but I’ll keep them around just in case. In case of what I’m not sure but what the hell.
Finally in 1464 I notice that Novgorod is at war with Kazan and Sidir. So I watch their armies, close to ten thousand strong, march off into the sunrise. Yea I know it doesn’t sound right but they are marching East after all. I wait a few months and then declare war. Riga and the Knights join me and Tver and Moscowy joins Novgorod. I take the -2 stability hit but with Church Attendance Duty it’s a minor problem.
Now with everything in life there is the good side and the bad side. Being by nature a jovial fellow I will start with the good news. Several of Novgorod’s provinces are unfortified so I have little problem defeating the only army of Novgorod (2,000 strong) and taking Ingermanland, Neva, Klxholm, Olonetys and Archangelsk. It’s now 1465 and I get a little extra help when Sweden declares war on Novgorod, cool. I’m riding high as I besiege Novgorod’s capital with seven thousand men when I notice a Moscowy army of eight thousand heading my way. Okay not to panic after all I may win the battle, right? Yea right. So I get pushed out of Novgorod and all the other provinces by this Moscowy army. Afterwards they march back to their home in Vologda. I bid my time and recover from the devastating attrition that you suffer during winter in low support provinces and the loses from battle and find myself ready to counter attack in the spring. So off I go to once again wreak havoc on Novgorod only to see once again the Moscowy army march my way and swat me back across the border to my country. WTF? Ah the fond memories of EU2 and allied computer armies marching around and bumping into invisible walls that stopped them from helping while I stood against the world slowly drowning in a tide of enemy armies while I waited for my allies to wake up and help me out. That doesn’t seem to be the case with EU3, at least to as great an extent. I’m not kidding you every time I struck my toes over the border and wiggled them in the direction of Moscowy they’d start marching toward me and then proceed to kick me out of, fill in the name of the province, Novgorod. I finally had to accept the fact that between the heavy attrition (provinces with support limits of 1 or 2 in winter is a real killer) and an enemy computer ally on steroids with a one track mind bent on seeing how deep they could pound my butt into the permafrost in an attempt to reach China, forced me to throw the towel in and beg for a white peace, which in 1466 Novgorod accepted.
Sorry if you can't see my tail between my legs as I retreat from Novgorod.
I lick my wounds and face the fact that I’m not going to be able to do a lot more this segment but then suddenly I enter the twilight Zone and start dreaming of another way to move East. What if I ask for military access with Lithuania? Yea right. Nevertheless the option says “maybe” and I figure what the hell and punch the tab and Lithuania says okay! Why this stroke of good fortune I have no idea but it changes things considerably.
So now I may not have to fight my way North and then East. If the Teutonic Order can hang onto this military access for my next turn it could prove very advantages for my next step.
Meanwhile in 1468 I get to move one of my sliders in and I chose Free Subjects. I’m beginning to think I have an obsession with Free subjects, no idea why. Looking back on it I think offensive or land would be a better choice.
In 1470 I decide to check things out in Lithuania and find them in a difficult war with Kazan. I’m not sure who I should be hoping wins the war? Both are large countries that I will most likely have to cross to get to the goal. So the turn ends and not a lot changed. Okay so I’m going to have to reexamine my strategy for the Teutonic order.
Kanil said:
No problem.
1) If I hold Badakshan one of the countries wins but only one. A win is only by the coutry that controls the province. So yes if any of the countries controls the province I win but the question is not only can they complete the task but which country will do it? That's the question. If I selected a single country it would be simple but with three as I pointed out in the original post,
"when one on the countries captures the province then the other two can attack that province."
So a country not only has to capture and hold the province from the computer but also from me,
playing the other two countries. Could get complicated couldn't it? 2) Correct.
3) I play no favorites. I will try to the best of my ability to win with each country, which isn't really a problem since they will have difficulty coming into contact with each other for many years.
4) True. In my EU 2 AAR the goal was whoever controled the most provinces won and in the last trun they were allowed to attack each other so they affected who won. Here the concept is the same but only if one of them conquers the (winning) province, which will allow direct intervention by me playing the other countries. I have no idea if they will ever actually fight each other. In fact there is no way of knowing if any of the three countries will even get close to the goal. I'm playing the game as I write up what happens so don't ask me what's going to happen.
As cheif Ragusa wrote this could be an impossible task. Sometimes the trip to a destination is the best part of a vacation.
Joe
The mighty Muscovite Army is watching you. Looks like you will have to wait for Muscovy to be in trouble if you want to move north.
You think wrestling Badakhshan from the Timurid will be a challenge? Well brace yourself, in my current game, this province is owned by AI Ming, a AI Ming that could fight your Japan and your Teutonic Order at the same time.
The problem will not be the ahistorical moves made by the AI, it will be their ability to move in terra incognita without conquistadors that will cause problems.
You think wrestling Badakhshan from the Timurid will be a challenge? Well brace yourself, in my current game, this province is owned by AI Ming, a AI Ming that could fight your Japan and your Teutonic Order at the same time.
The problem will not be the ahistorical moves made by the AI, it will be their ability to move in terra incognita without conquistadors that will cause problems.
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Very interesting chapter. I'm actually quite impressed by the TO that the ai left you, apart from their research goals of course. Also impressed by the ai's handling of you invading their ally. Good to see some initiative by them.
Impressive performance by the Muscovites. An honoured military alliance with Lithuania would have helped keep those Muscovites off your back, whilst you digested Novgorod.
Do you check on the progress of your other countries during yoour time away from them?
Do you check on the progress of your other countries during yoour time away from them?
Seems like the ORder is going to require some tricky manoeuvring. I think Japan probably as the edge.
Japan does indeed have the edge. Between an unhealthy Teuton AI obsession with water, and the Russians, you may have trouble in Europe.
Well, perheaps the Teuton AI is going for the New World? This would allow Storey to bypass his self-imposed limitations .
Maciek
.It's me who should thank you for providing me with a few hours of great fun. I hope that you'll have enough enthusiasm and time to finish this one.
Maciek
Well, you've got me in. Great concept too. And how appropriate that Muscovy is so... well... bolshy! Good on them.
Billy bob - Not sure I can say they will be fun when they show up but it will be interesting.
JaxomCA - Moscowy was at war along with Novgorod and Tver against Kazan. I couldn’t see that army when I declared war so I was surprised when it showed up. Novgorod never had more than two thousand men fighting me and it should have been a cakewalk. What was weird was that Moscowy never invaded the TO. I’d be forced back to my country and spend the time recovering before heading out again. There are three provinces in Novgorod that I can see that are fortified. If I besieged any of them it would trigger the Moscowy army into action and I just didn’t have enough morale to overcome them. This was repeated several times before I threw in the towel, after crying into it, and sued for peace.
I’ve played around with four games in Asia and in all of them Ming became huge. In one the Timurid fought them off but in the other three the Ming pushed into the Timurid Empire. Twice taking Badakshan. As I said this might be an impossible challenge but let’s see what happens.
Duke of Wellington - I’ve played the next country just now and they also impressed me with how they were running their country. It’s scary when a computer looks like its doing as good as you could do.
Chief Ragusa - My relations with Lithuania aren’t good enough to get into an alliance and its going to cost me too much to raise our relations so an alliance with them, which I’d like to have, isn’t going to happen unless the AI can manage it while I’m away.
I don’t deliberately follow the other countries while I play but if they can see each other occasionally a widow with pop up telling me that something has happened. The TO can see my next selection and I was very unhappy to see what the AI did with TO while I was gone.
Stnylan - Hard to tell yet. Japan has an advantage defensively but that’s about all.
J. Passepartout - I’m worried that Lithuania may be one of the lucky countries. The only thing that would be worst is if the Ming were also lucky.
Mlepkows - You know you might be right about the TO going for the new world. It will be interesting to se if it continues to try after I’ve changed it’s advisors and sliders.
Fulcrumvale - Thanks for stopping by.
Cohort - Well I’m looking forward to getting my revenge on Moscowy but I think patience is called for. A common mistake I make early on is trying to do too much too soon. But it’s too much fun trying to stretch the boundaries of what I can accomplish in the first couple of turns.
Next part coming soon.
Joe
JaxomCA - Moscowy was at war along with Novgorod and Tver against Kazan. I couldn’t see that army when I declared war so I was surprised when it showed up. Novgorod never had more than two thousand men fighting me and it should have been a cakewalk. What was weird was that Moscowy never invaded the TO. I’d be forced back to my country and spend the time recovering before heading out again. There are three provinces in Novgorod that I can see that are fortified. If I besieged any of them it would trigger the Moscowy army into action and I just didn’t have enough morale to overcome them. This was repeated several times before I threw in the towel, after crying into it, and sued for peace.
I’ve played around with four games in Asia and in all of them Ming became huge. In one the Timurid fought them off but in the other three the Ming pushed into the Timurid Empire. Twice taking Badakshan. As I said this might be an impossible challenge but let’s see what happens.
Duke of Wellington - I’ve played the next country just now and they also impressed me with how they were running their country. It’s scary when a computer looks like its doing as good as you could do.
Chief Ragusa - My relations with Lithuania aren’t good enough to get into an alliance and its going to cost me too much to raise our relations so an alliance with them, which I’d like to have, isn’t going to happen unless the AI can manage it while I’m away.
I don’t deliberately follow the other countries while I play but if they can see each other occasionally a widow with pop up telling me that something has happened. The TO can see my next selection and I was very unhappy to see what the AI did with TO while I was gone.
Stnylan - Hard to tell yet. Japan has an advantage defensively but that’s about all.
J. Passepartout - I’m worried that Lithuania may be one of the lucky countries. The only thing that would be worst is if the Ming were also lucky.
Mlepkows - You know you might be right about the TO going for the new world. It will be interesting to se if it continues to try after I’ve changed it’s advisors and sliders.
Fulcrumvale - Thanks for stopping by.
Cohort - Well I’m looking forward to getting my revenge on Moscowy but I think patience is called for. A common mistake I make early on is trying to do too much too soon. But it’s too much fun trying to stretch the boundaries of what I can accomplish in the first couple of turns.
Next part coming soon.
Joe
I was going to use a Muslim country like Morocco for the last of our trio of contestants but I found out that it wouldn’t work because they can all see Badakhshan, which gives them a tremendous advantage so I selected another country, Sicily. On one hand they have the advantage of being closer than the Teutonic Order or Japan to Badakhskan but on the other hand they are probably going to have to deal with the Ottomans, Mameluks and a few other very large and mean countries. They are also the weakest of the three and hell I like playing them.
Sicily 1473
They have four provinces in Italy and have picked up Nice in France. There isn’t much money in the treasury but that’s because the AI is busy building Workshops. Not bad, not bad at all.
I’m allied with Aragon and Urbino and have a respectable reputation. But my small manpower limit and poor income is going to be a problem.
My advisors aren’t anything to get excited about but I don’t see any better replacements so I’m not going to change them.
The AI is smart enough to push everything into land investment and I see no reason to change that. Good lord the AI is beginning to remind me of myself.
The AI chose Military Drill for it’s National idea. Early in the game this will be helpful but if I understand it correctly is has less effect as the game goes on.
All in all I’m impressed with the decisions that the AI has made in running the country. Now let’s see if I can do any better.
It’s time to do what I’ve done with the other countries and that means build up my army to my manpower limit and start to look around for a clue as to how to start working toward my goal. My first thought was to conquer Cyprus and use the island as a safe launching pad for invading the Middle East but I sent a fleet over and found the Ottomans already besieging the island. In fact the Ottomans have been busy also expanding in the Balkans and I think I’ll stay away from them this turn if I can help it. One amusing thing happened with the Ottomans. They reached a peace agreement with Cyprus involving a little money and I thought that this was my chance to grab the island. I loaded up my men and headed for Cyprus. Just before I got there one of the Ottoman’s allies declared war on Cyprus and the Ottomans joined them and with the same men that were still there started besieging the island before I could even declare war. Very rude of them if you ask me.
However as I continued looking around for someone to pick on I struck gold. I found Dulkadir, who was very weak and without an ally. Hmm what the heck you’ve got to start somewhere right? I declare war in 1476 and land a two thousand man army in Karaman ( I only have two cogs ) and begin a siege. I have to ferry men, two thousand at a time but fortunately Dulkadir only has a two thousand man army and is unable to dislodge me from my siege. Finally I capture their three provinces and get Karaman in the peace agreement.
Okay I have a toehold in the Middle East, which leads to two questions. The first is can I hold it, which is put to the test when rebels kick my army into the sea and besiege the province in 1481. I have to build more cogs so that I can land a large enough army to defeat the rebels but finally I succeed.
SO I’m loading my fleet when this pops up. Yikes The Order felt it necessary to pick on the biggest country in the area? Damn.
The war was short and at least they didn’t lose much. Also I've reached land tech two and switch my investments into Government tech.
So the second question of the two questions that I mentioned earlier is can the AI hold on to Karaman?
Now I wonder what Japan has been up to?
Sicily 1473
They have four provinces in Italy and have picked up Nice in France. There isn’t much money in the treasury but that’s because the AI is busy building Workshops. Not bad, not bad at all.
I’m allied with Aragon and Urbino and have a respectable reputation. But my small manpower limit and poor income is going to be a problem.
My advisors aren’t anything to get excited about but I don’t see any better replacements so I’m not going to change them.
The AI is smart enough to push everything into land investment and I see no reason to change that. Good lord the AI is beginning to remind me of myself.
The AI chose Military Drill for it’s National idea. Early in the game this will be helpful but if I understand it correctly is has less effect as the game goes on.
All in all I’m impressed with the decisions that the AI has made in running the country. Now let’s see if I can do any better.
It’s time to do what I’ve done with the other countries and that means build up my army to my manpower limit and start to look around for a clue as to how to start working toward my goal. My first thought was to conquer Cyprus and use the island as a safe launching pad for invading the Middle East but I sent a fleet over and found the Ottomans already besieging the island. In fact the Ottomans have been busy also expanding in the Balkans and I think I’ll stay away from them this turn if I can help it. One amusing thing happened with the Ottomans. They reached a peace agreement with Cyprus involving a little money and I thought that this was my chance to grab the island. I loaded up my men and headed for Cyprus. Just before I got there one of the Ottoman’s allies declared war on Cyprus and the Ottomans joined them and with the same men that were still there started besieging the island before I could even declare war. Very rude of them if you ask me.
However as I continued looking around for someone to pick on I struck gold. I found Dulkadir, who was very weak and without an ally. Hmm what the heck you’ve got to start somewhere right? I declare war in 1476 and land a two thousand man army in Karaman ( I only have two cogs ) and begin a siege. I have to ferry men, two thousand at a time but fortunately Dulkadir only has a two thousand man army and is unable to dislodge me from my siege. Finally I capture their three provinces and get Karaman in the peace agreement.
Okay I have a toehold in the Middle East, which leads to two questions. The first is can I hold it, which is put to the test when rebels kick my army into the sea and besiege the province in 1481. I have to build more cogs so that I can land a large enough army to defeat the rebels but finally I succeed.
SO I’m loading my fleet when this pops up. Yikes The Order felt it necessary to pick on the biggest country in the area? Damn.
The war was short and at least they didn’t lose much. Also I've reached land tech two and switch my investments into Government tech.
So the second question of the two questions that I mentioned earlier is can the AI hold on to Karaman?
Now I wonder what Japan has been up to?
One of the problems with Japan is that you won't get any news about Sicily or the Teutons until the game is pretty well advanced.
You could try offering to become Lithuania's vassal? That might increase relations to a point where they want you as their ally. [Edit: That was a soft way to lose 200 ducats.]
The TO appears to be a trading republic. The ai is favoring trade and navy. It thinks it's Venice. It also has territory separated by Riga, hence the help with stability as its first NI. Building up the treasury is a good idea. It just does not square with how the Knights did operate. Land and trade would be better.
I did assume that after you left, the ai would revert to its previous strategy.
The TO appears to be a trading republic. The ai is favoring trade and navy. It thinks it's Venice. It also has territory separated by Riga, hence the help with stability as its first NI. Building up the treasury is a good idea. It just does not square with how the Knights did operate. Land and trade would be better.
I did assume that after you left, the ai would revert to its previous strategy.
I look forward to the answers to those questions. Probably lucky you aren't due for the TO now. Sicily must be the trickiest of the three countries. This amount of ai skill is odd, soon you might find yourself merely a caretaker for the ai. To that end perhaps you should hope the ai loses to Lithuania.
I had already noticed that it's possible to choose another country when loading a savegame, but saw no sense in this up to now, but that's really an interesting way to play the game. However, I think I couldn't do this as I'd be too anxious about what the AI is doing during my absence...