This Monday, we'll be doing an Old Gods feature stream. This time, Technologies

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A_Spec

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Greetings,

I'm glad to inform you that Paradox Interactive will be doing a live stream about the Old Gods on the 22nd of Monday at 20CET.

Now we're giving this one a bit of a spin and we'll be focusing on some of the content that hasn't been covered in our previous streams. In addition, we'll be covering your questions about the game so feel free to put them in this thread.


As always, we'll be going live on our Twitch Channel.
 

Elfryc

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Talq and DreadLindwyrm were right, pointed the fact that my questions needed be rewriten to be clear. They're right, so I write down from scratch.


They aren't linked to technology, but have been asked since a long time (I put links within, just to show it), without receiving any proper response from the devs team. This tend to create some forms of interrogation, of worry, and even--speaking frankly--of irritation on the forums these last weeks.

So, I think it's worth asking them once again, because they concern important subjects linked to The Old Gods philosophy. So:



1)
(DreadLindwyrm did well a few post under about the 'Slavic Tribes Question', no need to repeat here).


2)
About the nomads mechanics: one major improvement with CK2 has been the introduction of 'slots' for baronies within each county, permitting much more realistic situations, a much more flexible map, and may permit nomads to be represented in a much more realistic way, like I explained in this post or this one, using Leviathan07 and Riadach suggestions.
So, my very simple question is: We know that there will be nomads in TOG, but don't have any information on them.
How will all of this work? Will they become credible nomads (clans, tribes, ability to migrate...) or will they still be 'usual' title holders without any difference from the other sedentary nobles?


3)
I know the raid question has been the subject for the last dev diary by Goosecreature. However, for what I know, we still don't know if the Hungarian and Sarracen raids (a threat at least equal to that of Vikings in Europa of the time) will occur.
Will they have the possibility to raid farther than the neighboring kingdoms?


4)
Riadach--and others--has suggested for a long time to implement High kings in Ireland, which would permit a real flavor in addition to historical accuracy in Ireland (and for nomads, by the way). Will this appear in The Old Gods?


5)
When speaking about Ireland, if there isn't a High king, it seems the Irish independant counts will be unable to defend themselves when facing Viking conquests, making them unplayable.
What are the results of the tests by the devs so far?


6)
We know from the start that Vikings are the first priority for the devs, and that they intended to work on other pagans later. However, we still have very scarse informations about Zoroastrians, and nearly nothing other than footnotes about the others. Is this intended?


7)
After having asked about this (that's an advantage of having a long public development for the DLC, thank you for that, Paradox!), the surprizing States of France/Burgundy/Holy Roman Empire were turned into West Francia, Lotharignia and East Francia for the 867 start date. So much more satisfying, thanks again!
However, we don't have a clue of what will happen after the 867 start date:

- Doomdark implied after Dev diary #1 that there would be a chain of events to permit the creation of the Holy Roman Empire after 867.
It don't seems that much satisfying to see the East Francia king receive this king of messages ('Hey, guy! I know you're incapable, but you just founded a new State and are now the Holy Roman emperor!'), vs West Francia, Italia and Lotharingia versions ('Hey, dudes! Too late for you! You can't be emperors anymore!). [That's evidently a caricature]
- Another, much more interesting, possibility would be some triggers:
a) Some king is able to succeed the 'Carolingian' emperors? Then, no Holy Roman Empire.
b) Nobody able to succeed them? Let's the pope choose one new emperor, whatever his reasons (diplomacy, piety, military power...);
c) If this lucky guy is king of West Francia, Italy or Lotharingia, nothing happens, but...
d) if he's the king of East Francia, then is launched a new chain of events permitting to create the Holy Roman Empire.

So, we may summarize this question in this way--and that's relevant for the entire philosophy of this DLC: Speaking about the creation of the HRE, will the devs favour historical plausibility or historical accuracy?
(My hope is historical accuracy for the 867/1/1 files, and historical plausibility when the game is launched.)


8)
One last question: what's the extent of historical researches by the devs team for this 867 start date?
The example I will use is very marginal, but may be repeated all over the map. This guy, Gauzfrid, was count of Maine in 867. He's not in the 1066 start date files because, to be honnest, he was of no use for that date.
But will he appear in the 867 start date? If that's the case, it must have been a long and hard work (thanks for this!), but will permit historical accuracy. If not... Well, what is there other than Vikings in 867?
 
Last edited:

soulhunter2077

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will the pagans get their own form of crusade/jihad and will it have it own rules and will each different pagan religion get a different one?

will crusades be prohibited until a certain date like jihads?

how will the fracturing of the norse culture work? will it be possible to stay norse?

will the norse culture be able to blend with other cultures and become a new one , like what happened in normandy?

will the zoroastrians get a boost to help them "rise again" or will they be doomed like the miaphysties?

will children born to petty kings be called princes and princesses?

will there be any way to get people to convert to your culture besides educating their children?

will reformed pagan religions have their own identities or will they just act like christians with the battle for investure?

what other changes have you made to holy wars to stop the christians from curb stomping pagans ?
 

Otto I. HRE

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How is interaction between different types of pagans compared to pagans vs christians? Can you show us something with non-norse pagans?

---

I'm excited and will be tuning in. I really hope you'll be something besides vikings/norse this time.
 
Last edited:

Talq

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Re technology.
So what do those revised categories do?
How does it work in other provinces of your demense outside of your capital? Do you select there as well, or are they linked?
Does capturing technologically better provinces have an impact?
Have the councillor missions (spymaster, steward, marshall, chaplain) been changed at all?

And my broader questions:
Will you be rebalancing elective sucession at all - it seems to be too powerful (+20 most vassals, lets you pick your heir)
Is anything being considered to make 'blobbing' (that as the HRE, ERE & to a lesser extent the republics become more powerful, they become more stable & likely to win wars quicker, so they continue to expand at everybody elses expense) more difficult and/or break them up?
Most games, absent player intervention, Islam will be close to total collapse when the Mongols show up (in some cases down to Mali & Mecca being Christian). Any changes to make them less likely to finish like this?


Seriously? So, this is a first set--lot will follow I think.

Clearly, mine are not about technology. Se show what happened in the last stream, this will appear in one of the next DD, so why bother with this right now when some major questions are still not answered.

I made here a list, with links showing these have been discussed. These links may not be the more accurate, that's just for the demonstration.

<snip>

I'm not Paradox, but I suspect that asking a bunch of questions that amount to 'read this big thread, formulate a question from it, and answer it' is unhelpful at best, and flat out impractical at worst (no way in hell is Boel going to be reading a 3 page thread in the middle of a livestream to work out what you are talking about). Rephrase these as meaningful questions that can be asked in a livestream if you want answers.
 
Last edited:

DreadLindwyrm

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Re technology.
So what do those revised categories do?
How does it work in other provinces of your demense outside of your capital? Do you select there as well, or are they linked?
Does capturing technologically better provinces have an impact?
Have the councillor missions (spymaster, steward, marshall, chaplain) been changed at all?




I'm not Paradox, but I suspect that asking a bunch of questions that amount to 'read this big thread, formulate a question from it, and answer it' is unhelpful at best, and flat out impractical at worst (no way in hell is Boel going to be reading a 3 page thread in the middle of a livestream to work out what you are talking about). Rephrase these as meaningful questions that can be asked in a livestream if you want answers.

The problem is that there is an awful lot of information in some of those threads that need to be looked at in order to understand the whole question.
I'd also expect them to read things /before/ the stream to get the question, rather than in the middle of one...

However, with the Slavic tribes one I think it can be summed up like this:

According to the Primary Chronicle, there should be a number of tribes in the lands shown in the previous livestream as belonging to Koenungardr and Holmgardr.
With information provided by Dragovit in the thread given above, at least some of these should be independent, whilst some are probably best represented by vassals of Novgorod/Koenungardr, Kiev/Holmgardr, and the Cumans. Will this representation be followed, and if not, why are the historically independent tribes not independent in game?
 

takedown47

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Three Viking boats are heading thward shore. Ragnar the commander bellows out the orders.
"Boat number one, you plunder!
Boat number two, you pillage!"
The Vikings in boat three are all rag tag, pale, exhausted. They moan "On no. We rape again!"
 

Talq

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The problem is that there is an awful lot of information in some of those threads that need to be looked at in order to understand the whole question.

Erm, yes, thats the problem with the questions. Put another way, if he can't make the effort to phrase his questions in a way that is comprehensible to somebody who isn't a forum reader and can elicit useful information, he shouldn't throw that task onto Paradox.

This leaves aside that some of those questions amount to 'somebody has a different view of the starting setup to you' to which an entirely reasonable answer is 'yeah so? People have different views on historical questions all the time. Thats 95% of academic history. By the by, we're game developers, not historians, and we both have to consider the effect on gameplay and spend almost all of our time on gameplay rather than worrying who the count of Maine was in 867. By the by, you can also report historical errors when you get the DLC.'

I was also responding in part to his suggestion that this list was going to be one of many. If they are all as vague as that one, they are basically just wasting space.
 

Aardvark Bellay

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So it will be a stream only on technology or else as well ?

On Technology
- How will "too far ahead" penalties work compared to now ?
- Will the spending on tech be limited ?
- Will the demesne tech bonuses still work like now ?
- Any culture specific techs ?

Non-tech questions:
- Will the german county of Altmark be left to the river Elbe as it should be or will it be as wrong (right to the river) as in the first stream ?
- Is capturing characers in sieges still in the concept and will it only be wifes or anyone and how does it work ?
- Do you see a chance to make the Red Sea and adjacent seas navigable ?
- Might we get pirates ?
- Do we get more events ?
- Will relations and traits have more effect/impetus in future patches ? (I'd really like traits and relations to be of bigger importance).
- Will navigation/traveling by ships change ?
- Is there a slight chance we get seasons/weather in the future ?

Thanks
 
Last edited:

Aardvark Bellay

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How about you spent your time fixing the god damn crashing issues instead? It's unacceptable!

A work around is to play without the LoR DLC as its retinues related.
 

apg

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Yay a new stream!

Onto a technology question:

Is the new tech system going to have lots of options for moddability? if so please describe :)
 

Lysistrata

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1. What's the news on the revised rebel system (y'know, how rebels now have "a face and an agenda" or something vague along those lines)?

2. Are there any plans to put in a Merovingian? Like, similar to the last Carolingian in 1066?
 

Veldmaarschalk

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1. What's the news on the revised rebel system (y'know, how rebels now have "a face and an agenda" or something vague along those lines)?

2. Are there any plans to put in a Merovingian? Like, similar to the last Carolingian in 1066?

There were no Merovingians alive in 867, unlike the Carolingian count of Vermandois, who was very much alive in 1066. So something similar won't be possible I would say. The only way to add Merovingians would be to make one up.