Thrall, Resort and Penal Worlds seem kinda weak/awkward

[FleetingRain]

Yes, three complaints in one thread! Such a deal.


First, Thrall Worlds. They are a really cool idea, but they feel a bit too weak.

Their only strength is the +50% Pop Growth. I believe the idea the devs had was to colonize a feature-rich world (Gaia etc) and then exploit its resources with a slave-heavy build. However, they also kinda screwed it up with the building restrictions, as such worlds can't build the Energy Nexus nor the Mineral Purification Hub lmao. Food Processing Centers is allowed however, which is nonsensical as Food is already abundant in the game (+50% base production, Ring Worlds, Agrarian Idyll, Hydroponic Farms, Livestock). This means that, unless you really want food, you're better off with a normal world filled with slaves for the two neglected buildings, while making some 9-size shitplanet a Thrall World for the pop growth.

So, if possible, I'd suggest that either A) Energy Nexus and Mineral Purification Hub are allowed in Thrall Worlds, or B) Districts get +1 job in Thrall Worlds. B would essentially be a +50% production modifier lmao, so it'd need something to balance it out; maybe +50 Crime, or -10 Stability, or... or something. A is more straightforward, but it's in B that the novelties would reside.

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Then, Resort Worlds. They really irk me out, jeez. I perfectly understand their building/district restrictions and really like the +1 clerk per 2 pops modifier, it works great. But the efficiency of the Resort World is irrelevant: it doesn't matter if it's a 9-size Tomb World or Paripayda, it will still give +15% Amenities and +15% Imigration Pull to the empire. So, like, why bother lmao, just plop it somewhere and forget about it.

I really think the modifier should scale according to the amount of Amenities you produce in the Resort. Maybe the current scaling for Happiness (200% = +20%) should be used by the Resort empire-wide.

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Finally, Penal Colonies. I have never used them. Why? Because lol crime. It's honestly pretty irrelevant in the game, Enforcers are too good, Amenities are too abundant, people simply don't commit enough crimes in my opinion. Only thing I can say is that, just like Resort Worlds, the size of the colony doesn't affect the modifier, which I find to be terrible.

In this case, what I would suggest is that Trade Value should also affect Crime in planets. I mean, pirates may attack my trade routes but criminals don't care about the trade produced on the land? What are they thinking?

 

[Namfuak]

I haven't tried thrall worlds, but resort worlds and penal colonies have a size requirement of 15, so having to use a medium sized planet is quite a bit of opportunity cost in itself. It sounds like your main problem with penal colonies is really that crime is broken, so it would be difficult to balance them when the mechanic they are intended to interact with is effectively a non-issue right now.

With resort worlds though, you are right that the opportunity cost to make one and forget about it probably doesn't outweigh the benefit. In a perfect world, I think they should be able to export their excess amenities around the empire instead of giving a flat bonus - this would make developing them actually important. In exchange, maybe give them something like a "tourist area" district that you can build 1/3 of the planet's district size on (so if you could build 15 cities, you can build 5 of these areas), which are basically luxury residences with a clerk job. This would mean you are still pretty limited in the population on the planet, but have enough to actually make them produce amenities to export. It would be nifty if they even got a unique building or two, but that may be too much to ask. The planet's habitability with your empire's dominant species and any happiness bonuses/penalties from terrain features could also affect the amenities export - this would give some incentive to put it somewhere at least halfway decent, unlike now where you may as well find the least habitable planet that's the right size since it doesn't matter (what ocean-dwelling race doesn't want to vacation in a scorching desert with dangerous predators?).

 

[FleetingRain]

Oh silly me, I forgot the size 15 restriction.

I don't think they do need special districts or whatnot, the infinite Clerks kinda cover that area with the Amenities already. It would be an intesresting approach however.

Funnily enough, it seems Resort Worlds have a 100% Habitability, so I guess the idea really is that there's room in the world for everyone, even the ocean-dwellers in a desert lol.

 

[Talanic]

You can easily develop a resort world. It just needs the upgraded Luxury Housing, which gives +7 to population, plus amenities. A few of those and you wind up with enough population for a production building or two.

 

[Strangedane]

Thrall worlds are mostly fine.

I agree they could really use access to Energy Nexus and Mineral Purification Hub as their output is slightly hampered by lacking these, but the growth bonus is pretty damn great.
It's better than an cyto rev center and requires no upkeep once established.
There's also no size requirement on thrall worlds which means most size 8-14 planets with decent deposits are great candidates for some slavery treatment.

What irks me the most about the thrall worlds is that the overseer jobs arent specialist jobs and as such the thralls will take any resource gathering job first.
Slave huts are pretty decent for housing and unemployed thralls will generate amenities so they are pretty much fire and forget.

You can even pretty safely use it to grow a large slave working class on planets you intend to fully colonise later on, it's only 50 influence to remove thrall world status, this is particularly handy for syncretic authoritarians.

 

[FleetingRain]

Thrall worlds are mostly fine.

I agree they could really use access to Energy Nexus and Mineral Purification Hub as their output is slightly hampered by lacking these, but the growth bonus is pretty damn great.
It's better than an cyto rev center and requires no upkeep once established.
There's also no size requirement on thrall worlds which means most size 8-14 planets with decent deposits are great candidates for some slavery treatment.

Exactly, they're great to get those pops running, but not exactly for resources due to not having those two buildings, and that's what irks me.

What irks me the most about the thrall worlds is that the overseer jobs arent specialist jobs and as such the thralls will take any resource gathering job first.

The real issue is that there's no hardcoded/scripted priority for certain jobs and slaves also can't be Specialists, so we're left with this awkward situation.

Slave huts are pretty decent for housing and unemployed thralls will generate amenities so they are pretty much fire and forget.

In fact, Slave Huts are exactly only for the Toilers, as you can pretty much get all the Hosuing you need from districts+capital.

You can even pretty safely use it to grow a large slave working class on planets you intend to fully colonise later on, it's only 50 influence to remove thrall world status, this is particularly handy for syncretic authoritarians.

Nope, 250 Influence, just checked. Which is why my strategy of "activate Thrall World for a couple decades, deactivate it and then build the efficiency buildings" didn't work, I'd rather pay the resettling than the Influence.

 

[Namfuak]

Oh silly me, I forgot the size 15 restriction.

I don't think they do need special districts or whatnot, the infinite Clerks kinda cover that area with the Amenities already. It would be an intesresting approach however.

Funnily enough, it seems Resort Worlds have a 100% Habitability, so I guess the idea really is that there's room in the world for everyone, even the ocean-dwellers in a desert lol.

Sorry, I meant to mention that I would take out the free clerk job per pop. My thought was that relaxing the housing constraint while reducing the number of base jobs means that while you still need to put down some paradise domes to max out the building spaces in most planets, you have more free building slots for worker buildings rather than 1/3ish needing to be paradise domes. Basically, my idea is to turn resort worlds into worlds that uniquely focus on maximizing amenities, which is what I would expect an actual resort world to be.

 

[Xaelyn]

Slaves can be specialists if the job is scripted to allow it, as seen with entertainers and domestic servants. Making overseers specialist jobs that can be filled by slaves woud be as easy as changing the tier of the job to specialist.

 

[Strangedane]

In fact, Slave Huts are exactly only for the Toilers, as you can pretty much get all the Hosuing you need from districts+capital.



Nope, 250 Influence, just checked. Which is why my strategy of "activate Thrall World for a couple decades, deactivate it and then build the efficiency buildings" didn't work, I'd rather pay the resettling than the Influence.

1: Yes, but this also means you can move more slaves off the planet in bulk.

2: Bad memory on my part, I still think it's worth it for some planets.

Also, slaves can be specialists, proles however can't.

 

[Xaelyn]

Also, slaves can be specialists, proles however can't.

That check is scripted per job like all the others, it's not hardcoded. The only requirements to be an overseer are that the pop is enslaved and is on a thrall world that exists, changing the job strata won't change that.

 

[Alblaka]

The Thrall world is completely pointless.

I get:

• +50% Growth Rate
• A worker-level, slave-operated anti-crime building in a setup where crime is irrelevant
• A cheap housing building on a planet that cannot sustain industries (no specialists) anyways

I lose:

• The ability to grow my primary species, in an engine where having slave races means your primary population will very rarely grow because it first tries to grow the other species to the same size.
• The ability to build mineral and energy bonus buildings (you can exclusively build the farm +15/25% one).
• The ability to build any advanced/industry buildings.
• The planet's specialization bonus.
• The ability to build a Clinic that would already give +25% Growth Rate. (Unsure whether you can build Clone Vats for further +33% on a Thrall world).

From an efficiency PoV, I can't find any combination in which setting up one or more Thrall worlds would provide you with any sort of benefit. On their own, they're a downgrade over any 'properly developed' planet that supports both resource extraction and 'some' industry, and I didn't really feel like the Thrall world I set up really helped with population growth... given most of my planets were suffering from not having enough specialists in first place.


The Penal Colony is okay, simply because it has zero effect whatsoever. It reduces non-existant crime on other worlds, and increases non-existant crime on one world. But at least it doesn't provide any other massive disadvantages, so I'm fine keeping it as is, until Crime is overhauled/fixed.


Can't really judge the Resort World, because I've never once unlocked it prior to already having terraformed and colonized every single planet in reach. That said, I'm not sure going from +50 to +60 planetary amenities is worth losing an entire planet's production over, but the Immigration bonus could actually be relevant enough to warrant sacrificing a small planet over (after all, Pop Growth is All Growth).[/B]

 

[peenerz]

I like these ideas a lot! I think planet specific buildings would be cool tho, like guardhouse complexes for prison worlds that reduce crime and increase stability, state of the art recreational facility on resort worlds that add a few more jobs and boost happiness, etc

 

[Ariphaos]

Thrall worlds are great dumping grounds for 'unwanted' slave pops.

 

[Bobylein]

I like the idea that a resort world exports overproduced amneties, I want my resort world filled with xeno slaves that do domestic servitude "entertainer" jobs that everyone of my empire can visit...

Wow... now I feel dirty

 

[Strangedane]

That check is scripted per job like all the others, it's not hardcoded. The only requirements to be an overseer are that the pop is enslaved and is on a thrall world that exists, changing the job strata won't change that.

Don't know what you're getting at.

It will help the slaves prioritizing whipping other slaves rather than being whipped which makes a ton of sense.

 

[roman566]

Resort worlds are awesome. I have turned the size 15 tomb world into a resort world. My race had Gaia preference, I guess they love the vacations on nuclear wastelands or something. The planet even had a primitive race of cockroaches inhabiting it! Add radscorpions and deathclaws and we get Fallout in Stellaris.

 

[Matoro_TBS]

Your problem with crime might be because... well, if you don't have a penal world, then you have enforcers, so of course you don't have crime. If you have a penal colony, you can cut the enforcers and some amenities and put some more productive buildings on those planets. In the new specialization system it's usually better to have as many building slots doing just one job, and more you can "delegate" crime-reducing and amenity-producing effects out of the planet surface, the better. There's also very little crime to begin with if you're playing some fair society without unemployment. For example authoritarian have always some crime everywhere if they don't build precinct houses.

 

[Xaelyn]

Don't know what you're getting at.

It will help the slaves prioritizing whipping other slaves rather than being whipped which makes a ton of sense.

I mean that servile proles can be any job of any strata that isn't specifically scripted to exclude servile proles. All the default specialist and ruler jobs are scripted as such, but the only requirements to be an overseer are those I mentioned, which won't change if you change the strata of overseers to specialists.

 

[Strangedane]

I mean that servile proles can be any job of any strata that isn't specifically scripted to exclude servile proles. All the default specialist and ruler jobs are scripted as such, but the only requirements to be an overseer are those I mentioned, which won't change if you change the strata of overseers to specialists.

That's just wrong.
Proles CANNOT do other jobs than worker jobs It's part of the prole trait.
Ordinary slaves however can take specific specialist jobs.


So let me reiterate my problem, since it seems like you're talking about something completely different.

Slaves and overseers are both worker jobs.
Because slave jobs produce resources and slaves have bonuses to resource production they will ALWAYS fill the slave jobs before the overseer jobs.
In effect, the slaves would rather be whipped, than swing the whip.
If the overseer job was a specialist job, the slaves would prioritize upgrading to whipping other slaves.
It would make a ton of sense.
So actually, changing overseer jobs to specialist jobs would change how the actual behavior on the planet works.

Ed: I just reread the thread and it seems like we agree but are talking past each other.

 

[Mikhail_Mengsk]

The combination of lol/lmao and serious, well-thought ideas makes me giggle.