This is ridiculous!

[NikkTheTrick]

I'm pointing this merely out for gameplay reasons dummy. Of course I should lose the battle and by huge difference too. Yet 60K men murdered and on their losses merely 5000 is uhhhhhhh what was that word again... hmmm, oh yes 'historical'!.

Your losses include those killed in pursuit which, given amount of light horse and horse archers mongols have, is utterly devastating.

Your forces did not put up much fight: half of them were light infantry and archers! Mongol army is clearly far superior to yours and, seeing all that cavalry arrayed against them, your infantry fled, at which point they were butchered. You sent your inferior troops into a hopeless battle and are now surprised at the result?

 

[mr_human_555]

It's your troop composition. I tried facing those doomstack using pure mongol retinue (I'm playing a mongol vassal) and managed to fight them on equal grounds.

And by the way, the mongols are weaker when they're defending, so maybe you can put this to your advantage

 

[FabiusBile]

Well, the bonuses for the mongolian Horse Archers are still broken. They're still about 75% too strong on attack. In 1.08 you should atleast cause some more losses when fighting mongols.

 

[Berkis]

Quite unlike today, Lithuania was full of dense, nearly untouched forests back in the High Middle Ages; I can't even begin to imagine how an army of 100000 horse archers would be able to outmaneuver an army of 100000 Irish footmen in the woodlands, let alone how they would be supplied!

EDIT: Vallinn's post is very good.

Thats a good point. Those are not exactly the plains and steppes. Besides, the battle took place at the beginning of December. It isnt unusual, that the temperatures then are 10, 15 below freezing. Well, feeding 80k horses in December in Narva ....Attrition penalty for 80k cavalry should be immense

 

[Isaios]

This post suddenly got some new depth after I realised that the Altaic Cultural building bonus for Horse Archer is ten times what it should be... So the Supermen theory did have some merit

 

[Comradebot]

They are not. However, Russian forests are very comparable to Lithuanian forests... them being Russian forests in the first place and only "borrowed" by Lithuanians for a century or three. If Mongols can massacre tens of thousands of Russians in Vladimir-Suzdal region, they can do so to Irish in Lithuania. Historic? No. Plausible, yes.

Aye, people seem to frequently underestimate the Mongols ability to adapt to terrain. While they may not have been as effective in certain terrains, they still most likely would've made the best of it.



And personally, I think the only obnoxiousness of the OP's screenshot is that the Mongols can walk around with 90k guys in a single county and have no problem. Otherwise, the Mongols are absolutely fine right now. In my Nubia game I've personally held the line against the Ilkhanate since damn near their arrival, slowly pushing them out of the holy land. The Golden Horde started off strong as they got to ignore the Cumans (there was an ever so thin group of Cuman breakaways in northern Perm they used to essentially walk along the sidelines of the game world until they hit the Russians), and they'd go on to take all of Rus, most of Lithuania, and all of Scandinavia.... then the Crusades started. Three Crusades, one for Finland, Norway, and Sweden respectively, and only the one for Finland failed. After that, the Golden Horde has been regularly erupting into civil wars.

Similar for the Ilkhanate. They took Khiva (well, the southern half at least... some is still by Cumania), Persia, Mesopotamia, Arabia, Syria, and a bit of Jerusalem and Armenia. Then, however, I started regularly fighting to push them out of Jerusalem (most of which I held already when they arrived) and Syria. It was mostly status quo, with me scrapping against their invasions and trying to sneak in a holy war here and there when I could... but finally, they attempted to invade my friends in the independent kingdom of Armenia. I offered to help, and we crushed em', killing two Khans in the process. The other son of the original (from that war) Khan then tried to retaliate with an invasion against me... which also failed. With their levies completely depleted, he apparently accepted the demands of a faction and stepped down for yet another new Khan... and its been a mess to my east since then. I don't think since the end of the 5th Mongol Invasion of Syria that there's been a moment where the Ilkhanate hasn't had a civil war going on.

 

[N Katsyev]

In a game I'm playing with my wife where we both started in Ireland and she became King of Ireland & Greece and I've become King of Norway (reverse Norse invasion!) we've had the Golden Horde destroy every Christian nation up to the borders of France. We've had three failed Crusades for Hungary due to the original GH doomstacks. Last night during our play this all changed though as during a civil war I went for Iceland, my super viking heavy infantry and pikemen murdered near 50k Mongols amidst the mountains of Iceland and that's not counting the horrific toll that attrition took. When we stopped playing last night I just finished a holy war for Skane. The point is, don't expect to hold everything against the Mongols but even when you are originally pushed back, wait, bide your time and you may just be able to start pushing back the tide. And the Mongols should be awesome, I wouldn't want anything less.