• Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

sceluk

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Wait with 125% culture convert cost discount...will it be in the negatives lol? you actually get dip points instead? Did you test it?
 

drucchi

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Wait with 125% culture convert cost discount...will it be in the negatives lol? you actually get dip points instead? Did you test it?
If it works like upkeep it might be like that, or it might be like coring cost that just sets it to instant and zero cost.

(i cite ddrjakes Genoa run and his Minghals run.)
 

Attalus

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If it works like upkeep it might be like that, or it might be like coring cost that just sets it to instant and zero cost.

(i cite ddrjakes Genoa run and his Minghals run.)
BTW drucchi, I don't know if you read it but basically the daughter you married to the heir of house Raoul is dead (along with her husband) so write RP about it
Don't go : "Hey I read a letter from my daughter 5 years ago... blabla ..." because it would get real weird in the Senate :p
 

Razgriz 2K9

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Ya know, in a twist of irony, this AAR makes me wanna look up more about Aztec culture and religion.

God the Pisan's attitude seems bloated...would be a shame if something happened to their lands...
 

CzokletMuss

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I just saw the 6th and 7th idea for the romans, Jesus Christ that is beefy -100% culture conversion? Wow... could you get infinite with the 25% bonus from religious?
Wait with 125% culture convert cost discount...will it be in the negatives lol? you actually get dip points instead? Did you test it?
If it works like upkeep it might be like that, or it might be like coring cost that just sets it to instant and zero cost.

(i cite ddrjakes Genoa run and his Minghals run.)
Most costs have a minimum of 10%, and I sitll think two 50% reductions to it is bonkers.
Yes, it would be bonkers - luckily, it's just my typo. Here are the true Roman NI taken straight away from the game files:
Code:
roman_ideas = {
	start = {
		core_creation = -0.25
		army_tradition = 1
	}
	
	bonus = {
		global_autonomy = -0.10
	}
	

	saint_markos = {
		global_missionary_strength = 0.02
		tolerance_heretic = -2
	 	tolerance_heathen = -2
	}
	sacred_palace = {
		diplomatic_reputation = 1
		advisor_pool = 1
	}
	angelikon = {
		stability_cost_modifier = -0.10
		global_tax_modifier = 0.05
	}
	tagmata = {
		discipline = 0.05
		army_tradition_decay = -0.01
	}
	rom_mare_nostrum = {
		naval_morale = 0.10
	 	global_trade_income_modifier = 0.10
	}
	great_purge = {
		culture_conversion_cost = -0.50
		tolerance_heretic = -2
	 	tolerance_heathen = -2
	}
	sine_fine = {
		fabricate_claims_time = -0.25
		may_explore = yes
	}
}
What changes would you suggest?
We shall talk about this after the Third Session :)
I wonder what sorts of praise and compliments maximos would have laid on the whites if htey held a meeting? Surely he reveres them as much as he does the other demes.
Alas, we will never know :)
I hope that this IAAR doesn't lose it's way like all others like it from the complexity.
I agree. I am also following "Sonderweg oder Anderweg" and since the moment duels were accepted it has gone worse in my opinion. If we can choose I prefer not to allow trials or similar things that make it too much complex and make even larger the space between updates.
You know, you just made me realize that the reasons I never joined any iAAR on this forum was that all of them seemed way too complex to delve into. Huh.
Trials are meant to be relatively easy to put together, in that they won't require a bunch of editing and polishing on the part of Czoklet. I agree about the clutter, that's the reason I don't read many IAAR's, they get too convoluted. But trials would be something that fills in the large gaps between major updates, or at least gives more content to the updates that we have.

TIM2 is structured differently from most IAARs in that it is more rigidly defined by Czoklet's playing choices and opinion on how things ought to go. By playing characters that are more subordinate, and not the most powerful people, there's a different power dynamic.

One of the biggest things TIM2 has going for it is that by using an alt-history setup, it destroys the meta-gaming that can be pervasive in IAARs. I find this especially true of Viccy 2 AARs, because there's a certain way things tend to go in Victoria 2, and certain techs and strategies that are far superior for certain countries. In addition, there's very little lore to them.

TIM2 has TIM behind it, which really richens the whole experience, because we're actually playing for something. The crazy world that TIM2 is set in completely changes how it is played. We don't know what's out there! In Vic 2 IAARs, you know the scramble for Africa will happen, you know the formation of nation-states will happen, etc. In TIM2, we know jack shit. And that's awesome.

In addition, I think it has to be said that Czoklet is really amazing. Another problem I tend to have with IAARs is that there's not enough concrete stuff. By giving us updated maps, geopolitical situations, and the events all nicely edited, the world of TIM2 is, ironically, much more concrete than other IAARs. It also allows the complexity of it to be easily digested.

So I think it's important to make sure TIM2 doesn't lose it's head, but I don't think it would hurt to have more content, especially between chapters.
Well trials could be interesting if they turn well. :)
It would make us more careful about our words, especially if the Whites go on religious trials every once in a while :p
Trials sound amazing.
I've already picked out a few sins for my next character... I'm going to do a proper Casanova Baratheon frat boy sooner or later, I mean Nick was sort of one at the beginning but I didn't play it as much as I should have.:p
A religious zealot would also be fun.
First of all, thanks for the very kind words luciusmalfoy012. Five points to Red Demes! ;)
Second of all, I'm introducing more and more forms of interactivity step by step, so to all those who are worried about the thread being completely cluttered - don't be :)
Third of all, I agree that it is possible to add more stuff - especially one fitting the setting as well as trials against heretics, traitors etc. do - and don't get lost in the increasing complexity.
And last but not the least, a very good analysis of differences between "Imperium Sine Fine" and standard V2 iAARs! I have to admit, I didn't think about it that way.
Great update!
I'm tempted to candidate for the Senate but I fear studies won't let me enough time for the IAAR... Maybe next year!
You can join at any time (as long as there are vacant seats)! :)

Yep, my Senator is homosexual suffering rumours about homosexuality. This does make me wonder- is homosexuality considered a crime in the Imperium, and what's the punishment (death, flogging, dungeon etc)?
I like your idea. It will add things to do and interactivity.
Re: Parrotguy: I seriously doubt the Imperium would tolerate homosexuality in any way or form. I mean, the Brits were still chemically castrating homosexuals into the 1950's in our world, I have no doubt worse things would befall an outed gay man in this world. Harsh truths, but then again, we did just affirm slavery last session. Harsh realities for a harsh world, just remember to be in character when going on an anti-gay tirade!
I remember that in one of the CK2 update severe anti-gay laws were adopted, because I thought it was quite "sad" (but totally in universe, especially given the "demographic" pressure) that such legislation was adopted because once it is it takes centuries to depenalize (yay, I know in this universe they have others problems than sexual minorities rights, but still. Intersectionality and all of that :p Against tyranny, slavery, xenoi and patriarchal oppression!).

Here it is:

(...)

EDIT: I have to mention that such an (increasingly) deep universe plays a big role on how awesome this AAR is :)
Yeah, I know that it's a crime- what I was asking is the punishment.
Yeah, that's what I was looking for- a deep universe indeed.
Well, as the punishment is harsh it seems like my Senator got some things to fear- too bad we didn't have trials before (now my Senator is almost dead), I might have let him say a little more about the homosexuality issue for an interesting trial and maby an interesting end to my poor character :p
Your question actually made me check out Corpus Juris Civilis of Justinian and here's what I found:
(Institutes 4, 18, 2-3) Public prosecutions are as follows....the Lex Julia for the suppression of adultery punishes with death not only those who dishonour the marriage bed of another but also those who indulge in unspeakable lust with males. The same Lex Julia also punishes the offence of seduction, when a person, without the use of force, deflowers a virgin or seduces a respectable widow. The penalty imposed by the statute on such offenders is the confiscation of half their estate if they are of respectable standing, corporal punishment and banishment in the case of people of the lower orders.
That's how it was done in 6th century in real life, so it's only natural IMHO than in the world of "Imperium Sine Fine" things are even worse, as per the laws quoted by Ticket Cookie. One also have to consider that, as luciusmalfoy012 said, even in UK in 19th century it was a punishable offense; for centuries approach to these matters was based more on biblical story of Sodom and Gomorrah than tolerance, so using modern perspective to describe these things in the past is very anachronistic. Anyways, to to sum it up, Senator guilty of "indulging in unspeakable lust with males" would be punished with confiscation of property and death by burning.

By the way, Code of Justinian is a very... inspiring lecture:

Title 7. Concerning apostates.

1. The Emperor Constantius and Julian-Caesar to Thalassius, Praetorian Prefect.

If anyone, after renouncing the venerated Christian faith, should become a Jew, and join their sacrilegious assemblies, We order that, after the accusation has been proved, his property shall be confiscated to the Treasury.

Given at Milan, on the fifth of the Nones of July, during the Consulate of Constantius, Consul for the ninth time, and Julian-Caesar, Consul for the second time, 357.

(...)

Title 14. Concerning the correction of slaves.

1. The Emperor Constantine to Bassus.

If a master should punish his slave by striking him with rods or straps, or, in order to keep him in custody, should place him in chains, no objection can be raised with reference to the time he was confined, and the master need have no fear of criminal prosecution, in case the slave should die. For, indeed, he does not use his rights without moderation in a case of this kind, but he will become guilty of homicide if he should intentionally inflict a fatal wound upon the slave by means of rods, stones, or weapons; or order him to be hung; or direct him to be hurled from a precipice; or give him poison; or lacerate his body publicly by the application of iron hooks to his sides; or burn his limbs with fire; or cause his joints to waste away by depriving them of their humors and blood; or deprive him of life by means of torture worthy of the cruelty of the most savage barbarians.

Given at Rome, on the fifth of the Ides of May, during the Consulate of Constantine, Consul for the fifth time, and Licinius, 312.
Disclaimer: I'm talking about the setting, not about my personal opinions. Just saying :)
We all are going to miss him, admit it.
I'm currently writing my speech and a question has arisen- how will you distribute the influence this time?
I mean, if the Senate advices that the expedition to the Eastern Ocean will be financed by the Imperium, surely this is a victory to the Blue demes- however, if the Senate passes a decision for a White national focus and idea group this will be a (much) bigger victory for the White demes.
Oh, and also- at the time of the Senate session, what year is it? I searched and didn't found.
The Demes which wins "the most" gains the influence. In this case it depends in how many areas said Demes will enforce its will. So if, say, the Senate chooses Administrative Ideas (White Demes) and ADM Focus (White Demes) but also goes to war with xenoi (Red Demes) and supports the expedition (Blue Demes), it would give influence to the White Demes.
Well since I'm planning too, I just wanted to say that the apparent heir of the house Raoul, Leontios and his wife Margrethe Hvide were killed in an ambush while visiting a minor holding near Adrianople. No one knows who did it although the Athanatoi investigated the matter. But their son Alexandros who was in Konstantinopolis during their murder is still alive and well. Now the heir is Maximos married to the daughter of Senator Salamis.

(I know I should have waited the Session but since it concerns also house Hvide I decided to post it ;) )

And about influence, I think the Blues might be able to get quite an influence after the session. I mean we get to choose an idea and this event was made for us.
Also if a Blue wants to take the role mentionned in the events he should say so now before others take the ideas as well and we don't end up saying : "I went in Sinai ! No it was me ! No me !" :D
Who knows, maybe finally the time has come for the Blues? :)
The Blue supporter mentioned in the event is going to be an NPC for the reason you mentioned (to avoid argument); in the future when your characters would be able to become exploreres and conquistadors there won't be NPCs however.
The next session will be interesting...

The Whites are in power, but they have few members and they have been horribly corrupt. Domenico is a man of honor, and may not wish to associate with such scoundrels anymore. In addition, Domenico's been alive longer than I had originally planned, which means Christoforo gets less time. I'm not sure if he'll be around for the next idea group, so I have to take that into consideration as well.

Also, I'm very sad that Andre Massena's not able to continue with us, I really liked the dynamic we had. Oh well, I'll have to make more enemies, not that hard really. :D
Oh it definitely will be interesting :) And yeah, sad that Andre had to leave us for a while (?).
Oh I think the next generation of Blues will be interesting to follow :p
The murder of Leontios opens up the door to Maximos Raoul, one character I can't wait to use
Yep, and the marriage between Maximos and the sister of my future Senator, Antiochos, will make it even more interesting- either a great alliance, or if Maximos will treat her harshly, the opposite :p
"The Sims: Medieval" :p


In other news, after working perfectly well for the past few days (I was taking screenshots and checking out the ledger) the main save of "Imperium Sine Fine" - as well as 2 backup saves - suddenly refuse to open and crash the game on start... I will probably figure it out by the time next chapter is going to be made but I'm afraid I may not be able to take more screenshots for the time being :( Keep it in mind while asking questions during the Session.
 
Last edited:

Blogman66

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What? I didn't know I died, I thought I still had another session before death.. Oh well, I'll be sending you the application shortly
 

CzokletMuss

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What? I didn't know I died, I thought I still had another session before death.. Oh well, I'll be sending you the application shortly
Well, you know what they say: life is a prison, death a release ;)

I'm waiting for the application though it's pretty straigthforward to write a new character so don't worry, you'll surely get approved before the Session starts.
 

drucchi

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BTW drucchi, I don't know if you read it but basically the daughter you married to the heir of house Raoul is dead (along with her husband) so write RP about it
Don't go : "Hey I read a letter from my daughter 5 years ago... blabla ..." because it would get real weird in the Senate :p
All i can say is angry, cranky old norseman. So was Frederik invited to the funeral, if not i will wager that the old Norseman will be very angry with old Hadrianos.
 

Attalus

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All i can say is angry, cranky old norseman. So was Frederik invited to the funeral, if not i will wager that the old Norseman will be very angry with old Hadrianos.
Of course you were. Why would the old Hadrianos not invite you ? He needs someone to share his sadness :p
 

McGrey

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I just leaf this picture of one of my vassals from my current game as Air here.



Sunni. Tribal Federation. Byzantium.
 

CzokletMuss

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I just leaf this picture of one of my vassals from my current game as Air here
[size=+1]Sunni.[/size] [size=+2]Tribal Federation.[/size] [size=+3]Byzantium.[/size]
That's... EXTRA HERESY!

 

Razgriz 2K9

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I just leaf this picture of one of my vassals from my current game as Air here.

Sunni. Tribal Federation. Byzantium.
So...you've reverted Byzantium to the Bronze Ages? O_O

I didn't even know there could be Islamic Greeks either... O.O

All of this seems so weird. o_O
 

Leandor

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Hahahaha, that byzantium! You will burn in hell, you know?

Oh, and in life too. Prepare to get caught wearing purple.
 

CzokletMuss

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[size=+2]DIARIUM SENATORUM IMPERIALIS #5[/size]


[size=+1]ALBUM SENATORIUM[/size]
Illustrious protospatharios Michael Komnenos, President of the Imperial Senate and vestarches of the Sacred Palace, hereby annouces:

1) that the noble Houses have chosen the following honourable aristoi as their new delegates in the Imperial Senate:
  • senator Ferrantios Kastelos
  • senator Eumenes Ouranos
2) that the privilege of representation in the Imperial Senate has been granted to the following noble Houses:
  • House de Mallorca (played by: tunapirate)
3) that the aforementioned noble Houses have chosen the following honourable aristoi as their first delegates in the Imperial Senate:

  • [*] senator Alexandre de Mallorca (played by: tunapirate)

4) that the following noble Houses have the right to appoint new delegates to the Imperial Senate
  • House Zvonimir
3) that as of 1st January 6988 Anno Mundi (1480 AD) the Imperial Senate consists of 27 SENATORS, as shown in the following list:

[SIZE=+1]
NRIMPERIAL SENATORPLAYED BYSENATE FACTION
1.Hadrianos Raoul (Blue Leader)(Attalus)Blue Demes
2.Ioannes Kantakouzenos(MaskedPersonage)White Demes
3.Ferrantios Kastelos(Leandor)unaffiliated
4.Lazaros Melissenos(McGrey)Blue Demes
5.Theophilus Rhadenos (White Leader)(viola)White Demes
6.Septimark Wedrovander(Kingjerkera)unaffiliated
7.Anastasios VI Salamis(ParrotGuy)Blue Demes
8.Aeneas Taurinus(Ponce_The_Great)unaffiliated
9.Konstantinos Moustakas(Andre Massena)Red Demes
10.Georgios Tsoukalos(Halocon720)Blue Demes
11.pending nomination of the House Zvonimir(Paragonfilmgoat)???
12.Alvar Cortez(zqrfmb)unaffiliated
13.Nicholaus II d'Este-Ravenna(Undead Martyr)Red Demes
14.Domenico Columbo (Red Leader)(luciusmalfoy012)Red Demes
15.Michael Scipion(varetta)Red Demes
16.Zubinus V Jalius(alamking)Blue Demes
17.Alexzander Victorianous (KotoR45)unaffiliated
18.Eumenes Ouranos(Blogman66)unaffiliated
19.Osgar Godric(Malal)Red Demes
20.Alexios Batavos(LordSolar)Red Demes
21.Frederik V Hvide(Drucchi)Blue Demes
22.Alexios Chrysos(Mighty Imhotep)unaffiliated
23.Arman II Eliasian(eliaspays)unaffiliated
24.Gaius Arrius(TheAnguishedOne)Blue Demes
25.Marcus VI Serapis(Serpent)unaffiliated
26.Ioustinianos Argyros(Tharassian)unaffiliated
27.Ferruccio di Capponi(Enlil)unaffiliated
28.Alexandre de Mallorca(tunapirate)unaffiliated
29.(VACANT)(VACANT)...
30.(VACANT)(VACANT)...
[/SIZE]

May the blessing of Saint Markos be upon all of us.

Signed,
Michael Komnenos
President of the Imperial Senate

[size=+1]***[/size]

Additionaly, since I was asked about my opinion on which Idea Groups would be good for the Imperium:


Green is the best group, yellow are worth considering, the rest should NOT be even mentioned. This is of course only my opinion - you, as Senators, shall choose the Second Idea Group. I just hope you will choose wisely, for the sake of the Imperium :)
 

luciusmalfoy012

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Obviously, this is your opinion, but what makes you think Expansion is a better choice that Exploration? We don't have much space to colonize currently, and the only good things Expansion gives that Exploration doesn't is the CB vs asians and extra trade things. Exploration gives us the forcelimits modifier and the ability to explore, which Expansion doesn't.

I would support Expansion ideas if we get a few explorers from an event, similar to how Portugal gets 2 or 3 explorers at game start despite not having exploration ideas yet. It makes little sense that the Blues get an idea group, and support overseas exploration, but then sit on their bums for 30 years for the next opportunity to explore. Just my two cents.

It could be like this: If the Senate chooses expansion, and supports exploration for the other vote, we get two mediocre explorers who will explore until they die of natural causes.
 

McGrey

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So...you've reverted Byzantium to the Bronze Ages? O_O

I didn't even know there could be Islamic Greeks either... O.O

All of this seems so weird. o_O
The tooltip for a Tribal Federation is "A governmental form where a confederation of tribes rule with a certain degree of internal autonomy but are nationally governed by a central authority.". So I could say I made Byzantium a modern federal state! And for all of this you just have to thank the glorious imperialism CB!
 

Leandor

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Obviously, this is your opinion, but what makes you think Expansion is a better choice that Exploration? We don't have much space to colonize currently, and the only good things Expansion gives that Exploration doesn't is the CB vs asians and extra trade things. Exploration gives us the forcelimits modifier and the ability to explore, which Expansion doesn't.

I would support Expansion ideas if we get a few explorers from an event, similar to how Portugal gets 2 or 3 explorers at game start despite not having exploration ideas yet. It makes little sense that the Blues get an idea group, and support overseas exploration, but then sit on their bums for 30 years for the next opportunity to explore. Just my two cents.

It could be like this: If the Senate chooses expansion, and supports exploration for the other vote, we get two mediocre explorers who will explore until they die of natural causes.
+1. Totally agree. The event, in case that we chose Expansion, should be a priority. We will need explorers to be capable to use this ideas. And... what if this explorer is called after one of the member of our Houses? That would be great, and it would create a feeling that the senate does exist beyond Constantinople.
 

Undead Martyr

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I agree, some event for explorers would be worthwhile.


Why do you not think Aristocratic is a good choice- because we've already taken quantity? It's a decent early military idea group- an extra diplomat, military tech cost, a manpower boost, leader shock, are all decent for early game. I end up taking it more often than not.
Admin ideas are really good, though, especially for blobby empires. The merc reduction is great, too.

Colombo and I shall stand against our false Italian brothers! In Defense of Heresy? Dialogues with the Mongols?
 

CzokletMuss

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Why do you not think Aristocratic is a good choice- because we've already taken quantity? It's a decent early military idea group- an extra diplomat, military tech cost, a manpower boost, leader shock, are all decent for early game. I end up taking it more often than not.
Two military ideas in a row? Imperium is already behind xenoi in MIL tech.