Thoughts on World Conquest

[heliostellar]

So, I've played this game for years and never thought to do a WC until the Divine Wind achievements showed up on the scene. Granted, Paradox has disabled the achievements, but I still want to achieve one and I've never been able to do one.

I've seen so many people on this forum say that the way to do it is to go England -> France -> HRE. I've tried this so many times, but I've found that:
a) I'm sorry, but it takes some effort to game all the decisions perfectly... Ireland, Scotland, Normandy, Paris... that's pretty much the way that it has to be done. You're also screwed if France and Burgundy ally.
b) there's a chance that you might not actually be able to form France if in the time that you're working on conquering them you start assimilating their provinces to English. Now you're stuck with crappy England decisions which are mostly naval focused... not optimal for conquering the Eurasia LAND mass. You'll also miss out on the decision to move to Absolute Monarchy for free. That basically spells doom for a WC. :unsure:
c) it's difficult to get into the HRE while also being a maniacal jerk in other parts of the globe: infamy!
d) it takes a lot of time to fully gobble up France. Time that HRE powerhouses are using to solidify their electoral positions. Now, you'll have to piss of the emperor multiple times to snag those electors from whoever has them. :angry:

I fired up a new game as Burgundy and I've had a totally different experience for several reasons:
1) Burgundy is built for war, war, war; especially LAND war :excl:
2) You're in a prime position to start attacking the hated frogs
3) You're one of the top nations to become the HRE right out of the gate. I didn't have to vassalize any electors to become the emperor. It was so early on that good relations alone got me there. I fought a couple of wars for various reasons and was able to quickly vassalize a couple of electors which I did just as an insurance policy for future elections
4) Becoming the emperor earlier gets you LOADS of authority real quick with all those defensive wars that you're in a prime position to easily win with that Burgundian army. It also puts you on excellent terms with all of the HRE members when you defend them in wars like the boss you are. I don't think there were any members for most of the game where I was less than 195 in relations.
5) You're a French culture, so it's inevitable for you to form France

I only had to enforce a handful of PUs: Poland, Spain, and Sweden to pretty much rule all of Europe. I took down England with the Imperialism CB, because France is in the awesome position of being able to get Absolute Monarchy early by decision. When Itook the imperial reform to force vassalize the HRE, I had one decline: Salzburg. For real? Salzburg versus literally all of Europe? Poor buggers apparently didn't see what they had coming. Anyways, my emperor has a new summer home there.

I'm primed to finish this WC pretty handily. I don't know why people think that going the England route is efficient at all. Even with all the free cores you get with that Paris mission, you don't need all that territory to form France. You only need something like 5 provinces to form France and then you get the whole country for free. Also, being a none French culture, you have to go through all the hassle of moving your capital and culture shifting. I think people think, oh well, if you start as England earlier then you don't have to worry about them later. Seriously, England is such a pushover that you can worry about later. I took them out in 2 minor wars that my vassals basically fought on my behalf.

Burgundy has it all going on.

 

[DDRJake]

I've only done WCs as hordes. Goldon Horde by late 18th century and Ryukyu in the 16th century. I can't be bothered dealing with infamy on such a scale.

Good luck with your attempt. If you can keep the naval powers under foot and get Holy Warring on a massive scale then you're laughing.

 

[Stillard]

I did my first WC as BUR --> HRE so I couldn't agree more with you.

However, England offers you the chance of getting a lot of free cores early on (all of the british islands + "france") while Burgundy only has a bunch of missions for cores on the netherlands, and, if you are lucky enough, maybe on France via inheritance. In other words, you can reach the "critical mass" to steamroll the world earlier as the English.

Right now I'm going for a non-HRE WC as France, I had to take over england right from the start at full infamy cost so I can see why those free cores on the gallia region could come in handy playing as the english.

Just my two cents.

 

[unmerged(487181)]

England is cool.

 

[Qemarar]

Prawnstar did his famous AAR under the infamy limit as England on very hard: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?591266-The-Historic-Inevitabilty-of-Epic-Failure

Secret is to max out the use of "Holy War" while also burning infamy during wars so you can fight them back to back.

 

[might]

So is burgundy

and PU with England

 

[heliostellar]

I've only done WCs as hordes. Goldon Horde by late 18th century and Ryukyu in the 16th century. I can't be bothered dealing with infamy on such a scale.

Good luck with your attempt. If you can keep the naval powers under foot and get Holy Warring on a massive scale then you're laughing.

I just can't deal with the constant uncontrollable war as a horde. Being at war with everyone all the time? It just feels the same as going over the infamy limit.

I have PU'd Spain which did me the favor of conquering half of Ireland, and almost all of Northern Africa. It's been helpful to keep them un-integrated because they are keeping me from overextension penalties.

 

[heliostellar]

However, England offers you the chance of getting a lot of free cores early on (all of the british islands + "france") while Burgundy only has a bunch of missions for cores on the netherlands, and, if you are lucky enough, maybe on France via inheritance. In other words, you can reach the "critical mass" to steamroll the world earlier as the English.

You do get cores on the islands, but I think the benefits of being an early emperor are much superior. You can get free cores with the Imperial Ban plus coming to the aid of HRE members often lets you roll out those reforms like it's your job.

I think you just need 5 provinces in northern France owned and cored and then just make France release vassals until it's off the map in order to re-form it yourself. Then you have all the free cores that you'd get from the Paris decision plus all of southern France as well. I think it's much easier to do and there's no real stability penalties whereas a capital move and culture shifting are huge investments.

 

[Blastaz]

The advantage of playing England is that you have locked out 2 of the colonisers by 1420. You are only one forced pu away from taking Castile down and basically securing the atlantic coast. While Burgundy can cheaply go into the HRE it lacks a way of taking England out in the first twenty years for virtually 0 bb.

 

[Munashiimaru]

I've had games on track to do no over infamy limits WC with Hansa and Teutonic order. Hansa you have the economic might and awesome decisions to out tech everyone like crazy. Slowly work towards forming Germany while gaining footholds everywhere you can (Granada/papal states/ottomans are some of my first targets at game start). Never let anyone get a foothold on colonizing; always go to war with anyone forming colonies and seize them(try to wait until it's almost complete) while slowly doing some of your own colonizing.

 

[n0thin]

England might be the best choice for a WC, but Burgundy is another extremely strong option. The other top choices are Castille and France itself, while some others are also viable (I'm doing a Bohemia WC right now, for example).
England and Burgundy however are probably the strongest ones and it just comes down to preferences in the end.
Regarding your points about England however:
a) Thats not exactly right. At first, you can just restart the game, if you get Recover Normandy first. And it doesn't really matter if you do Ireland or Scotland first. Recover Normandy is entirely useless and since you already have cores on Normandy and a few other French provinces, you don't even need the mission for a CB. By the way, in all EU3 games I played, I never saw France and Burgundy ally in early game...
b) The Mtth for the Cultural Assimilation event is 250 years. It can only pop up in Wales, Cornwall, Southern Scotland or Ile-de-France, since no other provinces have a border with English provinces (Ile-de-France has a CoT, which works, too). It's pretty unlikely that this will prevent you from culture switching. And if it does come up, you can always just release something.
c) You join the HRE after you get elected. Then you can just add provinces at your will.
d) Would be true if you would play against a human player. But there won't be more than one or two vassalized electors and it's incredible easy to get elected HRE in SP with almost any Christian nation.

 

[Alpinia]

Remember also that the key to a quick WC as a Christian nations is to keep infamy as low as possible to get those sweet cardinals, without wasting any infamy reduction by reaching 0.0 infamy.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Best for early WC is bohemia, due the fact you can abuse HRE mechanics and religious wars, to form hre in few years, and then just go on rampage.

 

[BrunoDerKaiser]

Nice choice Ivanow, Bohemia is really an oppportunistic nation that has a lot of ways to blob.

 

[dresdor]

paradox disabled achievements? when did this happen?

 

[heliostellar]

paradox disabled achievements? when did this happen?

Yeah, kinda stinks. I was having fun with them: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...don-t-work&p=14189802&viewfull=1#post14189802

 

[heliostellar]

Best for early WC is bohemia, due the fact you can abuse HRE mechanics and religious wars, to form hre in few years, and then just go on rampage.

I suppose, but the French decision that you can take to get Absolute Monarchy earlier and without stab cost is pretty damn cool.

 

[n0thin]

I suppose, but the French decision that you can take to get Absolute Monarchy earlier and without stab cost is pretty damn cool.

Well, to be fair, it's not really needed. You will want to make the best use out of Holy war, meaning you'll want to pump as much infamy in crusade before 1650 as you have available. Till 1650 however, you should have reached government tech 27, so you can just simply change to Absolute Monarchy. Every second point of infamy invested in Imperialism is more or less wasted, since you can get 2 provinces with Holy war instead. And it's only one stab to change to Absolute Monarchy, which takes 1-2 months if you go full narrowminded (which you should always for WCs) and serfdom (which you can).

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Well, n0thin, don't forget, that it does give you additional magistrates.

 

[Atlanteax]

If you go for a World Conquest ... that does *not* allow for forced PUs (as a house-rule) ... would Burgundy still be favored over England ... for the OP?

I realize that forced PUs are essentially a necessity, but this is more along the lines of managed infamy & absent forced PUs, for "how close to WC possible" purposes.

Oh, and I suppose that the man-power changes introduced in 5.2 will also make it significantly more challenging to wage multiple war-fronts.