Thoughts on the New Greek Focus Tree (Originally posted by me on reddit)

[GeneralBrock95]

So I've been trying out the new Greek focus tree, and over all, I think its pretty good. There are a few bugged events (Bulgarian clay thieves) that make it frustrating at the moment, but those will be patched out in a few days. Industry is well balanced, and the military as well, although the naval tree seems a bit bugged with the "Scrap the Greco-Turkish Naval Treaty" focus not seeming to do anything since you can gain access to refitting the heavy ships through the docking rights and "Schachplan" focuses (I may just be not doing things in the correct order). The political trees are where I point my criticism. Most of my criticism revolves around the restore Byzantium tree. For me it doesn't make any sense that you can't restore the empire as the monarchists. A simple fix in my opinion would be to flip the communist tree to the left hand side so the Byzantine tree and the monarchist trees align. A few things would have to be re-arranged to make them fit, but overall they mesh well.

My suggestions are thus:

The election event would give you three choices, the Republicans, the Unaligned, and the Fascists (Metaxists). Arresting the king will follow the current pathing of bringing home the Republicans and compromising with the Monarchists and starting the Megali chain. The Monarchist tree is where the biggest changes would happen. George would be given two choices; compromise with the republicans or crush them as already presented in the tree. The compromise path would allow the player thru focuses, events, and decisions to align the republicans and communists, allowing you to appoint the republican leader as prime minister, gaining a spirit with his buffs. Then you would be able to proceed down to the restoration focuses.

After following the Megali line down to the "Resurrecting the Megaili Idea", this is were the split would happen. On one side would be the option to join the allies via the "Tradition Allies" focus, allowing for the regaining of Cyprus. You would then and use your newfound friends to press the Megali claims in exchange for your help in the war. This would be the 'democratic' line, utilizing the "Gordian Knot" focus, and would end with the decision to form Greater Greece (Hellas).

On the other side would be focuses and decisions to restore the empire as the unaligned. If the central powers are back, you could join them with the "Realign" focus, or go it alone (there would be a slim chance you could still join the allies). This line would then progress down to the "Horror and Fear" focus and proceed as is already presented in game. The ending would of course be "Byzantine Themata" and George would end up with a portrait of him dressed in the regalia of the Byzantine Emperors with some added buffs.

One of the big choices in both paths would be what to do with the Fascists. If you utilize the EEE, pacifying them and bringing them into the government, the chances of joining the allies would drop, but Germany approving of you and your economic deals would increase, even increasing the chance that a scripted decision to ask for a non-aggression pact would succeed. However, if you crush them, the chances of Germany and Italy declaring war on you are high.

The Fascists (Metaxists) branch would intermingle with the Unaligned path, allowing you to complete its spirits, align Germany using " Recruit the Fascists (or not, choosing instead to pick "Use the Military") and restore the empire that way. This would be accomplished by utilizing the "Horror and Fear" focus and its path.

I'm very interested to hear your thoughts and opinions on what I have presented here. I plan on making a similar post on both Turkey and Bulgaria when I give them a try.

 

[Iskulya]

Not sure why you would bother making such a post on reddit. Anything that isn't a blurry phone picture of a computer screen of something that's already been posted a few dozen times already will just sink to the bottom with little, if any, discussion. The HoI 4 subreddit mostly seems to be a place where lazy people can easily karma farm by using the console to annex the world and editing the screenshot to cut off the date(January 1, 1936) and get thousands of karma.

I think the Greek tree is more or less fine the way it is, but some things could be expanded. I think you are fixating a bit much on the Byzantine Empire bit. It's a silly meme thing, and as such it shouldn't get a huge deal of attention. It's basically a bonus, and it's already fairly well implemented as it is, I think. The course of events in working with the EEE and then failing to get any allies to help you, and then somehow beating Turkey is enough as it is.

I would have liked to have seen the monarchists path fleshed out a bit more, as the only focuses it has that Metaxist greece doesn't have is to Petition the British for Aid(Which never works anyway) and joining the Central Powers(which will never be applicable without custom game rules).

I think the Democratic path could have been fleshed out with a little more content after the Megali stuff. Something for joining the allies, or perhaps the French Entente or the Central European Alliance would have been nice. Similarly, the Fascist branch more or less is kinda borked if the Axis doesn't exist. It gives you no alternative, unlike Turkey's tree which in comparison lets you do things like the Mediterranean Entente and Anti-Bolshevik Bloc.

The Communist focuses also felt a little weak. For the independent side, you can only really get a faction with Yugoslavia. Not very impressive... and on the Stalinist side, it has you going for a border conflict which is more or less going to be impossible to achieve under normal conditions unless you delay it for years and build up some extremely beefy templates. The Border Conflict with Edirne has your troops attacking across a river into forts. There was no way that was going to be winnable for most people as a little country like Greece whose small economy gives you little leeway in fancier templates that could have a chance in winning there. If you fail that border conflict, you have another, even harder one, which has your troops attacking across the Aegean islands(river crossing penalty) into hills and mountains. That was always going to be impossible under normal conditions for a weak country like Greece. Then the Soviets get a border conflict if that fails in Trebizond, which is also doomed to failure because they must similarly attack into mountains heavily fortified with forts. A player Soviet Union could handle that with ease, but not the AI Soviets.

One of the things that I like about Greece and Turkey's trees is that the communist paths are implemented in a way that is not silly. With Greece, you have the Venezalists coming to power, and they have to make a coalition with conservatives to keep the state intact, or make a coalition with the communists paving the way for the latter to overthrow them later.

With the Turks, you don't become communist per se, but the Kemalists pivot to something like a more benign, less racist form of Strasserism(which for the purposes of the game's mechanics has your ideology switched to "communist"). Eventually, much, much later in the tree the ban on the communist party can be lifted and they can come to power. In that situation, communists coming to power doesn't seem so absurd. I really like the extra work that was put in on making things more plausible and less absurd. Even the way the Ottoman restoration is handled with conservatives winning elections and reversing secularism paving the way for a civil war manages to portray it in a way that, if it is not plausible, it at least is not absurd. No mean feat, in my opinion.