This stupid NexusMods debate is useless...

[Dragon_King_1]

I'm just going to be brutally honest here.

It's common knowledge that once you make a mod public, control of that copy of the mod is handed over to whatever library you chose to use.
Whether that's on the Steam Workshop or any of the various mod library websites out there, as soon as you publish a mod that copy is no longer yours.

Once that happens you effectively lose control over that copy as you've transferred it to whatever site you chose to use, whether that's the Steam Workshop, ModDB, NexusMods, or even github.

Once a mod goes public, the author no longer has any control over it. That's established fact. So the people who have withdrawn their mods from places like NexusMods, your dispute is not worth the time or the energy spent on it: It's not going to change anything, and you're only hurting yourself.

Think of any mod library website as like a public library. Once a book or CD or other item gets added to a library, that book is there forever. The author has no control over what that library does to that book. People can borrow that book and read it, but under no circumstances can the author dictate what the library does to that book.

Hell, the library can even modify their copy of the book if they want and the author can do nothing to stop them.

Same with mods. Once published, authors cede all control to the mod library or libraries they submitted to. You no longer have control over any aspect of that mod, from the creative aspect to the functional aspect or even the custodial aspect.

An author no longer has any rights to anything he or she has created once it gets published. You can modify the master copy and update what's on the database but you have no rights to the mod as published. And that's not going to change no matter what.

Even doing things the old fashioned way, by putting it on a CD and shipping it out, won't give the Nexus Exiles what they want because even then, there's not going to be any way to stop people from doing what they want with the mod once they get your CD.

So the only way for a mod author to have any sort of control over their mod is to withdraw it from public use and make it so that ONLY the author can use it. And the only thing that's going to hurt is the mod authors.

 

[Hobbes__]

I'm just going to be brutally honest here.

It's common knowledge that once you make a mod public, control of that copy of the mod is handed over to whatever library you chose to use.
Whether that's on the Steam Workshop or any of the various mod library websites out there, as soon as you publish a mod that copy is no longer yours.

Once that happens you effectively lose control over that copy as you've transferred it to whatever site you chose to use, whether that's the Steam Workshop, ModDB, NexusMods, or even github.

Once a mod goes public, the author no longer has any control over it. That's established fact. So the people who have withdrawn their mods from places like NexusMods, your dispute is not worth the time or the energy spent on it: It's not going to change anything, and you're only hurting yourself.

Think of any mod library website as like a public library. Once a book or CD or other item gets added to a library, that book is there forever. The author has no control over what that library does to that book. People can borrow that book and read it, but under no circumstances can the author dictate what the library does to that book.

Hell, the library can even modify their copy of the book if they want and the author can do nothing to stop them.

Same with mods. Once published, authors cede all control to the mod library or libraries they submitted to. You no longer have control over any aspect of that mod, from the creative aspect to the functional aspect or even the custodial aspect.

Your analogy is flawed because:
1) A public library isn't run for profit (Non-Commercial aspect)
2) A public library can't rewrite a book to add/remove chapters/characters/etc., to make the book fit better with other books (Derivative Works)
3) A public library cannot make as many copies of the book as they like and distribute them anywhere they like (Sharing)

So if the book is in a public library none of these issues are relevant to the author. But if a mod is at a site, all of them are relevant to the author.

Even doing things the old fashioned way, by putting it on a CD and shipping it out, won't give the Nexus Exiles what they want because even then, there's not going to be any way to stop people from doing what they want with the mod once they get your CD.

This is a non-issue.

The problem is not what people do with the mod in their personal computers: everyone is free to change and edit the mod as much as they want, privately, the same way that you can buy a book at the store, slice it into pieces back home, glue them together with chapters from other books, and even show your 'masterwork' with friends, pets, neighbors and family.

The problem is people modifying mods and publishing the changes without permission from the author when required; selling the mod or the changes when the author made it non-commercial in nature, or even obscuring the original author(s) by taking credit for the entire mod when you only changed one part.

So the only way for a mod author to have any sort of control over their mod is to withdraw it from public use and make it so that ONLY the author can use it. And the only thing that's going to hurt is the mod authors.

And you'll never see most work done by modders because they'll never publish it, for several reasons. With a major reason being that modders/authors don't want to see their work abused in the ways I've described before (which are far too common, unfortunately).

So, if you want to have modders to actually publish/update their work so that you can enjoy it for free, respect their rights as authors. Because saying that modders lose all control over their mods, not only is incorrect but it's a sure way to discourage authors from publishing their work in the first place.

And if modders don't want to use Nexusmods or whatever, it's their right and their decision as authors. Respect it if you like to keep seeing mods being published and updated.

 

[Dragon_King_1]

The problem is people modifying mods and publishing the changes without permission from the author when required; selling the mod or the changes when the author made it non-commercial in nature, or even obscuring the original author(s) by taking credit for the entire mod when you only changed one part.

This is not what Nexus is doing though. Mods are not being SOLD, or REPUBLISHED, or OBSCURED by Nexus.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the premium "subscription" that Nexus offers is not "selling" mods. In fact it's completely optional, it merely allows people to raise their download speeds. And it's something that many file hosting sites do, some of which are a lot more unscrupulous and shady than Nexus.

And Nexus will actually delete mods that people attempt to republish from another author or obscure by trying to take credit for it.

Just like you don't NEED to buy an airplane or even a first-class ticket in order to fly on it, you don't NEED to buy anything from Nexus in order to download mods.

In fact, to quote from NexusMods' own TOS: "Premium subscriptions are to modding as first class tickets are to air travel."

So again, I would like to know exactly WHY people are leaving Nexus. I'm not going to argue about this, I don't care if you return or not and I won't defend Nexus. I just want to know why the modders have left.

Because with all due respect to all of you modders, there's nothing I've found that could be cause for such vitriol, even on NexusMods itself.

 

[Hobbes__]

So again, I would like to know exactly WHY people are leaving Nexus. I'm not going to argue about this, I don't care if you return or not and I won't defend Nexus. I just want to know why the modders have left.

Because with all due respect to all of you modders, there's nothing I've found that could be cause for such vitriol, even on NexusMods itself.

They changed the Terms of Service last year, warned people about the changes and gave modders the opportunity to leave the site if they didn't agree with the new conditions.

Several modders left because they considered the new terms abusive for them as authors, others disagreed and stayed. End of story.

 

[Dragon_King_1]

They changed the Terms of Service last year, warned people about the changes and gave modders the opportunity to leave the site if they didn't agree with the new conditions.

Several modders left because they considered the new terms abusive for them as authors, others disagreed and stayed. End of story.

Thank you for that, and thank you for speaking with me.

I am still left wondering what, exactly, the changes were that pissed people off. But I understand you don't want to talk about it and will respect that.

I only ask that you direct me to someone who will talk about it. If that's impossible, or you just don't want to, it's fine.

 

[Timaeus]

Greetings.

This a subforum for the purpose asking for help in regards to how to mod this game (BATTLETECH), or announcing a mod for the game. It is not for the purpose of discussing the motivations behind why modders do or do not choose certain places to host their work. As such, this discussion should be taken elsewhere, and this thread is being locked.

Thank you
Timaeus