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alamking

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{Your wall of text has convinced me to vote for the red even thought it was my idea for quantity}]
 

Ponce_The_Great

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{{Is anyone else amused how Domenico just endorsed Quantity, the idea group that Moustakas has been endorsing since the beginning. Not that its bad or anything, but I feel like Moustakas is going to get some satisfaction seeing as how even one of his (likely) enemies is seeing the logic of his choice.

BTW props to you for breaking down all the mondifiers for the ideas and factions and giving us a nice cliff notes of that stuff. I can almost see Domenico managing to prevent us all from going off the rails on the crazy train that is the Imperium}}
 
Last edited:

luciusmalfoy012

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{{At this point, Domenico is just trying to hold his faction together by giving it what it wants. Also, his hatred for the Whites is far more than for Moustakas at this point.

And the flip isn't just on the fly, I was basing my pre-election stuff on pre- AoW, which changed some important things that I didn't fully realize. Also, I didn't know that voting administrative would let the Whites win, because their maluses are really bad if we want to win a war. I will try to RP more fully once the Empire is secure, but right now, this is legitimately what I think will save the Imperium. Manpower will be critical.}}

{Domenico also doesn't want to be killed off, I would assume}}
 

Andre Massena

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[size=+1]Senator Konstantinos Moustakas[/size]

*Moustakas mostly listened quietly (for him at least) through the debates, smiling smugly to himself every time Colombo endorsed his program*

'Tis a good thing my brethren elected Colombo over me, for who else good ape the plan of the man he defeated?
 

Zqrfmb

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Senator Juan Cortez

Senator Columbo makes good points in regards to quantity, as we would certainly be doomed if our reserves ran empty. As such, if we are to make military reforms, I cannot say a word against his reasoning. I can, however, propose an alternative: aristocracy. As we are all well aware, the former Megas Domestikos made some... controversial changes to the armies' command structure, and many of our miltary officers were... purged. This has led to a lack of good leadership in our forces, and a general lack of nobles to properly govern the peasantry. With a strong local nobility, we can better resist the advances of the xenoi, whom I am certain will be eying our limes while our forces are pre-occupied with mongols. Further, it would encourage our noble officers to return to leading from the front, rather than cowering in the back and trying to avoid any risks for fear of being purged by the athanatoi if their strategy does not pay off. Most importantly, however, is the influx of military thinkers amongst the nobility, who would help us keep a tactical and technological edge over our foes.

{{While in our situation, MP and MP recovery as the first two ideas would help a lot, I think 100% core-creation cost would be extremely helpful, as it reduces AI willingness to attack and take vast swaths of territory, which would lessen the pressure on us. Also the tech bonus would help immensely against the aztecs, who start more advanced than us, have 15% faster miltiary tech, and a set of ideas that would make the Big Blue Blob turn pink}}
 

CzokletMuss

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{{Keep in mind that I'm stil tweaking the bonuses each Faction provides because of changes introduced in AoW, as well as custom NI (Roman and Aztec), which sadly is the price to be paid for updating all of this to 1.8. They will change a little, not drastically but will change nonetheless. Also I plan to call a Second Session after chapter 1 or 2, so I doubt that bonuses from whichever Faction wins will be there for very long}}
 

ParrotGuy

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[SIZE=+1]Senator Anastasios VI Salamis:[/SIZE]
*Anastasios leans towards Hadrianos Raoul at his right and whispers to him really, really silently so no one expect of him hears:
The titles don't matter... They aren't important. However, it seems like the Emperor is insulting us.
We are the biggest faction by far, and by giving us only one title he clearly tells us his opinion on the blue demes.
I suggest voting for the red deme's proposal... That way, we would be able to pass Exploration anyway when the time comes, if we remain the majority.
Please don't answer to me- I may have gone too far, and I don't want anything bad to happen.

{{I think that this is the most heretical thing said in this Senate yet :p Good thing no one expect of Senator Raoul heard me, because I have plans for my character :D
Also, I really was convinced that quantity ideas are good.}}
 
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Attalus

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{{Keep in mind that I'm stil tweaking the bonuses each Faction provides because of changes introduced in AoW, as well as custom NI (Roman and Aztec), which sadly is the price to be paid for updating all of this to 1.8. They will change a little, not drastically but will change nonetheless. Also I plan to call a Second Session after chapter 1 or 2, so I doubt that bonuses from whichever Faction wins will be there for very long}}
{{ You aren't helping us at the moment :p
Since we can't obligate you to go to war with X or Y, it means that until the next session you could slowly build the Imperium's forces and wait for until it's done to call us here
All these politics is killing me :D }}

Senator Hadrianos Raoul

*Hadrianos Raoul responds to Senator Salamis in a low voice*
These are only titles Anastasios, it doesn't mean that the Emperor despises us. I think he doesn't want to unbalance even more the Senate we already control by our number.Moreover the title we received is superior in ranks to the two received by the Reds. All that is politics my friend. *His expression changes, becoming more threatening* And I suggest you to refrain from such thoughts, your family carry enough stains ; you don't want to add one.

*He then turns out to the Reds*
As I said I can't devote my faction to your choice without garanties. My senators could then do as they want, for I am not their master. Your thoughts on Quantity is interesting for sure, but you've already heard my arguments
 

ParrotGuy

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[SIZE=+1]Senator Anastasios Salamis VI:[/SIZE]
*Anastasios sits silently. He clearly understands that this talk about the Emperor was far too dangerous*.
The titles are not interesting, as I said... It wouldn't even matter if the blue demes got no titles, as those titles are not important...
But I'm merely concerned about what seems to be a disfavour of... the authorities... towards our faction.
 

viola

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Senator Domenico Colombo:

Thank you, Maximos, for clarifying the rules of the Senate. It is now obvious that the Blues cannot stand on the sidelines of this vote. If they abstain, the Whites, with their anti-military, anti-navy bonuses, will gain power. In addition, if Administrative Ideas pass, the Blues gain nothing, and they are left with the indignity of being the largest faction, but having no voice in near or future policy.

*Domenico raises his voice*

My proposal is the best of both worlds and both interests. By voting in Quantity, the Army is better prepared and we will be able to have more homegrown manpower in our armies, as opposed to filthy mercenaries like the ones the Pisans use. These are the pluses for the Reds, and as they are the proposees, they have a bigger share of the benefit. But the Blues gain too; they gain both the trust and gratitude of another faction leader who is less hostile than the White leader is, and they get larger forcelimits that they can use for galleys or trade ships. This is opposed to the White proposal, which has nothing that helps the Blue cause whatsoever. May I remind you that it is the Whites who are calling the Blues things like 'dirty Pisans', and 'near-heretics' and people 'doomed to hell'. Voting for their proposal would show weakness in the Blues!


*Domenico reminds his faction members that titles will go to those who show the most active support for the faction leader*
Senator Theophilus Rhadenos


*Rhadenos, now quite clearly offended, answers to the Red leader*

The idea that the Whites wishes to weaken the Imperial Army or are, in any way whatsoever "anti-military", is pure and unfounded slander.
The White faction has always supported the army, it has always suggested the expansion of the military and will always support all plans to bring the Imperium to Its rightful place as the Universal Empire ordained by God to rule over Creation.

Those who claim that we stand against the Military deny an evident truth with the only objective of slandering what is the smallest faction in the Senate, and God only can know why they would do something like that as we are no threat to anyone. I urge all Senators to remember that we have not opposed, and are still not opposing, a military reform geared toward quantity but have merely chosen to obey the will of the Emperor for this moment and support an Expanded Administration, I don't see how this can turn us into enemies of the army. I also remind you that a Reformed Administration would indeed help our military and even our trade, wouldn't a superior administration reasonably help us in recruiting and organize an army? Wouldn't a better administration not make trade easier and less bureaucratic cumbersome? Wouldn't a Bureaucratic reform not give the lesser aristocracy of the Imperium, that is us all, a chance to prove their worth and give us a voice within the Imperial Bureaucracy? With all the benefits that working in the Administration would bring...


But instead of discussing the merits of an Administrative reform over a more direct reorganization of the Army many here just want to attack the Whites for things we have never even thought of committing!

In particular, the slander of Domenico Colombo must cease at once, the only thing he has done so far, beyond meekly submitting to the Blues' dominance and suddenly change his decisions on a whim, has been that of humiliating and attacking a faction that consider him an ally and would like to help him. I would have expected such an attitude from the Merchants, who are always striving for "unorthodox" policies, but from the leader of the Eagles these actions are utterly incomprehensible.

Colombo, I will say that only once: cease you slander and start debating like a civilized being, and not like a rabid dog. I know that such a thing can be hard for someone of Italian descend but the rules of the Senate must be respected. I have not attacked you or your faction, the Whites do not consider the Reds their enemies, in spite of all your attempts, and we still wish to discuss civilly if we should go for an Administrative reform or for a Military one. The goals of the Reds and the Whites are complementary, we wish a strong, internal defence against the enemy within and you wish a strong, external offence against the enemy without, I can't understand why the Reds would want to oppose a faction who will gladly support any military actions against the heathens.
Perhaps this has something to do with the fact that Colombo is a Merchant, but I'm sure that this is merely a coincidence.

Furthermore the Senator still have to explain to me his bizarre ramblings about "bonuses" and the use of "Mercenaries" that an Administrative reform would cause, I wonder how.

- Theophilus Rhadenos,
Metropolitan Bishop of Tiberias


[HR][/HR]

((Ok, what are you doing?
You are supposed to roleplay, in-game stuff have nothing to do with roleplay, you cannot claim that the Whites are anti-military because of a bonus that your character cannot know it even exists and especially when the White faction leader is a half-militarist himself, and it is extremely gamey to use in-game bonuses to decide how to roleplay. If you want to play at "let's look at the bonuses and see what strategy is the most logic" then we might as well do away with the entire roleplay thing and just vote as readers.

In other words, looking at stats to decide how to roleplay is bad, it makes no sense in-character and defeats the entire point of roleplaying.))
 

ParrotGuy

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Furthermore the Senator still have to explain to me his bizarre ramblings about "bonuses" and the use of "Mercenaries" that an Administrative reform would cause, I wonder how.
{{Lol}}
[SIZE=+1]Senator Anastasios Salamis VI:[/SIZE]
Senator Theophilus, I would like to ask you something.
Do you consider the blue demes as your enemy? Even if we disagree with your faction's religious fanatism, I at least- and I'm sure that it is true for other members of the blue demes- do not oppose administrative reforms.
I want to know- do you see no value in trade, diplomacy and exploration? Do you see the blue demes as eternal enemies of the white demes?
 

CzokletMuss

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((Ok, what are you doing?
You are supposed to roleplay, in-game stuff have nothing to do with roleplay, you cannot claim that the Whites are anti-military because of a bonus that your character cannot know it even exists and especially when the White faction leader is a half-militarist himself, and it is extremely gamey to use in-game bonuses to decide how to roleplay. If you want to play at "let's look at the bonuses and see what strategy is the most logic" then we might as well do away with the entire roleplay thing and just vote as readers.

In other words, looking at stats to decide how to roleplay is bad, it makes no sense in-character and defeats the entire point of roleplaying.))
{{There is no need to argue. The debate between powergaming/metagaming and "true" role-playing is as old as the idea of a role-play itself. But what's IMHO the most important thing which people tend to forget is that the whole pointof role-play is to have fun. So let's focus on this, shall we? There's nothing wrong in using arguments based on effects the policies or ideas will have in the game - however, I have to agree with viola that if you're going to just say "let's take X idea because we'll have cheaper cores" defeates the purpose of the Senate. You can influence the game but as a Senators, characters played by you in the setting of "Imperium Sine Fine". If you want to talk only about what would be beneficial in game, than in fact we don't need Senate at all and instead can just vote as readers. Remember also that if I wanted good bonuses, I could give Imperium +200% manpower and -100% core creation cost as Roman Traditions - but I didn't. I'm more interested in a good story than just blobbing, you know :) Because of the Senate I don't have complete control over what's going to happen and I'm perfectly fine with this.

To sum it up - yes, you can use arguments that certain ideas or decisions would be beneficial in-game (because I'm going to actually play the game) but please do so in-character. That's why you wanted to become a Senator in the first place, right? :) }}
 

viola

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{{Lol}}
[SIZE=+1]Senator Anastasios Salamis VI:[/SIZE]
Senator Theophilus, I would like to ask you something.
Do you consider the blue demes as your enemy? Even if we disagree with your faction's religious fanatism, I at least- and I'm sure that it is true for other members of the blue demes- do not oppose administrative reforms.
I want to know- do you see no value in trade, diplomacy and exploration? Do you see the blue demes as eternal enemies of the white demes?
[SIZE=+1]Senator Theophilus Rhadenos[/SIZE]

I will gladly answer your questions:
I can see the values of trade, diplomacy and exploration: trade bring prosperity to the land, diplomacy is the art that ensures friendliness among the various parts of the Imperium, and Exploration is an inevitable destiny of the Imperium; what I disagree with is the idea that we should give priority to these things.

Let me explain: our Imperium is besieged on all side by Its enemies, our main concerns right now must be our internal unity, and so Religion and Administration, and our army. Exploration, Trade and especially Diplomacy have little utility for us as of now:


With the vile Ghazis controlling Egypt how can we talk about starting an exploration of India? I believe that the Imperium should eventually come to conquer the distant lands of Cathay and India, as it is God that order it, but trying to do so right now would be reckless, first we must address our immediate threats.

Trade is good in theory, but with all the enemies that surround us and the need to keep our society together we unfortunately do not have the time to develop our Trade as it would deserve. Perhaps, in a distant future where the Imperium is more dominant than ever and our enemies are shattered to the winds, then we will gladly concentrate on internal prosperity, but until then I feel that we should give priority to other things.

Diplomacy too is a good idea in theory, but with whom? This is an idea I think the Imperium should ignore entirely, all Christian realms have fallen and we stand as a lone bastion of righteousness. The Xenoi are animals, the Barbarians cannot be trusted to keep their words and everyone else is too weak for us to care, so with whom should we negotiate? Let us instead concentrate on more pressing matters.


That said, I would like to not have enemies, but the Blues in the past have been discussing policies who in my opinion were suicidal. Trade while the Ghazis are at the doors of Jerusalem? Exploration when our very borders are insecure and under constant attack? Those things will have their time but their time is just not now. I had to denounce the madness of the Blues, but if they now can understand that the reality of the Imperium do not currently allow for the realization of their ideas then I will gladly reconsider my opinion of their faction and perhaps even open to collaboration.

Let no one say anymore that the Whites are unreasonable. I hope that this will address your doubts.

- Theophilus Rhadenos,
Metropolitan Bishop of Tiberias
 

ParrotGuy

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[SIZE=+1]Senator Anastasios Salamis VI:[/SIZE]
Ah, but you can clearly see that we in the blue demes aren't trying to push for exploration immediatly- in fact, our faction leader has clearly said, if I remember correctly, that we should wait for the reconquest of Aegyptus before starting the exploration. So it seems like the only thing you're basing your hate for the blue demes on are stereotypes- stereotypes that say that we're unreasonable greedy merchants. However, I may have mistaken the white demes for blind religious fanatics. Indeed, only some of you are that... But still a lot of you, it seems.
But exploration must come second or, at most, third. The Xenoi and the Sineans- and god knows who else- have surely been exploring for a long time.
We must not wait too long- or when we will finaly send our ships to distant shores, the valiant explorers will find only death and ruin caused by the Xenoi.
And thus, I would like to declare that if exploration won't be chosen by this Senate as the second or third reform that the Imperium does, I will start voting for it, and only it, until it is chosen- regardless of deals made by the blue demes faction leader.

{{When we finaly begin exploring, you will see why my character's pushing for it so hardly- mostly from RP point of view ;)}}
 

luciusmalfoy012

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Senator Theophilus Rhadenos


*Rhadenos, now quite clearly offended, answers to the Red leader*

The idea that the Whites wishes to weaken the Imperial Army or are, in any way whatsoever "anti-military", is pure and unfounded slander.
The White faction has always supported the army, it has always suggested the expansion of the military and will always support all plans to bring the Imperium to Its rightful place as the Universal Empire ordained by God to rule over Creation.

Those who claim that we stand against the Military deny an evident truth with the only objective of slandering what is the smallest faction in the Senate, and God only can know why they would do something like that as we are no threat to anyone. I urge all Senators to remember that we have not opposed, and are still not opposing, a military reform geared toward quantity but have merely chosen to obey the will of the Emperor for this moment and support an Expanded Administration, I don't see how this can turn us into enemies of the army. I also remind you that a Reformed Administration would indeed help our military and even our trade, wouldn't a superior administration reasonably help us in recruiting and organize an army? Wouldn't a better administration not make trade easier and less bureaucratic cumbersome? Wouldn't a Bureaucratic reform not give the lesser aristocracy of the Imperium, that is us all, a chance to prove their worth and give us a voice within the Imperial Bureaucracy? With all the benefits that working in the Administration would bring...


But instead of discussing the merits of an Administrative reform over a more direct reorganization of the Army many here just want to attack the Whites for things we have never even thought of committing!

In particular, the slander of Domenico Colombo must cease at once, the only thing he has done so far, beyond meekly submitting to the Blues' dominance and suddenly change his decisions on a whim, has been that of humiliating and attacking a faction that consider him an ally and would like to help him. I would have expected such an attitude from the Merchants, who are always striving for "unorthodox" policies, but from the leader of the Eagles these actions are utterly incomprehensible.

Colombo, I will say that only once: cease you slander and start debating like a civilized being, and not like a rabid dog. I know that such a thing can be hard for someone of Italian descend but the rules of the Senate must be respected. I have not attacked you or your faction, the Whites do not consider the Reds their enemies, in spite of all your attempts, and we still wish to discuss civilly if we should go for an Administrative reform or for a Military one. The goals of the Reds and the Whites are complementary, we wish a strong, internal defence against the enemy within and you wish a strong, external offence against the enemy without, I can't understand why the Reds would want to oppose a faction who will gladly support any military actions against the heathens.
Perhaps this has something to do with the fact that Colombo is a Merchant, but I'm sure that this is merely a coincidence.

Furthermore the Senator still have to explain to me his bizarre ramblings about "bonuses" and the use of "Mercenaries" that an Administrative reform would cause, I wonder how.

- Theophilus Rhadenos,
Metropolitan Bishop of Tiberias


[HR][/HR]

((Ok, what are you doing?
You are supposed to roleplay, in-game stuff have nothing to do with roleplay, you cannot claim that the Whites are anti-military because of a bonus that your character cannot know it even exists and especially when the White faction leader is a half-militarist himself, and it is extremely gamey to use in-game bonuses to decide how to roleplay. If you want to play at "let's look at the bonuses and see what strategy is the most logic" then we might as well do away with the entire roleplay thing and just vote as readers.

In other words, looking at stats to decide how to roleplay is bad, it makes no sense in-character and defeats the entire point of roleplaying.))
{Calm down there, m8. I want to have fun just as much as you, it's more that I would like the Imperium to still exist in the future.}

{In your tirade against me, you do bring up some good points, but they are points that aren't really about me. It's more of a problem with the un-fluid faction system and how the Senate works. The current factions, all of them, are jingoist, warmongers. Everyone is praising the upcoming war, and no one is talking about big missionary things or exploration. Yet, if anyone but the Reds get in power, the military suffers enormously compared to how it would be with the Reds in power. It's not like if the Whites win, the entire focus of the Imperium turns away from military, but that's how the factions are working.}

{In addition, I am RPing, and I have given in character reasons for turning to Quantity. If the Whites hadn't decided to pick a fight with me AFTER I had previously supported their idea group, I would have had no call for changing positions. It also makes sense that a Senator from all the way in Alexandria would need some time to sort out how the Imperial Administration works. On top of this, you accuse me of not RPing, but I am supporting something that is for the benefit of my faction!

Personally, I think the most out of character thing is the number of Blues who are still supporting Administrative, even after the Whites have been shitting on them for days. Especially considering that the Whites are so small, and that Administrative has nothing that they should be interested in. The rebellious Reds make more sense, I am somewhat of an outsider, and they are more inclined to agree with the Whites.

That's why my character's health is suffering, he's having to deal with all these contradictions, and he can't handle it!}


{I'd also like to remind you guys that my son (and sucessor) is of a somewhat.... different political persuasion than Domenico. I think you can guess what policies Christopher Columbus would support. We wouldn't want a certain faction getting even more power, now would we?}

{At any rate, this vote will be interesting. A lot of the Blues haven't voiced their support one way or another, it's still up in the air I think. Unless the Blues attempt to do Exploration at the last min.}
 

viola

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[SIZE=+1]Senator Anastasios Salamis VI:[/SIZE]
Ah, but you can clearly see that we in the blue demes aren't trying to push for exploration immediatly- in fact, our faction leader has clearly said, if I remember correctly, that we should wait for the reconquest of Aegyptus before starting the exploration. So it seems like the only thing you're basing your hate for the blue demes on are stereotypes- stereotypes that say that we're unreasonable greedy merchants. However, I may have mistaken the white demes for blind religious fanatics. Indeed, only some of you are that... But still a lot of you, it seems.
But exploration must come second or, at most, third. The Xenoi and the Sineans- and god knows who else- have surely been exploring for a long time.
We must not wait too long- or when we will finaly send our ships to distant shores, the valiant explorers will find only death and ruin caused by the Xenoi.
And thus, I would like to declare that if exploration won't be chosen by this Senate as the second or third reform that the Imperium does, I will start voting for it, and only it, until it is chosen- regardless of deals made by the blue demes faction leader.

{{When we finaly begin exploring, you will see why my character's pushing for it so hardly- mostly from RP point of view ;)}}
[SIZE=+1]Senator Theophilus Rhadenos[/SIZE]

As I said, the Blues were doing these things in the past, I know that since then they have moved on more reasonable positions.
It is a change that I welcome and hope that it may remain. And I assure you that I'm not blind the the opportunities that Exploration might bring, I just believe that first we should build a strong Society based on unshakable Faith, military fervor and good Administration, then I will gladly, and enthusiastically even, bring the Light of the Imperium to the heathens of the Eastern Lands.

- Theophilus Rhadenos,
Metropolitan Bishop of Tiberias

[HR][/HR]

{{There is no need to argue. The debate between powergaming/metagaming and "true" role-playing is as old as the idea of a role-play itself. But what's IMHO the most important thing which people tend to forget is that the whole pointof role-play is to have fun. So let's focus on this, shall we? There's nothing wrong in using arguments based on effects the policies or ideas will have in the game - however, I have to agree with viola that if you're going to just say "let's take X idea because we'll have cheaper cores" defeates the purpose of the Senate. You can influence the game but as a Senators, characters played by you in the setting of "Imperium Sine Fine". If you want to talk only about what would be beneficial in game, than in fact we don't need Senate at all and instead can just vote as readers. Remember also that if I wanted good bonuses, I could give Imperium +200% manpower and -100% core creation cost as Roman Traditions - but I didn't. I'm more interested in a good story than just blobbing, you know :) Because of the Senate I don't have complete control over what's going to happen and I'm perfectly fine with this.

To sum it up - yes, you can use arguments that certain ideas or decisions would be beneficial in-game (because I'm going to actually play the game) but please do so in-character. That's why you wanted to become a Senator in the first place, right? :) }}
((I agree, choosing a more favorable option when the opportunity presents itself is fine, but making it a rule at the cost of the narrative is quite beyond the pale.
I have no intention to argue trough. Just wanted to state an opinion.))
 

Attalus

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{Calm down there, m8. I want to have fun just as much as you, it's more that I would like the Imperium to still exist in the future.}

{In your tirade against me, you do bring up some good points, but they are points that aren't really about me. It's more of a problem with the un-fluid faction system and how the Senate works. The current factions, all of them, are jingoist, warmongers. Everyone is praising the upcoming war, and no one is talking about big missionary things or exploration. Yet, if anyone but the Reds get in power, the military suffers enormously compared to how it would be with the Reds in power. It's not like if the Whites win, the entire focus of the Imperium turns away from military, but that's how the factions are working.}

{In addition, I am RPing, and I have given in character reasons for turning to Quantity. If the Whites hadn't decided to pick a fight with me AFTER I had previously supported their idea group, I would have had no call for changing positions. It also makes sense that a Senator from all the way in Alexandria would need some time to sort out how the Imperial Administration works. On top of this, you accuse me of not RPing, but I am supporting something that is for the benefit of my faction!

Personally, I think the most out of character thing is the number of Blues who are still supporting Administrative, even after the Whites have been shitting on them for days. Especially considering that the Whites are so small, and that Administrative has nothing that they should be interested in. The rebellious Reds make more sense, I am somewhat of an outsider, and they are more inclined to agree with the Whites.

That's why my character's health is suffering, he's having to deal with all these contradictions, and he can't handle it!}


{I'd also like to remind you guys that my son (and sucessor) is of a somewhat.... different political persuasion than Domenico. I think you can guess what policies Christopher Columbus would support. We wouldn't want a certain faction getting even more power, now would we?}

{At any rate, this vote will be interesting. A lot of the Blues haven't voiced their support one way or another, it's still up in the air I think. Unless the Blues attempt to do Exploration at the last min.}
{{ Yeah most of my faction has not spoken yet and I don't want to go the way "I am your leader, obey me !" :p
So all is not fixed yet }}
 

drucchi

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Senator Frederik V Hvide
Honorable Senator Theophilus, with the Timurids at our doorstep would you not agree that it would be unwise to pull away resources from our millitary? Your suggested administrative reforms, while they would likely be highly effective in increasing efficiency in the cogs that keep the empire running and would be highly desirable in peacetime, i fear that we are not headed for an extended era of peace. For now i fear that the military needs all the resources the empire can muster, Army and Navy.
 
Last edited:

MaskedPersonage

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[SIZE=+1]Senator Anastasios Salamis VI:[/SIZE]
Ah, but you can clearly see that we in the blue demes aren't trying to push for exploration immediatly- in fact, our faction leader has clearly said, if I remember correctly, that we should wait for the reconquest of Aegyptus before starting the exploration. So it seems like the only thing you're basing your hate for the blue demes on are stereotypes- stereotypes that say that we're unreasonable greedy merchants. However, I may have mistaken the white demes for blind religious fanatics. Indeed, only some of you are that... But still a lot of you, it seems.
But exploration must come second or, at most, third. The Xenoi and the Sineans- and god knows who else- have surely been exploring for a long time.
We must not wait too long- or when we will finaly send our ships to distant shores, the valiant explorers will find only death and ruin caused by the Xenoi.
And thus, I would like to declare that if exploration won't be chosen by this Senate as the second or third reform that the Imperium does, I will start voting for it, and only it, until it is chosen- regardless of deals made by the blue demes faction leader.

{{When we finaly begin exploring, you will see why my character's pushing for it so hardly- mostly from RP point of view ;)}}
[size=+1]Senator Ioannes Kantakouzenos:[/size]

The reconquest of Aegyptus is our primary concern, yes, but it is not the only matter to worry about. With the Horde and Xenoi pressing so hard on our borders, we cannot do anything to colonize and explore new lands until we have secured a more stable base domestically and militarily. Who can say that the Horde or the Xenoi have not already reached lands further east or west of Europe, tainting them with their unholiness? With the enemies of the Imperium being so strong at the moment, the focus of the Imperial government should be on both rectifying that situation by reforming the Imperial Administration and the Tagmata. Personally, I still wholeheartedly support the Emperor's proposal of reforming the Administration first, but that does not at all mean I am opposed to the other proposals said by Senator Columbo and Senator Moustakas, who have indicated the need for new recruiting practices in the Imperial Tagmata, or the proposals put forth by the Blue Demes. I just believe that now isn't the time to think about Exploration and Trade, and have a strong suspicion that the reasons the Senators of the Blue Demes gathered here today support it so strongly is not out of love for the Imperium but for love of gold. That is a very human temptation, yet one that should be avoided at all costs when we are here to do what is best for the Imperium. I will support Senator Rhadenos in this, and I also will give a modicum of moral support to the Eagles, who at the very least mutually understand the need for faith and military reform. If the Administrative reforms do not pass, I will not be bothered, so long as the new recruiting methods are passed in their place.

{{Ioannes is only acting civil because either way this is a victory for him. He wants quantity and administrative ideas, and since those are the only ideas currently on the ballot he's more or less content. Though I imagine he will push for Religous ideas at some point in the future.}}
 

CzokletMuss

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{In your tirade against me, you do bring up some good points, but they are points that aren't really about me. It's more of a problem with the un-fluid faction system and how the Senate works. The current factions, all of them, are jingoist, warmongers. Everyone is praising the upcoming war, and no one is talking about big missionary things or exploration. Yet, if anyone but the Reds get in power, the military suffers enormously compared to how it would be with the Reds in power. It's not like if the Whites win, the entire focus of the Imperium turns away from military, but that's how the factions are working.}
{{As I said, I'm tweaking the Faction modifiers - I consider changing the whole "modifiers-have-to-balance-out" approach into something simpler or even just make it so that every Faction just gives bonuses with no negative modifiers. If you have some ideas please share them with me - the Factions were made for the Senators, no the other way around.

But you shouldn't really concentrate on which Faction is going to be in charge for the next, what, 10-15 years at most? The first idea group is immensely important because Imperium will be using it for the next 400 years. Whatever bonuses it'll provide, I'm going to use them during basically the whole campaign. So it's much more important to choose first idea group wisely than to base this decision on Faction modifiers (which are going to change one way or another - AoW introduced local autonomy, for instance, so I have to include this somehow).

Just my 5 cents :) }}