Thrall, Resort and Penal Worlds seem kinda weak/awkward

[Vitruvian Guar]

I've just got a brilliant idea: thrall worlds + synth ascention.

The main disadvantage of synth ascention is that mechanical pops grow slowly. But if you can have a special planet, where you can breed organics very fast and then assimilate them...

 

[Xaelyn]

That's just wrong.
Proles CANNOT do other jobs than worker jobs.
Ordinary slaves however can take specific specialist jobs.


So let me reiterate my problem, since it seems like you're talking about something completely different.

Slaves and overseers are both worker jobs.
Because slave jobs produce resources and slaves have bonuses to resource production they will ALWAYS fill the slave jobs before the overseer jobs.
In effect, the slaves would rather be whipped, than swing the whip.
If the overseer job was a specialist job, the slaves would prioritize upgrading to whipping other slaves.
It would make a ton of sense.
So actually, changing overseer jobs to specialist jobs would change how the actual behavior on the planet works.

I just explained to you why it isn't wrong.

The trait description that says they cannot do ruler or specialists jobs is just text. The actual thing restricting them from those jobs is a line in the jobs requirements that says

NOT = { has_trait = trait_syncretic_proles }

That line is not currently present in the overseers job, therefore you can quite simply change the job strata to specialist and syncretics will still be able to be overseers.

I agree with you that making overseers specialist tier would make sense, so much so that I went and did it:

Note the serviles trait.

 

[FleetingRain]

Your problem with crime might be because... well, if you don't have a penal world, then you have enforcers, so of course you don't have crime. If you have a penal colony, you can cut the enforcers and some amenities and put some more productive buildings on those planets. In the new specialization system it's usually better to have as many building slots doing just one job, and more you can "delegate" crime-reducing and amenity-producing effects out of the planet surface, the better. There's also very little crime to begin with if you're playing some fair society without unemployment. For example authoritarian have always some crime everywhere if they don't build precinct houses.

Dude, my only enforcers come from the capital building. I literally do nothing and have zero crime.

 

[Flame13223]

Resort worlds are also awkward with housing and jobs...since you can't really build a lot of buildings you just spam clerk jobs and houses and have nothing else to use on them. Luxury houses make sense but clerk spam doesn't really, hell most buildings make no sense for a resort world right now. It should come with unique buildings for it...

 

[Strangedane]

I just explained to you why it isn't wrong.

The trait description that says they cannot do ruler or specialists jobs is just text. The actual thing restricting them from those jobs is a line in the jobs requirements that says

NOT = { has_trait = trait_syncretic_proles }

That line is not currently present in the overseers job, therefore you can quite simply change the job strata to specialist and syncretics will still be able to be overseers.

I agree with you that making overseers specialist tier would make sense, so much so that I went and did it:

Note the serviles trait.

I see, thanks for clearing that up.
So in an unmodded game the UI does not lie, and the proles cannot have other jobs than worker jobs, or can they in fact hold entertainer jobs?

I see that from a coding point of view, that the prole description is merely flavour, but if the ingame mechanics back this up, there's no reason to think that the code isn't specifically made to cater to the description. From a philosophical point of view you could argue that the flavour defines how the code will be written and therefore IS the determining factor for which jobs are allowed.

This is all irrelevant of course and making overseers specialists just makes tons of sense, but should be reflected in prole flavour text regardless, if we want to keep allowing them as overseers.

 

[Xaelyn]

I see, thanks for clearing that up.
So in an unmodded game the UI does not lie, and the proles cannot have other jobs than worker jobs, or can they in fact hold entertainer jobs?

I see that from a coding point of view, that the prole description is merely flavour, but if the ingame mechanics back this up, there's no reason to think that the code isn't specifically made to cater to the description. From a philosophical point of view you could argue that the flavour defines how the code will be written and therefore IS the determining factor for which jobs are allowed.

This is all irrelevant of course and making overseers specialists just makes tons of sense, but should be reflected in prole flavour text regardless, if we want to keep allowing them as overseers.

Proles are banned from entertainer jobs, even if they are set to domestic servitude.

It seems there isn't necessarily any benefit to setting the overseer job to specialist since that doesn't actually seem to change it's weighting. My pops were still perfectly happy to remain workers instead of overseers where their traits caused them to weighted towards the available worker jobs. In short, the weighting that causes pops to prefer higher strata jobs seems to actually be tied to the jobs themselves rather than the strata.

 

[Strangedane]

Proles are banned from entertainer jobs, even if they are set to domestic servitude.

It seems there isn't necessarily any benefit to setting the overseer job to specialist since that doesn't actually seem to change it's weighting. My pops were still perfectly happy to remain workers instead of overseers where their traits caused them to weighted towards the available worker jobs. In short, the weighting that causes pops to prefer higher strata jobs seems to actually be tied to the jobs themselves rather than the strata.

Seems like a backwards way of setting it up, but pdx probably knows best.

This have been educational for me, thank you for taking the time to explain it twice.

 

[philosophergamer]

A few points: 1) The crime system needs to be rebalanced, I think everyone agrees on that point. It's way too easy to control and not generated enough by the basic game systems. As it is not an issue, Penal Colonies seem superfluous at the moment.
2) Resort worlds are a cool idea but automatically giving any planet, regardless of planet type and circumstances 100% habitability is just immersion breaking and ridiculous. Locking a resort world behind a Gaia World requirement or behind some other attraction/planetary modifier makes much more sense.
3) Thrall worlds need way more events, special buildings and maybe techs to be interesting. As they are currently implemented they are very underwhelming and other than RP reasons pretty useless.

Also, why are each of these decisions locked behind rare techs? So a spacefaring civilization needs to discover a technology to dump its slaves, criminals or undesirables on a crap planet? Or hey this awesome planet is a paradise and has some awesome beaches or (insert exotic sci-fi attraction) we better discover how to make resorts so our people can visit it?

 

[ArmChairAttila]

I like all three options a lot. Thrall worlds are great dumping grounds for unwanted slaves, easy to use in conjunction with the slave market. Resort worlds help cut down on CG's building slots through out my empire. It basically is a +15% empire wide mineral buff. Prison planet works great in the late game when you start stacking planets with over 150 pops and especially good for the ecumenopolis.

 

[siegeforvictory]

I quiet like thrall worlds. I have used them for 2 purposes:
-quickly grow a slave laborforce on a planet with lots of possible mineraldistricts, remove thrallworld when there are enough slaves, to get the 'mining world' bonus and build the mineral bonus building.

-permanent on some lesser rural worlds, worlds with low max districts but enough possible resourcedistricts to fill them all, but not really specialised into 1 resource. I first build it up a bit till I have build the mineral building, since it isn't removed upon making it a thrall-world, it is only impossible to build after turning it into a thrallworld. so eventually this planet only loses out on the 'rural world' bonus, but in return for that it guarantees growth of slaves(so I don't have to force population growth, makes managing my overal empire population easier), and slaves that grow past the cap of jobs just turn into toilers, not creating unemployment issues. and then later those toilers can be shipped to a new eucumenopolis to work as clerks for example. so it reduces (micro) management of insignificant/minor rural worlds, while doubling as a supply/reserve pool of slaves.

penal colonies I like as dumping spots of excess pops, but that's a bit situational. but if I accidently get an outside species somewhere, I notice too late and it spread to growing on multiple planets screwing up my population, I can just dump them all on my penal colony so they don't cause unrest on my productive planets(while they are either for sale on the slave market or turned to undesirables). and with no housing on the penal colony any pops dumped on it decine too just from being there. also nice later game when I have too much population growth or too much of one species, just dump them all on a penal colony tombworld without housing. could also work for conquered planets.

 

[Foefaller]

Don't Penal Worlds have a higher Immigration Pull? Seems like you could use it to pull an Australia and populate a new colony a bit faster than normal.

But yeah, the reduced crime isn't an appeal because unless you have a criminal syndicate as a neighbor or you're about to max out Fen Habbanis, you will likely never need to build any buildings for enforcers beyond what the capital building already gives you.

As for resort worlds, 15% global amenities is actually a big deal, not because you might need fewer entertainers, but because extra amenities increases happiness, ergo stability and with it the resource output for all your pops. Having one is essentially an empire-wide boost to all incomes (though I will admit it would take a fairly wide empire and/or lots of Paradise Domes for that to translate to a greater actual increase than a normal world might bring.) Plus sometimes you get a tidal locked world that's size 15 or higher and with only half the available districts, why not use it for a planet type that uses no districts at all?