Thoughts about Crown Authority

[tvremote84]

It seems to me that every time I play a game of CKII the same issues crop up, namely the a-historical centralized power of the HRE, France, etc. This balance of power, between dukes and kings, was supposed to be represented in the concept of crown authority. However this system is completely broken, and as such creates imbalance by making historically large uncentralized kingdoms unstoppable behemoths.

So, some suggestions.
Make raising crown authority much harder
I never understood why this was such a simple action. Wait a few years and click a button. Suddenly all your vassals accept your new authority. Every once in a while you'll have a rebellion, which while the faction system made a bit more of a challenge, still isn't really tough to handle if you plan ahead.
Instead, vassals should not vote to approve higher crown authority unless they have relations higher than high, like 80+. This makes it extremely unlikely that large empires or kingdoms improve their crown authority unless they are ruled by a very very popular and powerful ruler. (Seems sensible historically).
Of course, this would have the effect that small kingdoms would have a much easier time centralizing. Also sensible.

Rework the levy system for decentralized powers
Kings and emperors operating under minimal or low crown authority should be required to call their vassals into offensive wars, in the same way allies are called into war. Vassals should be able to refuse based on relationship with the leige. Also, levies available from vassals at lower crown authority levels should be greatly reduced.

Crown authority as it stands is ignorable. It should be a challenge for players to reign in their unruly vassals and centralized their kingdoms. Vassals should chafe under incompetent kings ruling with an iron fist. Hopefully this doesn't fall on deaf ears, but this really seems like a easy fix that would greatly improve gameplay. What do you guys think?

 

[Lord Finnish]

My thoughts on CA raising:
- As with succession laws, the enacting ruler should have to be in power for 10 years before having the chance to change crown law.
- You would need at least 90 relations with a vassal for him to vote for you.
- If a vassal votes for the law, he should not take part in CA factions in his lifetime and he would not gain the opinion penalty "raised crown authority". Because you and your other vassal friends just voted to enact the law, idiot, you have no right to be angry about it.

Also related to my last point, a law should not be automatically enacted when 50% votes in favor. Laws should be triggered using an "Enact Law" button which you can press when the 50% threshold is passed but you should be able to wait for more votes in case you are able to gather, say, 90% of the vassal votes and thus prevent a whole lot of opinion penalties.

 

[Hackworthy]

I think there's enough constant plotting, bitching and factioning to drag crown authority down to minimum that this problem solves itself. The alternative is that these kingdoms instead be too weak to defend themselves and collapse, picked apart by neighbors.

 

[tvremote84]

I think there's enough constant plotting, bitching and factioning to drag crown authority down to minimum that this problem solves itself. The alternative is that these kingdoms instead be too weak to defend themselves and collapse, picked apart by neighbors.

Really? It seems to me that once a kingdom get absolute CA it never loses it. Also the difference between minimal and absolute is pretty minor currently. Look at the way the HRE is modeled in EUIII compared to CKII. The EUIII version is, while obviously not perfect, a much better representation of the HRE than the CKII version. This seems problematic to me in a game designed to model feudal relationships.

 

[psyghamn]

I really like the idea about being able to refuse to levy your armies. While the Holy Roman Emperor was technically able to levy troops from any member of the HRE, in practice this was so impractical and upset vassals so much that the Emperor only relied on troops from their realm. Vassals should be much more likely to levy the forces in defensive wars though. This would more accurately simulate the HRE. It was never a major agressor, nor did it expand it borders (except against baltic pagans), but it did maintain itself against outside threats quite well.

 

[Voy]

- AI: Less likely to go overboard with Crown Authority

Whatever this little "fix", from 1.08, is suppose to do it doesn't work quite well. I think it's ridiculous how fast they reach the highest crown authority.

Perhaps it would be better if it was slightly dependent on tech as well? It should at least require 10 years as ruler.

 

[tajerio]

Rework the levy system for decentralized powers
Kings and emperors operating under minimal or low crown authority should be required to call their vassals into offensive wars, in the same way allies are called into war. Vassals should be able to refuse based on relationship with the liege. Also, levies available from vassals at lower crown authority levels should be greatly reduced.

I think this is an excellent solution for blobbing.

I'd like inheritance laws to be less closely tied to crown authority, as that seems to me to be one of the main factors giving the AI the impetus to raise authority.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Raising crown authority should require a minimal relation between the liege and his vassals (say, +25) and ideally the 'Ambitious' trait. The current system is terrible -- especially for the HRE, which is usually at Absolute CA by 1150.

 

[Hootieleece]

Keeping it sorta like it is now:

-at least 10 years on throne.
-make player spend prestige to enact CA.(500 for limited,1000 for medium,1500, for High,2000 for absolute)this would be a double malus for player/AI doing the raising.since 2000 prestige maxs out the opinion bonus.Thus player would lose +20 opinion bonus and get raised CA Malus -30.Thus making it less of a NO BRAINER Decision.Especially on higher levels.(and very hard too keep there)

Make Absolute CA worth the price......maybe add one Free revoke or Free executions.

Like another poster said reduce Vassal levies at the lower levels.
Autonomous Vassals=No Levies (You are "first" among equals)
Limited=30% of vassal levy
Medium=50% of vassal levy
High=75% of levies
absolute=100% of levies.

Vassal opinion effects the actual numbers.Those numbers are max available to Ruler and only available at +100 relations.
Any vassal with neagative opinion automatically refuses levy call up, but Ruler gets justified imprisonment against vassal.

 

[NezzeOne]

Whatever this little "fix", from 1.08, is suppose to do it doesn't work quite well. I think it's ridiculous how fast they reach the highest crown authority.

Perhaps it would be better if it was slightly dependent on tech as well? It should at least require 10 years as ruler.

CK2+ does a good job on limiting crown authority. Kingdoms and Empires that aren't the HRE need a certain amount of prestige to raise crown authority, depending on what level of authority you're attempting to enact. I think high is like 2500 prestige. The HRE also has its own set of rules to abide by if it wants to raise CA, and I think that's a feature that'd serve well in the base game.

 

[Veetor]

Because you and your other vassal friends just voted to enact the law, idiot, you have no right to be angry about it.

HAaha loved this.

All of those are great ideas, it is really disapoiting how Crown Authority works right now

 

[Jia Xu]

I think the real problem is that the only thing that limits raising crown authority is the ruler. Your character raises crown authority. He dies next year and his heir can raise it again. There should be a cool down independent from characters. You should have to be at high authority for a hundred years before you can move to absolute, or something like that.

Alternatively, perhaps authority should have different requirements to change depending on the succession type. Maybe things would be better if there were more requirements for elective monarchies to change any laws, for example.

 

[unmerged(275616)]

I just had a crazy idea. What if attempting to increase CA actually triggered a normal election? For example, let's say that I am a king and I want to raise crown authority to high. When I click on the button to raise crown authority, an election will be scheduled one year after the current date. During the election period, events would occur that would allow me to influence the election. For the measure to pass, x% of the vassals must vote yay on election day. Each ruler would only get one attempt to raise his crown authority.

 

[tvremote84]

I think the real problem is that the only thing that limits raising crown authority is the ruler. Your character raises crown authority. He dies next year and his heir can raise it again. There should be a cool down independent from characters. You should have to be at high authority for a hundred years before you can move to absolute, or something like that.

I don't think a cool down for raising CA should be the be-all end-end all fix. Its very artificial and unfun. CA should be tied to your king and the relationship he has with vassals. It should be dynamic and fluid. There should be a reward for getting friends in high places (or at least people who don't hate you).
The more they add to CKII the further they get away from what seems to me the core of the game. That its, the dynamic between liege and vassal. We need a Western Europe DLC before anything, thats an area of the game that can sure use some love.

 

[Sforzesco]

My thoughts on CA raising:
- As with succession laws, the enacting ruler should have to be in power for 10 years before having the chance to change crown law.
- You would need at least 90 relations with a vassal for him to vote for you.
- If a vassal votes for the law, he should not take part in CA factions in his lifetime and he would not gain the opinion penalty "raised crown authority". Because you and your other vassal friends just voted to enact the law, idiot, you have no right to be angry about it.

Relations value should matter but what about making AI think about pros and cons about crown authority (try to achieve CA which is best for them):
* small vassal would like to have at least medium CA for protection against bigger co-vassals (so that those could not fight with the weak vassal and conquest his counties)
* big vassal would of course want vice versa.
* in some cases, duke vassal would like the "revoke title" function enabled.
* wanting given CA to be able to change to primogeniture etc..
and so on, having AI vote/join faction depending on its current situation, instead of just based on level of relations score.

I agree that raising CA should be much harder than it is now. It should make sense for the voters (or be very lucrative...)

 

[unmerged(362834)]

It seems to me that every time I play a game of CKII the same issues crop up, namely the a-historical centralized power of the HRE, France, etc. This balance of power, between dukes and kings, was supposed to be represented in the concept of crown authority. However this system is completely broken, and as such creates imbalance by making historically large uncentralized kingdoms unstoppable behemoths.

So, some suggestions.
Make raising crown authority much harder
I never understood why this was such a simple action. Wait a few years and click a button. Suddenly all your vassals accept your new authority. Every once in a while you'll have a rebellion, which while the faction system made a bit more of a challenge, still isn't really tough to handle if you plan ahead.
Instead, vassals should not vote to approve higher crown authority unless they have relations higher than high, like 80+. This makes it extremely unlikely that large empires or kingdoms improve their crown authority unless they are ruled by a very very popular and powerful ruler. (Seems sensible historically).
Of course, this would have the effect that small kingdoms would have a much easier time centralizing. Also sensible.

Rework the levy system for decentralized powers
Kings and emperors operating under minimal or low crown authority should be required to call their vassals into offensive wars, in the same way allies are called into war. Vassals should be able to refuse based on relationship with the leige. Also, levies available from vassals at lower crown authority levels should be greatly reduced.

Crown authority as it stands is ignorable. It should be a challenge for players to reign in their unruly vassals and centralized their kingdoms. Vassals should chafe under incompetent kings ruling with an iron fist. Hopefully this doesn't fall on deaf ears, but this really seems like a easy fix that would greatly improve gameplay. What do you guys think?

My thoughts on CA raising:
- As with succession laws, the enacting ruler should have to be in power for 10 years before having the chance to change crown law.
- You would need at least 90 relations with a vassal for him to vote for you.
- If a vassal votes for the law, he should not take part in CA factions in his lifetime and he would not gain the opinion penalty "raised crown authority". Because you and your other vassal friends just voted to enact the law, idiot, you have no right to be angry about it.

Also related to my last point, a law should not be automatically enacted when 50% votes in favor. Laws should be triggered using an "Enact Law" button which you can press when the 50% threshold is passed but you should be able to wait for more votes in case you are able to gather, say, 90% of the vassal votes and thus prevent a whole lot of opinion penalties.

I'd love to see these suggestions implemented and I won't mind paying for it!!!