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luciusmalfoy012

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If we are going to change the idea groups around and what they 'support', I have a few suggestions.

1. Administrative is boost the military, or at the very least boosts both the military and the Whites. It makes no sense that an idea groups that's mostly military benefits decreases Red Demes authority so much.

2. To compensate the Whites for administrative, I think Espionage should be a 'White' ideagroup. The Whites have the greatest natural influence in the court, and have much deeper connections to the establishment. It would make sense for them to have that characteristic.

3. Expansion should be made a 'Blue' idea, and Influence a 'White' or 'Neutral' ideagroup. The Blues don't really have much connection to the Influence stuff, at least not nearly as much as Expansion.
 

CzokletMuss

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If we are going to change the idea groups around and what they 'support', I have a few suggestions.

1. Administrative is boost the military, or at the very least boosts both the military and the Whites. It makes no sense that an idea groups that's mostly military benefits decreases Red Demes authority so much.

2. To compensate the Whites for administrative, I think Espionage should be a 'White' ideagroup. The Whites have the greatest natural influence in the court, and have much deeper connections to the establishment. It would make sense for them to have that characteristic.

3. Expansion should be made a 'Blue' idea, and Influence a 'White' or 'Neutral' ideagroup. The Blues don't really have much connection to the Influence stuff, at least not nearly as much as Expansion.
So you propose this:



I'm not convinced to be honest.
 

luciusmalfoy012

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So you propose this:



I'm not convinced to be honest.
Well, it's your AAR after all, but those were just preliminary suggestions. I thought it a bit odd that in the first session, administrative gave so much influence to the Whites despite it being chosen for its military benefits. IDK, perhaps it should just be on a case by case basis?

I also wonder how 'taboo' topics will change in the Senate as the game goes on; will the Senate still not be allowed to propose alliance with heretics in 1804? That's along with so many other things really...
 

varetta

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So you propose this:



I'm not convinced to be honest.
What if Humanist are made a Blue idea. Expansion a Red idea and Administration keeps being a White idea?

I am basing this suggestion on the facts that:

- We are talking about all the time of the game (1400-1800), not just on current situation.
- Traders, merchants and Bourgeois in OTL were who propose such Ideas (Humanism).
- It is the Administration who would be interested on keeping and ever expanding ( ;) ) administration.
- The Army is who wants to expands the borders of the Empire.
- It allows a good balance between good and bad ideas (from a game perspective) between all the groups.

What do you think?

PS: White demes represents the Church but also the Bureaucracy if I understood it correctly, no?
 

Attalus

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What if Humanist are made a Blue idea. Expansion a Red idea and Administration keeps being a White idea?

I am basing this suggestion on the facts that:

- We are talking about all the time of the game (1400-1800), not just on current situation.
- Traders, merchants and Bourgeois in OTL were who propose such Ideas (Humanism).
- It is the Administration who would be interested on keeping and ever expanding ( ;) ) administration.
- The Army is who wants to expands the borders of the Empire.
- It allows a good balance between good and bad ideas (from a game perspective) between all the groups.

What do you think?

PS: White demes represents the Church but also the Bureaucracy if I understood it correctly, no?
Expansion msut be a Blue Idea
It is basically based on exploration so it is a Blue focus
 

TheAnguishedOne

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Shouldn't Espionage be a Red Idea? I would think spying on the enemy would help the military more than traders or priests.
 

ParrotGuy

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I agree with luciusmalfoy on the ideas. It sound just about right.
Expansion fits the blues indeed, and administrative whites- but it leaves the whites much weaker, so they should be given at least espinoge and influence.
 

CzokletMuss

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You have made an effort to block the humanist ideas. Mwahahahaha...
"Tolerance of heretics" and other blasphemous ideas are not even worthy mentioning ;)
Well, it's your AAR after all, but those were just preliminary suggestions. I thought it a bit odd that in the first session, administrative gave so much influence to the Whites despite it being chosen for its military benefits. IDK, perhaps it should just be on a case by case basis?

I also wonder how 'taboo' topics will change in the Senate as the game goes on; will the Senate still not be allowed to propose alliance with heretics in 1804? That's along with so many other things really...
The problem is with how faction system work in EU4 really. You have a zero-sum game situation when there are 100 influence points which has to be divided among three Factions. So you can have (100; 0; 0) situation or (50; 30; 20) or (35; 35; 30) but you can't possible have (110; 20; 57) for instance. This means that during every Senate Session one Faction has to "win" and gain dominance (+100 influence points) or none of the Factions wins (when for example there are only 5 Senators who vote and there is no quorum). Changing this would mean that I will have to arbitrarily decide what's worth more points of influence and what's worth less - and by doing so I'm sure some of you sooner or later would be frustrated or dissapointed with my judgement. Hence arguments, hence no fun. I'm open to suggestions though, because the Faction system is mainly for you, the players; just remember that some limitations are there because of how vanilla EU4 works.

As for your question - it all depends on what happens game-wise and story-wise. This is an AAR not a novel, so I'm as clueless as you are about what the situation is going to be in 200-300 years :) Some changes will have to be made I imagine.
What if Humanist are made a Blue idea. Expansion a Red idea and Administration keeps being a White idea?

I am basing this suggestion on the facts that:

- We are talking about all the time of the game (1400-1800), not just on current situation.
- Traders, merchants and Bourgeois in OTL were who propose such Ideas (Humanism).
- It is the Administration who would be interested on keeping and ever expanding ( ;) ) administration.
- The Army is who wants to expands the borders of the Empire.
- It allows a good balance between good and bad ideas (from a game perspective) between all the groups.

What do you think?

PS: White demes represents the Church but also the Bureaucracy if I understood it correctly, no?
As for your question, it's all in the description:



As for the idea - that sounds pretty good... except that Blues would be really angry if choosing Expansion would give influence to the Reds :p It's hard to determine which Faction should gain power from some of these groups; hell, maybe I should make a separate Neutral group which instead of giving +100 to one Faction would give +40 and +30 the the rest of them? Then instead of (100; 0; 0) we would have (40; 30; 30). Because right now I think everyone can agree only to this division:



The rest of the ideas are hard to classify so easily and you can make case basically for every one of them to be in every Faction.

Anyways, these are just technicalities. Now if you would excuse me, I've just made myself a nice cup of coffe and I'm going to actually play "Imperium Sine Fine" and try to liberate Aegyptus. :)
 

Malal

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anyways, these are just technicalities. Now if you would excuse me, i've just made myself a nice cup of coffe and i'm going to actually play "imperium sine fine" and try to liberate aegyptus. :)
{Deus Vult!!!}
 

viola

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i think we should obviously choose humanist ideas, and begin to align ourselves to a peaceful friendship with the aztecs.
HERESY! *BLAM*
[HR][/HR]
Back on topic, Administrative should definitely be a White idea, the Whites are the administrative faction and it would be weird to see the Administrative Group helping any other faction.


Here's how I see each idea group:

INNOVATIVE: either Blue or White (probably more Blue than White).
RELIGIOUS: definitely White.
ECONOMIC: mainly White, but also something Blue.
EXPANSION: Neutral, it seems something exactly in the middle between the Blue and Red Demes.
ADMINISTRATIVE: definitely White.
HUMANIST: Heresy! Blue, they are the more innovative faction of the Senate.

ESPIONAGE: perfectly Neutral, it could fit just fine in all of the three Demes.
DIPLOMATIC: either Blue or White, after all I think that the Empire's bureaucrats would know something about foreign relations.
TRADE: definitely Blue.
EXPLORATION: definitely Blue.
MARITIME: Blue, with a Red influence.
INFLUENCE: White, as it deals with the management of tributary states and vassals.

ARISTOCRATIC: either Red or White, nobles are after all an important part of the Imperial Administration.
(PLUTOCRATIC: if for some clearly Heretical reason we become a vile Republic then this would be a Blue idea. Evil, evil progressive Blues.)
OFFENSIVE: definitely Red.
DEFENSIVE: definitely Red.
QUALITY: definitely Red.
QUANTITY: definitely Red.
NAVAL: Blue, with a Red influence.
 

Attalus

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HERESY! *BLAM*
[HR][/HR]
Back on topic, Administrative should definitely be a White idea, the Whites are the administrative faction and it would be weird to see the Administrative Group helping any other faction.


Here's how I see each idea group:

INNOVATIVE: either Blue or White (probably more Blue than White).
RELIGIOUS: definitely White.
ECONOMIC: mainly White, but also something Blue.
EXPANSION: Neutral, it seems something exactly in the middle between the Blue and Red Demes.
ADMINISTRATIVE: definitely White.
HUMANIST: Heresy! Blue, they are the more innovative faction of the Senate.

ESPIONAGE: perfectly Neutral, it could fit just fine in all of the three Demes.
DIPLOMATIC: either Blue or White, after all I think that the Empire's bureaucrats would know something about foreign relations.
TRADE: definitely Blue.
EXPLORATION: definitely Blue.
MARITIME: Blue, with a Red influence.
INFLUENCE: White, as it deals with the management of tributary states and vassals.

ARISTOCRATIC: either Red or White, nobles are after all an important part of the Imperial Administration.
(PLUTOCRATIC: if for some clearly Heretical reason we become a vile Republic then this would be a Blue idea. Evil, evil progressive Blues.)
OFFENSIVE: definitely Red.
DEFENSIVE: definitely Red.
QUALITY: definitely Red.
QUANTITY: definitely Red.
NAVAL: Blue, with a Red influence.
Well the Blues are everywhere so even if I agree with you, it seems that the choices in terms of idea would be limited for the Whites (MUHAHA :D )
 

CzokletMuss

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I've just finished playing and I have to say that Chapter 1 is going to be pretty damn epic :cool:
 

Malal

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I've just finished playing and I have to say that Chapter 1 is going to be pretty damn epic :cool:
I hope this means that the Imperial army has reclaimed Egypt.
 

TheAnguishedOne

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I've just finished playing and I have to say that Chapter 1 is going to be pretty damn epic :cool:
After the Prologue, I'm hoping for a victory... but a loss would lead to such a fun Senate Session.
 

luciusmalfoy012

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I've just finished playing and I have to say that Chapter 1 is going to be pretty damn epic :cool:
I hope 'awesome' means 'successful' and not 'Aztecs declaring war on us'
 

Attalus

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After the Prologue, I'm hoping for a victory... but a loss would lead to such a fun Senate Session.
"-The Reds are to blame !
-No the Whites are to blame!
-False it's the Blues who are to blame !
-Fools, it's because of the indecision of the unaffiliated !"

And this until someone uses his sword to go on a rampage murder :p
 

CzokletMuss

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HERESY! *BLAM*
Ah, it's good to know there are still pious Romans around! By the way, does your character have a beard? Because I always imagined him more or less like this:


Back on topic, Administrative should definitely be a White idea, the Whites are the administrative faction and it would be weird to see the Administrative Group helping any other faction.

Here's how I see each idea group:

INNOVATIVE: either Blue or White (probably more Blue than White).
RELIGIOUS: definitely White.
ECONOMIC: mainly White, but also something Blue.
EXPANSION: Neutral, it seems something exactly in the middle between the Blue and Red Demes.
ADMINISTRATIVE: definitely White.
HUMANIST: Heresy! Blue, they are the more innovative faction of the Senate.

ESPIONAGE: perfectly Neutral, it could fit just fine in all of the three Demes.
DIPLOMATIC: either Blue or White, after all I think that the Empire's bureaucrats would know something about foreign relations.
TRADE: definitely Blue.
EXPLORATION: definitely Blue.
MARITIME: Blue, with a Red influence.
INFLUENCE: White, as it deals with the management of tributary states and vassals.

ARISTOCRATIC: either Red or White, nobles are after all an important part of the Imperial Administration.
(PLUTOCRATIC: if for some clearly Heretical reason we become a vile Republic then this would be a Blue idea. Evil, evil progressive Blues.)
OFFENSIVE: definitely Red.
DEFENSIVE: definitely Red.
QUALITY: definitely Red.
QUANTITY: definitely Red.
NAVAL: Blue, with a Red influence.
Hmm, the problem is how to translate "X with Y influence" into game terms. You know what, maybe we - Faction Leaders and me - should discuss this on reddit? Let's not spam the main thread with this because it can easily evolve into 5+ pages argument. What do you think?
I hope this means that the Imperial army has reclaimed Egypt.
You'll see.
Cool :)
BTW how many time will there be in average between two Senate Sessions (RP I think of not RL) ?
Originally I wanted to have 2 chapters per 1 Session but we'll see about that. I may call Third Session sooner than you think (next week?) because there are a lot of things to discuss but first I have to release the chapter.

And by the way what's taking most time is not writing but editing text and screenshots - I have more than 180 of them just after this one chapter...
I hope 'awesome' means 'successful' and not 'Aztecs declaring war on us'
:closedeyes:
After the Prologue, I'm hoping for a victory... but a loss would lead to such a fun Senate Session.
"-The Reds are to blame !
-No the Whites are to blame!
-False it's the Blues who are to blame !
-Fools, it's because of the indecision of the unaffiliated !"

And this until someone uses his sword to go on a rampage murder :p
The last stronghold of Christendom run by a commitee - what could possible go wrong? :p The best thing about this is that even if you (Senators) made bad decisions it still fits the story: inefficient, corrupt and downright stupid government is a very grimdark theme IMHO.
 
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