This IS the Republic/Theocracy DLC, just in disguise, and here's why.

[Akmatov]

While I quite understand the point about this being a game based on dynasties, which of course probably would be how the historical personalities would have seen things, I would still like to be able to play Venice or Novgorod in this period in this excellent game.

This would require the development of the code to portray some mechanism for who got to run the republic, but as all of the republics, AFAIK, were fairly restricted oligarchies it might be reasonably doable without becoming a whole new game - just something where the current republic player can influence the selection of the next leader. Of course, Venice with the Council of the Ten could be a whole sub game, but whomever is the leader they still have to operate in Medieval Europe/Crusader Kings II which would be interesting.

 

[Hackworthy]

There would certainly have to be restrictions on and/or good reasons in place towards limited territorial expansion. As well as limiting the ability to empower your dynasty within the republic's domains. For instance -as i'm sure most people on these forums are aware- the Doge of Venice was forbidden from owning absolutely any property outside of Venice so that he would think only in the interest of the city.

 

[grisamentum]

Being able to play Venice as a Republic or to guide a Pope, Bishop or Caliph will give the game an extra edge. The Republic could work with electoral succession law. The Papacy might be harder, perhaps.

1. Caliphs are playable

2. Caliphs are not religious rulers. The caliphs were the political successors to the prophet. Not the spiritual successors.

 

[coldsteel]

Well, what about a system like the republics in EU: Rome? You are the power behind the republic but have to contend with having your hands tied by the different political parties that could down-vote going to war, etc. You also have to satisfy the various families/parties by assigning governorships and other positions. But I guess it defeats the point of building a dynasty.

I don't know, I hope to be pleasantly surprised as Paradox somehow creates a mechanic that would work. It would also add a lot of flavour to playing outside of a republic; currently I don't see Venice or Genoa or Novgorod doing well, and historically they were certainly a lot more influential than in my games.

 

[RobRoy3]

I know it's not the same thing, but for people interested in playing Venice (or Genoa), you can take the kingdom title, make it an elective monarchy, and delude yourself into thinking your feudal state is really a republic. A pale shadow, I know, but you can play with that pretty aqua color and the nifty Lion of St. Mark flag. Forcing yourself to create republics in all conquests makes it become a bit more believable.

 

[brxbrx]

You can play as mercs from a save game. I once noticed that I could play as the Varangian Guard captain. There wasn't much to it, though, as I was landless and I couldn't change my title's inheritance.

 

[coldsteel]

I don't think you can make the Kingdom of Venice title, even though they announced you could back in 1.05 or something. I think you have to be a republic to create it.

 

[DisgruntledLemming]

I don't think you can make the Kingdom of Venice title, even though they announced you could back in 1.05 or something. I think you have to be a republic to create it.

You have to wait for the Duchy of Venice to de jure drift into the Kingdom of Venice, before you can take it from the Doge.

 

[hannibal_barca]

They need to add in naval combat and trade to make Genoa, Venice, Pisa etc, playable. Republics in this period didn't make their money through feudalism (as the Monarchies did) but with maritime and land trade. Without naval combat and blockades Venice is mincemeat as it won't be able to block the strait from Veneto to the Lagoon. I don't see why they can't port over the trade mechanism from EU4, or a more watered-down version of it. And who cares if they implement Republic mechanics that will allow a game to go on without a dynasty heir. If you don't like it then don't play as a republic. They have already simulated republic politics in a game, its called EU: Rome Vae Victis. Just port that over.

With a trade system and naval combat, CKII can be truly the greatest game ever. There is just so much potential in this game.

 

[WeissRaben]

Being able to play Venice as a Republic or to guide a Pope, Bishop or Caliph will give the game an extra edge. The Republic could work with electoral succession law. The Papacy might be harder, perhaps.

Actually, the Pope is the only character who will NEVER be playable, according to the devs.

 

[justin6477]

In my current save game, which I updated from 1.07b to 1.08 I can select to play as the Captian of the Vangarian Guard since he is a duke and in the emperor list of vassals. When I select him I have 0 holdings and can summon a mercenary army of around 3500 for free. Don't know what happens when the capt dies though.

My guess is that the game ends.

Better get yourself a wife and forge a claim on something you can conquer. Probably in Livonia.

Actually, the Pope is the only character who will NEVER be playable, according to the devs.

I could be wrong, but I remembered it more like "we don't see ourselves making the Papacy playable". It's not a major difference, but it's not a hard no. My apologies should my memory prove faulty.

 

[Damorte]

From what i understood from someone who managed to play the papacy at around the SoI DLC release, the problem with playing the papacy is that you got thousands of people - from lowborns to emperors all around europe constantly spamming you with request and paying indulgences all day long. This of course turns the game in to one giant message clicking quest. With the pope and message mechanics in place in the game im not sure how this could be changed to make the papacy actually playable.

 

[markmid]

I am looking forward to playing Venice if its ever possible, I can think of a whole host of interesting events and scenarios for a trading empire

From what i understood from someone who managed to play the papacy at around the SoI DLC release, the problem with playing the papacy is that you got thousands of people - from lowborns to emperors all around europe constantly spamming you with request and paying indulgences all day long. This of course turns the game in to one giant message clicking quest. With the pope and message mechanics in place in the game im not sure how this could be changed to make the papacy actually playable.

I'm guessing if the player is pope, keep all them low priority so you can dismiss them (or even turn them over to an AI). While highlighting close family, close borders, claims, allies or if you like high relations as important.

 

[grisamentum]

Hackworthy, I agree with you about that this is how republics must be done to fit within Crusader Kings. You should not play as a republic but rather as the different noble families within a republic. If Paradox would implement this well enough with a good UI for it I am certain it would be a very good addition to the CK world.

It's been done before, in Merchant Prince: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Prince

Worked pretty well.

 

[grisamentum]

I am looking forward to playing Venice if its ever possible, I can think of a whole host of interesting events and scenarios for a trading empire



I'm guessing if the player is pope, keep all them low priority so you can dismiss them (or even turn them over to an AI). While highlighting close family, close borders, claims, allies or if you like high relations as important.

No, you can't, that doesn't work.

As Pope, you get an EVENT every time someone buys an indulgence or does some other useless thing. It's not a notification you can put on low priority. It's a force-pause event. You don't even get the money from the indulgence. It's pointless spam, nothing more.

Here, try it: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/28726768/Abandoned Games/The_Sunni_Caliphate1242_06_11_2.ck2

EDIT: goddamn it they broke it. that saved game would work under 1.07.

 

[RobRoy3]

I don't think you can make the Kingdom of Venice title, even though they announced you could back in 1.05 or something. I think you have to be a republic to create it.

Can't create it, but you can steal it via invasion since it exists at the start. Just need to be a one province count, persuade pope to give you an invasion CB, and have enough money for mercs (yes, some gaminess involved).

 

[grisamentum]

Can't create it, but you can steal it via invasion since it exists at the start. Just need to be a one province count, persuade pope to give you an invasion CB, and have enough money for mercs (yes, some gaminess involved).

Actually, it can come about through drift after 100 years.

However, even when Kingdom of Venice is a de jure title, it can only be created by republics. But it can be created.

 

[Hystarea]

I hope the next DLC isn't a Republic/Theocracy DLC. I hope it's a pagan one. If they make a pagan DLC I will buy the Aztec DLC, but until then no money from me.

 

[henriqueb1]

In my current save game, which I updated from 1.07b to 1.08 I can select to play as the Captian of the Vangarian Guard since he is a duke and in the emperor list of vassals. When I select him I have 0 holdings and can summon a mercenary army of around 3500 for free. Don't know what happens when the capt dies though.

do you see how it says raise and not hire? why would paradox care to change this unless it would become avaible in some dlc?

 

[brxbrx]

do you see how it says raise and not hire? why would paradox care to change this unless it would become avaible in some dlc?

They didn't change it. It was the same deal with me with vassal mamlukes way before this last patch.
And like I said before, you can play as vassal mercenary companies if you load it from a save game- this was also possible before patch 1.08