Thoughts on the new Aptitude & Statecraft tradition trees?

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SilentReflection

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So what do people think about them? How would you use them in a game? Would you use them in a game?

Personally I think they're a little underwhelming and that other tradition trees would give me more benefits, but that's just my view. What do you think?
 

Briloner

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having played various combinations for dozens of hours, I can definitly declare ...

just kidding - but everything before next eveing is conjeturer, because we all lack experience. ;)
 
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CaptPriceZombir

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Aptitude feels really good. Significantly boosts the leaders and helps gain their lvls faster.

Statecraft. . . That I'm not sure about. Seen the Agendas they unlock which seem nice. Haven't tried them out yet. Will be doing on my next play
 

RoverStorm

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Both are pretty decent. They are no where near "effectively mandatory" the way that an Ascension tree or Supremecy is, but they also aren't Subterfuge which is a big deal. In general, I might rank them slightly lower than some of the other trees, and it's hard to justify them with the increasing competition for tradition tree slots, but they don't strike me as useless and I would say you might take them when you are trying to "max out" certain bonuses.

Aptitude strikes me as slightly better than Statescraft. -2% empire size per governor is easily a -10% empire size for a standard lineup of leaders, and +1 leader starting trait is exactly as good as it sounds, though it doesn't apply retroactively sadely. Most of the other bonuses I have yet to determine how strong/weak they are.

Statescraft has a lot of bonuses that....aren't super impressive, but it also has some good ones. Flat Edict Fund is the worst modifier in the game bar none, and the ones that affect agendas do way too little to be noticable. Councilor XP is just weaker Leader XP, and 300 XP every 10 years when most levels require thousands of XP is awful. However, "Effective Councillor Skill" is a really good modifier. It is basically an instant level up that applies only to the councilor bonuses, AND can go over the level limit of ten! Some councilor skill effects can get pretty strong the more levels you have. Second, the agendas it unlocks are also really good. Rightful Claims is a whopping -20% claim cost alongside a casual 50% bonus influence from rivals and a 5% damage buff against rivals. Oppose the Fallen is a 25% damage buff against Fallen/Awakened Empires and Marauders/Great Khan, an excellent option to have for the right situation in addition to the more universally useful Rightful Claims agenda.
 
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RoverStorm

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ever since Subterfuge added the tracking and evasion bonuses
That's true, I occasionally forget they made that change. I still think it is the worst of the tradition trees, but it is at least slightly niche. Cloaking may or may not be good as well, I've only had a few runs where I hard-focus cloaking and it's kind of hard to tell if the cloaking bonus is strong or useless.
 
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SilentReflection

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That's true, I occasionally forget they made that change. I still think it is the worst of the tradition trees, but it is at least slightly niche. Cloaking may or may not be good as well, I've only had a few runs where I hard-focus cloaking and it's kind of hard to tell if the cloaking bonus is strong or useless.
I find cloaking is a bit of both. It’s really good before starting wars for scouting enemy systems and positioning a fleet next to an important starbase (namely shipyards) to instantly take it when the war starts. Otherwise, unless you plan on making a dedicated cloaking build, it’s more trouble than it’s worth when the war is in full swing.
 

HP Delron

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I don't like that Aptitude has a dead node. Now the leader lifespan is worthless the +10 year trait just a total flush. It's a really weird pick to put in the same update that makes the bonus irrelevant (Different folks on the dev team not talking to each other?).

At minimum they really need to replace that one with something that actually has functional text.
 

currylambchop

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I don't like that Aptitude has a dead node. Now the leader lifespan is worthless the +10 year trait just a total flush. It's a really weird pick to put in the same update that makes the bonus irrelevant (Different folks on the dev team not talking to each other?).

At minimum they really need to replace that one with something that actually has functional text.
How is leader lifespan worthless?

on topic, statecraft is pretty mediocre. Aside from giving you a free OP tech at the beginning of the game, it doesn’t really have much use.
 
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HP Delron

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How is leader lifespan worthless?

on topic, statecraft is pretty mediocre. Aside from giving you a free OP tech at the beginning of the game, it doesn’t really have much use.

Leaders retire at random, as young as their 40s. +80 years in lifespan isn't worthy anything if they retire with them packing their bags well before the baseline lifespan.
 

Dragatus

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Completing Statecraft gives you Galactic Administration technology for free (according to the wiki; I haven't yet had a chance to try out the new DLC for myself). That's the tech that gives you your 3rd civic point. @DeanTheDull (whose post I actually find not to be dull at all, but rather quite interesting) made an entire thread in which he (?) mused about the possibilities that opens up. In short, you can start the game with one set of civics that give you an economic bonus, take Statecraft as one of you early traditions, and swap civics/government into something war-focused just when you start going on the warpath. The presumption here is that you wanted to be warlike to begin with.

Even without the presumption, I sometimes find myself wanting to use certain combos of three civics and it bothers me not to have the third one from the start. A major example of that is Anglers + Agrarian Idyll + Catalytic Processing. Statecraft will let me get the full combo much faster than normal.
 

ZomgK3tchup

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Leaders retire at random, as young as their 40s. +80 years in lifespan isn't worthy anything if they retire with them packing their bags well before the baseline lifespan.
They said if this is happening, then it's a bug.

Retirement is just flavor text that can show when a leader dies.
 

A2ch0n

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Supremecy is
where in the world is Supremacy mandatory? it's strong yes, but i can guarantee you that you can play GA difficulty and at least 10xcrisis without it (never played 25 yet). It absolutely depends on the way you play the game. And gameplaywise it only gives you advantages if your primary goal is warfare. Maybe you're talking about pvp?

spy stuff isn't very good
The espionage related traits in the subterfuge tree are perfectly fine and quite powerfull. The problem is, espionage isn't until a operations rework...

---
On topic,

I really like the Aptitude tree, especially if you like todo leader focused builds. I've at least added it to my usual tradition group given that i've even befor 3.8 tried to optimize my Leaders if possible.

Statecraft is a different thing. I like the effective councilor skill and the xp increases. But the agenda enhancements are not that good imo. Especially the two new agendas unlocked by inspiring agendas are a worthless pick for me. They have only conflict potential and no empire benefits.

So my personal ranking speaking in tier list:

Aptitude: A or even A+
Statecraft: B with a tendency to B-
 

Ryika

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where in the world is Supremacy mandatory? it's strong yes, but i can guarantee you that you can play GA difficulty and at least 10xcrisis without it (never played 25 yet). It absolutely depends on the way you play the game. And gameplaywise it only gives you advantages if your primary goal is warfare. Maybe you're talking about pvp?
The bonuses it gives are good for pretty much every strategy. Ship build cost, ship upkeep, a naval capacity modifier, Fire Rate, and War Doctrines all help you regardless of what strategy you're on, unless you for some reason never build a fleet. I wouldn't say it's mandatory, but it's generically useful and strong enough that I essentially pick it up every game, albeit not always with priority.
 
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A2ch0n

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essentially pick it up every game
for met it's a contender for the last tradition slot or in emergency situations with no other options. The only ones i would rate mandatory (and only for myself) are Exploration, Diplomacy and the ascension tradition (90% psionics). The secondary priority group are politics, subterfuge and now Aptitude. The one left is actually flexible. Prosperity, Supremacy and Harmony. But those are situational.

So i don't say Supremacy is bad, by far not, that would be a lie. But i don't need it for the way i play the game.
 

DeanTheDull

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The bonuses it gives are good for pretty much every strategy. Ship build cost, ship upkeep, a naval capacity modifier, Fire Rate, and War Doctrines all help you regardless of what strategy you're on, unless you for some reason never build a fleet. I wouldn't say it's mandatory, but it's generically useful and strong enough that I essentially pick it up every game, albeit not always with priority.

Honestly, I feel like the War Doctrines are most of the heavy lifting for Supremacy, and that's mostly because of their exclusivity and power in the cost-efficiency of a navy you do deploy. If other Traditions had access to one or some of them, and/or you could get access to them (later) by society techs, the pressure would be considerably lower.

That's not saying other bonuses aren't good- ship cost reduction scales basically infinitely in econ value, and Supremacist is a better Belligerant with a naval capacity boost on other naval boost- but a good econ tradition or diplomatic tradition can easily outweigh the rest.