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Why is it that when Germany and Italy are allied, and Italy is at war with Ethiopea, German trade with Brazil drops to something like 18% efficiency? I thought the trade efficiency at war was related to enemy ships in the sea zones. That was just a lie. I notice it all the time. Italy can be at war with Ethiopea or Albania, some nothing country, and German trade goes to crap. That's just cheap programming.

Get rid of at least half the ports and beaches in the game. It looks like every pleasure boat marina in the world became a port -- except Dunkirk, one of the biggest ports in France, and the PORT through which the British were allowed to evacuate the BEF, is not a port! All those beaches and ports make it impossible to defend. Not every beach can support an amphib invasion, which is what "beach" is supposed to represent. And if they want so many beaches, then a beach should have a capacity -- a maximum number of divisions that can land there, and a maximum number of divisions it can supply once ashore. At least that would be more realistic and would make defense somewhat possible. As it is now, the USA can bring a 75-transport fleet full of troops to any beach in Europe and establish an instant beachhead. It is even worse than it was in HOI 1 because there are three times as many beaches.

And TC should be tied to the average infrastructure level. Perhaps change the calculation to something like (IC * 2.25) * AvgInfra. As it is, TC is another good idea poorly thought through.

Movement rate penalties should not be such that mountain troops with engineer brigades are the fastest units in most of USSR most of the time. Even in bad terrain conditions, armor is almost always faster than infantry.

Mech should be treated as infantry, not armor. The halftracks were not fighting platforms, they were transport. They were simply transport with more cross-country ability than trucks, and safer than trucks, so the troops could be transported closer to the fighting before they dismounted. But mech and mot infantry are INFANTRY: they dismount to fight.
 
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Grosshaus

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HerrGeneral said:
Why is it that when Germany and Italy are allied, and Italy is at war with Ethiopea, German trade with Brazil drops to something like 18% efficiency? I thought the trade efficiency at war was related to enemy ships in the sea zones. That was just a lie. I notice it all the time. Italy can be at war with Ethiopea or Albania, some nothing country, and German trade goes to crap. That's just cheap programming.

Agreed fully, although migth require quite a big change in the code.

Get rid of at least half the ports and beaches in the game. It looks like every pleasure boat marina in the world became a port -- except Dunkirk, one of the biggest ports in France, and the PORT through which the British were allowed to evacuate the BEF, is not a port! All those beaches and ports make it impossible to defend. Not every beach can support an amphib invasion, which is what "beach" is supposed to represent. And if they want so many beaches, then a beach should have a capacity -- a maximum number of divisions that can land there, and a maximum number of divisions it can supply once ashore. At least that would be more realistic and would make defense somewhat possible. As it is now, the USA can bring a 75-transport fleet full of troops to any beach in Europe and establish an instant beachhead. It is even worse than it was in HOI 1 because there are three times as many beaches.

Agreed, although it would be a huge project to do that. If such a change would be approved by developers then it would need forum input to determine the details from around the World.

And TC should be tied to the average infrastructure level. Perhaps change the calculation to something like (IC * 2.25) * AvgInfra. As it is, TC is another good idea poorly thought through.

Nope. It would kill UK and France with colonies.

Movement rate penalties should not be such that mountain troops with engineer brigades are the fastest units in most of USSR most of the time. Even in bad terrain conditions, armor is almost always faster than infantry.

Armor was not faster in the worst of terrains. Actually armor couldn't even penetrate some mountains or swamps and was basically immobile in the arctic.

Mech should be treated as infantry, not armor. The halftracks were not fighting platforms, they were transport. They were simply transport with more cross-country ability than trucks, and safer than trucks, so the troops could be transported closer to the fighting before they dismounted. But mech and mot infantry are INFANTRY: they dismount to fight.

I'm not quite sure what to think of this. After all although they did the actual fighting by foot the existance of transports had an effect, they could give fire support and gave shelter in case of air raids or artillery fire.
 

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Grosshaus said:
I'm not quite sure what to think of this. After all although they did the actual fighting by foot the existance of transports had an effect, they could give fire support and gave shelter in case of air raids or artillery fire.
The only reason that any "armor" or "infantry" classification matters is for the combined arms bonus - right? When fighting they use the same values regardless of their classification, and it only matters for that one bonus.

Assuming that is the case (and I think it is) then the original poster is absolutely right: mechanized infantry should be considered infantry for this purpose!
 

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HerrGeneral said:
Why is it that when Germany and Italy are allied, and Italy is at war with Ethiopea, German trade with Brazil drops to something like 18% efficiency? I thought the trade efficiency at war was related to enemy ships in the sea zones. That was just a lie. I notice it all the time. Italy can be at war with Ethiopea or Albania, some nothing country, and German trade goes to crap. That's just cheap programming.
This is justifiable historically. When Italy was at war with Ethiopia it was subject to a League of Nations economic embargo. If Germany formally allied itself with Italy at this time then it might expect to be included as it would otherwise provide a backdoor for Italy. Note that, in this case, Germany gets other economic benefits from being at war - a reduced CG requirement. If it doesn't like the overall economic effects of being at war then it shouldn't be so ready to ally with Italy early. The game provides a Pact of Steel event to form the Axis at the historical time, right?

Andrew
 

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HerrGeneral said:
Mech should be treated as infantry, not armor. The halftracks were not fighting platforms, they were transport. They were simply transport with more cross-country ability than trucks, and safer than trucks, so the troops could be transported closer to the fighting before they dismounted. But mech and mot infantry are INFANTRY: they dismount to fight.
Mechanised divisions have a softness value of 60%. This fairly represents their composition which would usually include a battalion or more of tanks, armoured cars and other AFVs. They are still considered mostly soft rather than hard. Similarly, motorised troops are 80% soft while armoured divisions are only 30% soft.

Andrew
 

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Jul 15, 2004
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Colonel Warden said:
This is justifiable historically. When Italy was at war with Ethiopia it was subject to a League of Nations economic embargo. If Germany formally allied itself with Italy at this time then it might expect to be included as it would otherwise provide a backdoor for Italy. Note that, in this case, Germany gets other economic benefits from being at war - a reduced CG requirement. If it doesn't like the overall economic effects of being at war then it shouldn't be so ready to ally with Italy early. The game provides a Pact of Steel event to form the Axis at the historical time, right?

Andrew

The problems with your attempt to justify sloppy coding are numerous, but I will simply point out one or maybe two. Because the game only allows tech trade for formal allies, it virtually forces Italy to join Axis in 36 in an MP game. If not for that design decision, I would agree with you, and in HOI 1, Italy rarely joined Axis early.

Second, Germany gets no economic benefit from being at war -- or at best, very small -- in HOi 2, because it has to generate the $$ to pay its researchers, which requires very close to the same CG IC as its civilian needs require. Whenever I go to war, I am unable to adjust my CG slider more than a couple of IC. It is the Allies who benefit from being at war, not the Axis.
 

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HerrGeneral said:
...Because the game only allows tech trade for formal allies, it virtually forces Italy to join Axis in 36 in an MP game. ...
Second, Germany gets no economic benefit from being at war -- or at best, very small -- in HOi 2, because it has to generate the $$ to pay its researchers...
Italy is not forced to join the Axis. IMO, it is more sensible for it to sit on the fence, pursuing an independent foreign policy, as it did historically. Because Italy is so weak then it should try to join the winning side, once it thinks has identified it. This was Mussolini's policy. He only joined the war with Germany when he thought it was almost over, so that he could get a share of the spoils. He hadn't reckoned on Churchill's indomitable refusal to accept that the UK was beaten. And even then, I don't think they ever used much in the way of German technology - they continued with their own FIAT/Ansaldo products.

Your thinking derives from a stereotyped style of MP play in which Italy is given little freedom of this kind, by means of restrictive house rules. That is not the game as designed and sold.

I agree with your point about money though - the linkage between this and consumer goods has some odd effects. I don't like the way that it tends to hamper German diplomacy, making it expensive to recruit allies in the Balkans like Romania. I think the DI system of HoI 1 was better.

Andrew
 

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HerrGeneral said:
And TC should be tied to the average infrastructure level. Perhaps change the calculation to something like (IC * 2.25) * AvgInfra. As it is, TC is another good idea poorly thought through.

Grosshaus said:
Nope. It would kill UK and France with colonies.

What about changing the fuel and supply transportation cost according to the infra of province where it is consumed (i.e. where are the divs located). Something like

TC Load = (Supply+Fuel)*(200 - Infrastructure%)/100

That would cause normal load in high-infra provinces but almost doubled it in those 20%.

I would also provided a bonus (0.2 - 0.5 TC) per 10 convoy transports in pool capped by the number of coastal provinces.