This patch and the handling of it have really damaged my faith in the company.

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Amyntas

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I have been and continue to be an avid supporter of Paradox. I've spent hundreds of dollars on games and dlcs, even though I find the development model the company has come to represent somewhat distasteful. The games are good enough that I am, broadly speaking, willing to overlook that. CK2 is still my favorite game of all time.

With that said, this is the first time I have felt genuinely ripped off by this company. I recently bought Megacorp after reading a bit about all the great changes -- yet, perhaps foolishly, I did not see the posts about how absolutely unplayable the game is right now until I had already invested three hours in a run-through. If I hadn't done that, I would genuinely have returned both DLCs. As it is, I am trapped with them right now.

I hope someone at Paradox reads this and hears us. You will LOSE us if you continue to conduct yourselves in this way. Views and metrics of community interest in Imperator: Rome are already way down, and I personally have come to believe that over and above some of the arbitrary design decisions made in the development of that game (which I have voiced separately in that forum), it is overwhelmingly likely that Imperator will be empty and unsatisfying. However, I am equally certain that the first two to four hours of gameplay will be a blast and feel very fresh -- enough that the army of sycophantic reviewers will give it a 9/10 across the board. We will then be stuck with a broken product that we will convince ourselves is worth waiting for, when it's really just bad business and disrespect for a very loyal fanbase. Paradox's QA apparently never plays past that length into their own damn games.

To those of you who will make apologetics for this behavior and immediately leap to Paradox's defense, please understand that this comes from a place of love. I adore the concept of these games and frankly I was initially very excited about the new economy changes that this update brought. The pops have been dramatically improved.

But the fact that I can't run this two year old game on an absolutely top of the line PC is an absolute slap in the face. I can run AC Odyssey at full settings with no lag or framerate drop. And I won't even go into the anemic, boring and weak AI in a patch developed in 2018. Even if I try to hold off on building fleets to make the game harder, I still roll over everyone. It's pathetic.

What's worse, I strongly suspect that Paradox knew about these problems with the update and put it out to increase Christmas sales. That level of cynicism bodes ill for their further projects, and I personally am done purchasing anything until Paradox meaningfully engages with the community about why they did this and what they plan to do to rectify it in the future.
 

grommile

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Literally nothing about the problems with this patch is new territory for Paradox.
 

Killeraoc

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The #TODOs in the code are really a slap in the face. You broke features, didn't bother updating them, and pushed it out the door anyway without even a hacky work around.

The performance analysis thread posted on this forum is just mind boggling to me. The game runs ~2.5x times slower than 2.1 with these new systems implemented as is. And because of the crisis's being broken/wonky path finding they can't even put a cap on the performance and save the galaxy from lag. Never mind mindless AI. And that's not even touching if the new systems themselves are fun/too micro heavy...I'm not even gonna touch that.
 

Jiav

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You're right. It is a slap in the face. Maybe things will be different now that Wiz is gone. I doubt it though.
Stellaris has been the black sheep since launch. 4X from a GSG company. Stellaris is definitely not their priority. That would be either CK2/EU4 or whatever the new secret project is. Stellaris probably isn't the big money-maker, though I haven't looked at sales in a while.
At the end of the day, they are a company. Yes, this is a tired excuse, but it somewhat justifies their development model. This all being said, Paradox basically OWNS the grand strategy market, and as such they do have a responsibility of good stewardship.

Stellaris is one of their big money makers its constantly in the most bought steamcharts and its playerbase on steam is literally double than CK 2 and equal to EU 4. Considering stellaris is relatively new compared to them there is still a lot of room to grow. However PDX really fucked it up with this patch.
 

BlackUmbrellas

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Is it really the end of the world to run a few sub-par sessions to get the hang of things and then wait for the inevitable post-holiday patches that make it work better?

I'm not sure how this is a "lose faith in the company" thing. There've been major bugs after every major update/DLC- you wait for them to be fixed and then continue as usual.
 

exi123

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I will be honest here: I am working in retail for myself and what paradox is doing is simply self damaging behaviour. Releasing a broken product without having enough support time before a big vacation period called christmas in sight is more or less stupid. They are give up their ratings on steam, their forum is a bug discussing mess and they are damaging the whole playerbase. This wasn't worth it. I for myself will not buy the next DLC as pre purchase. I won't play the next bigger patch after release. I am absolutely disappointed by this behaviour and by the product. I voted every single DLC and the basegame negative on steam right know. Paradox deserved it.

- An absolut annoyed customer! :(
 

Azhcristokos

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Sadly, I am inclined to agree. I have enjoyed Stellaris since launch and I believe overall that the game has seen lots of mechanical improvements, but despite liking the new gameplay, the horrific performance has caused me to shelve Stellaris. The performance drop is even worse than what happened when Rajas of India was released for CK2, but that was because they added an entire subcontinent to the game.

I can’t really say whether the patch is objectively more bug-ridden than previous releases; I’ve just personally been running into more bugs post-2.2 than with other patches. I hope they’ll come out with more fixes soon.
 

Cannes

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Stellaris has been the black sheep since launch. 4X from a GSG company. Stellaris is definitely not their priority. That would be either CK2/EU4 or whatever the new secret project is. Stellaris probably isn't the big money-maker, though I haven't looked at sales in a while.
You couldn't be more wrong.
 

Amyntas

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Is it really the end of the world to run a few sub-par sessions to get the hang of things and then wait for the inevitable post-holiday patches that make it work better?

I'm not sure how this is a "lose faith in the company" thing. There've been major bugs after every major update/DLC- you wait for them to be fixed and then continue as usual.

We aren’t here for charity. We bought the game and dlcs to play them, not wait four weeks. This attitude is what allows them to continue abusing the core fanbase of their games.

I do not mind playing with a few bugs while they iron out the wrinkles. I do mind not being able to play the game at all after I shelled out 20 for the new dlc. My free time is limited, and I specifically carved out a few hours to try it out. That time was utterly wasted.
 

pieman

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I have been and continue to be an avid supporter of Paradox. I've spent hundreds of dollars on games and dlcs, even though I find the development model the company has come to represent somewhat distasteful. The games are good enough that I am, broadly speaking, willing to overlook that. CK2 is still my favorite game of all time.

With that said, this is the first time I have felt genuinely ripped off by this company. I recently bought Megacorp after reading a bit about all the great changes -- yet, perhaps foolishly, I did not see the posts about how absolutely unplayable the game is right now until I had already invested three hours in a run-through. If I hadn't done that, I would genuinely have returned both DLCs. As it is, I am trapped with them right now.

I hope someone at Paradox reads this and hears us. You will LOSE us if you continue to conduct yourselves in this way. Views and metrics of community interest in Imperator: Rome are already way down, and I personally have come to believe that over and above some of the arbitrary design decisions made in the development of that game (which I have voiced separately in that forum), it is overwhelmingly likely that Imperator will be empty and unsatisfying. However, I am equally certain that the first two to four hours of gameplay will be a blast and feel very fresh -- enough that the army of sycophantic reviewers will give it a 9/10 across the board. We will then be stuck with a broken product that we will convince ourselves is worth waiting for, when it's really just bad business and disrespect for a very loyal fanbase. Paradox's QA apparently never plays past that length into their own damn games.

To those of you who will make apologetics for this behavior and immediately leap to Paradox's defense, please understand that this comes from a place of love. I adore the concept of these games and frankly I was initially very excited about the new economy changes that this update brought. The pops have been dramatically improved.

But the fact that I can't run this two year old game on an absolutely top of the line PC is an absolute slap in the face. I can run AC Odyssey at full settings with no lag or framerate drop. And I won't even go into the anemic, boring and weak AI in a patch developed in 2018. Even if I try to hold off on building fleets to make the game harder, I still roll over everyone. It's pathetic.

What's worse, I strongly suspect that Paradox knew about these problems with the update and put it out to increase Christmas sales. That level of cynicism bodes ill for their further projects, and I personally am done purchasing anything until Paradox meaningfully engages with the community about why they did this and what they plan to do to rectify it in the future.

It seems pretty obvious to me that this was a decision from the higher ups to push the expansion out the door half-baked.

The dev Diaries always cautioned that the changes showing up on the diaries were "far away" and "not coming anytime soon" the last time they said this for a previous patch, they legitimately meant it, that was for 2.0, and that didn't drop for over 6 months or something.

The December 6 release date was so astonishingly and unexpectedly early that people already new the code was going to be coming in hot. a previous thread trying to predict the release date were settling on a Late January/Early February date as most likely. And it seems that's what the devs had in mind too.

I'd bank my money on the devs intending Megacorp to be a February release, and then at late notice word from the top came that they needed to launch what they had before Christmas. And at that point, releasing it right before Christmas would be a repeat of the 1 year anniversary patch that broke the game right before a holiday and wasn't fixed for a month, so they opted for the 6th, so at least they'd have a little time to run damage control before holidays.
 

TheDeadlyShoe

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Some late game chugginess and you're throwing tea in the harbor. Calm down, friend! A good sim game will always be prone to chug. It's the nature of the beast. A game like Assassin's Creed only needs to hit graphical benchmarks. Hyperbole about the game being 'unplayable' is untrue and silly. Do a smaller galaxy, turn down habitables, and only have a reasonable number of gateways/wormholes if you're having trouble. Acting like the game is broken when its not discourages anyone from engaging with you; honesty is the foundation of discussion.
 

BlackUmbrellas

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We aren’t here for charity. We bought the game and dlcs to play them, not wait four weeks. This attitude is what allows them to continue abusing the core fanbase of their games.

I do not mind playing with a few bugs while they iron out the wrinkles. I do mind not being able to play the game at all after I shelled out 20 for the new dlc. My free time is limited, and I specifically carved out a few hours to try it out. That time was utterly wasted.
I'm not here for charity either- I just factor in the whole "it'll be a while before the bugs are fixed" into my purchasing decision. The game absolutely is playable- I have a few sessions on the go, and I've played a few MP sessions with friends. Its just slow.

You just sound impatient, TBH.
 

Masoz

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I followed things closely for awhile and knew it would be bad. It was clear from streams that there was a a colossal amount of to-dos necessary. Some basic interfaces weren't even fully working shortly before the release date announcement came.

But dammit, I wanted to play with the new systems, broken or not. Better to play around with broken code early than not play at all as far I was concerned.

What PDX really screwed up on was marketing this patch as fully-functional . They really, really burned their playerbase on this steaming hot code. Why they got greedy and didn't instead market this as paid early-access like every other developer would have done, I have no idea.
 

BlackUmbrellas

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I followed things closely for awhile and knew it would be bad. It was clear from streams that there was a a colossal amount of to-dos necessary. Some basic interfaces weren't even fully working shortly before the release date announcement came.

But dammit, I wanted to play with the new systems, broken or not. Better to play around with broken code early than not play at all as far I was concerned.

What PDX really screwed up on was marketing this patch as fully-functional . They really, really burned their playerbase on this steaming hot code. Why they got greedy and didn't instead market this as paid early-access like every other developer would have done, I have no idea.
Probably because "paid early access" that comes out when the game would release anyways is a scam.

Seriously. The game isn't that bad. It'll be fixed. Find something else to spend your time on. Do you really have that little to be doing?
 

AlureddeValer

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Probably because "paid early access" that comes out when the game would release anyways is a scam.

Seriously. The game isn't that bad. It'll be fixed. Find something else to spend your time on. Do you really have that little to be doing?

"Game isn't that bad" well it is in a pretty poor state right now! They rushed this out the door against everyone's expectations for 2 reasons: Christmas sales, and Wiz was leaving the project.
You don't have to jump to the defense of a broken product. Fundamentally, the game works fine. But there are a plethora of issues that are going to be left hanging until the devs come back from their infamously long vacations. That's not a good practice.
 

Peko?

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It seems pretty obvious to me that this was a decision from the higher ups to push the expansion out the door half-baked.

The dev Diaries always cautioned that the changes showing up on the diaries were "far away" and "not coming anytime soon" the last time they said this for a previous patch, they legitimately meant it, that was for 2.0, and that didn't drop for over 6 months or something.

The December 6 release date was so astonishingly and unexpectedly early that people already new the code was going to be coming in hot. a previous thread trying to predict the release date were settling on a Late January/Early February date as most likely. And it seems that's what the devs had in mind too.

I'd bank my money on the devs intending Megacorp to be a February release, and then at late notice word from the top came that they needed to launch what they had before Christmas. And at that point, releasing it right before Christmas would be a repeat of the 1 year anniversary patch that broke the game right before a holiday and wasn't fixed for a month, so they opted for the 6th, so at least they'd have a little time to run damage control before holidays.
I found it weird that people predicted release dates in January/February rather than before Christmas, that was always the logical choice of release date. The Christmas sales are very important to most retail products that aren't groceries.
It may have been a decision from the higher ups to release before Christmas but I don't buy for a second that the development team weren't aware of their deadline months before that. I would be surprised if the deadline hadn't been set before the release of 2.1.
 

Losttruppen

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The game is only playable right now if you use mods or have no intention of going to war with the AI or engage in any late game features. 2/3 crises do not function at all, awakened FEs are not doing anything, and after 2300 days take a horrendous amount of time to tick by. I bought Megacorp because it added lategame features in the form of additional megastructures, which currently have no real use right now. I love the new economy but this does not hold me over past 2300 when the glaring issues introduced with 2.2 rear their head.

I also take issue with how they have handled communication post patch. If the devs knew this was coming and this is all they prepared in time they did not present that very well to their customers. I recall multiple Dev Diaries in the past 2 years that have claimed paradox wanted to do a better job of communication but so far I haven't seen much to reinforce that position.
 

BlackUmbrellas

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"Game isn't that bad" well it is in a pretty poor state right now! They rushed this out the door against everyone's expectations for 2 reasons: Christmas sales, and Wiz was leaving the project.
You don't have to jump to the defense of a broken product. Fundamentally, the game works fine. But there are a plethora of issues that are going to be left hanging until the devs come back from their infamously long vacations. That's not a good practice.
Our difference of opinions here is that I don't think people need to be losing their minds, proclaiming the game "unplayable", and saying they're "losing faith in the company" and review-bombing the game over a "bad" patch.

I've had plenty of fun with the patch. Are there issues with it? Sure. What's new? It's something everyone should have in mind when they buy the game or its DLC- updates will bring issues, and those issues may take time to be patched out. This isn't new, this isn't surprising, this isn't A Big Deal.
 
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