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coldsteel

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Gentlemen, so can you explain to me step-by-step how to obtain the Kingdom of Venice from the Doge? So one option is to get an Invasion CB from the Pope(why do I have to be a count and not a duke?). And the second is to wait 100 years so that the Duchy of Venice is part of the Kingdom of Venice... then I have to send the Chancellor to fabricate a claim on the Kingdom, not the Duchy?
 

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Gentlemen, so can you explain to me step-by-step how to obtain the Kingdom of Venice from the Doge? So one option is to get an Invasion CB from the Pope(why do I have to be a count and not a duke?). And the second is to wait 100 years so that the Duchy of Venice is part of the Kingdom of Venice... then I have to send the Chancellor to fabricate a claim on the Kingdom, not the Duchy?

You cannot fabricate a claim on a kingdom, duchy is max.

However, it the duchy of Venice becomes de jure Kingdom of Venice, you can fabricate the claim on the Duchy of Venice, take it over, take a second duchy (as you need 2 to form any kingdom) and form the Kingdom of Venice.
 

Ols

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No, you can't do it that way. You need to have Republican government to form or usurp the Kingdom level Venice title, so the only way to get it is by conquest.
 

coldsteel

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Right exactly, that's my understanding too. You have to be a Republic to form the title. So how do you obtain it by conquest if you cannot obtain a claim on the kingdom-level title, but only on the duchy?
 

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Is that so Ols? If so, then I suppose you cannot, but I've usurped various theocratic and republic titles to make them into feudal ones, including Genoa. If Venice is special in that regard, I know what I'm changing next...
 

RobRoy3

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Right exactly, that's my understanding too. You have to be a Republic to form the title. So how do you obtain it by conquest if you cannot obtain a claim on the kingdom-level title, but only on the duchy?
Again, the only way I know of is by invasion. So you have to be a one province count for it to be possible. I suspect a one province duchy would work, too, if there are any; is Salerno such? If Venice grows, you can get some leeway. You just need to be same/smaller size in order to be eligible for invasion CB.

I won't swear you can't create or acquire the k_venice title by some other means after de jure drift, but I've never done it and I'm skeptical that the suggestions posted here would work. I do know that the republican restriction also limits your ability to give the title away to sons, but it can be inherited fine.

Note, also, that titular kings mess up the display and accessibility for king titles a bit, so if you're a title collector, avoid Venice (and Cyprus and Nubia), until/unless they have de jure counties.
 

Ols

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Start at a later date when Venice has more land and you can get a successful invasion more easily. As I recall there's a point where they own part of Carinithia, part of Dalmatia, Crete and a few other counties in Greece. With that in mind you can have two whole duchies in Italy and spend time getting in the Pope's good books so you can get the invasion. I can't think of any other way to acquire it, because the usurp screen once it's become de jure says "Government must be "Republic""

Genoa is a duchy title, and will always be that way. That's why you can usurp it and take it over as feudal. I don't know of any duchies in game that have special creation conditions, probably because counties can't de jure drift out of them into other duchies. Kingdoms are different, as the whole idea of Venice is that it gradually departs from feudal Italy and instead becomes a legally seperate republican state. If you want to govern Venice de jure after its drifted out, you're supposed to drift it back in to the old feudal system it was under.