This Is Madness 2 - Imperium Sine Fine (Interactive Mega Campaign)

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zenphoenix

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Zhonggou is just Mandarin for China.
To clarify, it's the pinyin romanization of the Mandarin pronunciation of 中國. And technically it means "Middle Kingdom" and not China, but this is getting off topic again so I'll stop here.
To get back on topic, this post made me think about China considering itself the Middle Kingdom. Will there be events/missions/decisions/modifiers to reflect the Ming tributary system among other things? Unique disasters?
 
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Mach Twelve

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zenphoenix

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Which is a nice touch by the Emperor.
Actually, for maximum historical accuracy Ming's name should be "Da Ming," or Great Ming, as the imperial Chinese didn't call their nation "China," at least in this time period.
 

Mach Twelve

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Actually, for maximum historical accuracy Ming's name should be "Da Ming," or Great Ming, as the imperial Chinese didn't call their nation "China," at least in this time period.

Isn't China a result of the romanization of the Qing dynasty (called the Ching I believe, in the old system) and China just emerged from that?
 

zenphoenix

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Isn't China a result of the romanization of the Qing dynasty (called the Ching I believe, in the old system) and China just emerged from that?
I'm not sure about that. I heard it came from the Sanskrit word "Sina" or something, but then again we're headed off topic again.
 
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GulMacet

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Actually, Middle Kingdom is inaccurate too - there is no plural in Chinese, and the 国 in 中国 originally referred to the many states that made up the cradle of Chinese culture and civilization, the Central Plains of the Yellow River. The original meaning is better expressed by Central Nations, in my opinion. But yes, back to topic. :)
 
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ThetrueColt

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An alternative would be, that China is in the same state as the empire. If you take a look at a map, the roman empire too looks like an invincible monster, but we know that isn't the case. So maybe China is under the same pressure from the Horde as we are, in addition to enemies we might not know of yet. Japan might be stronger than it seems. Maybe there is a sunrise-invasion in Siberia. Or a strong Malaya!

This made me think that Japan could be Zhongguo's Pisa. For some reason.
 

McGrey

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I have to say, the fact that we haven't reached much in border growth in the EU IV part is actually quite appealing. Normally if you have reached the size the roman empire is now, every challenge has been lost to the game. Often even much earlier. But the way the thing go, the AAR is still really exciting.

That being said, I wonder what could be done from a gameplay perspective to achieve a breakthrough that brings the empire in a much better position. I myself would probably already given up at this point, but maybe someone of you guys have and idea?
 

qer

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I have to say, the fact that we haven't reached much in border growth in the EU IV part is actually quite appealing. Normally if you have reached the size the roman empire is now, every challenge has been lost to the game. Often even much earlier. But the way the thing go, the AAR is still really exciting.

That being said, I wonder what could be done from a gameplay perspective to achieve a breakthrough that brings the empire in a much better position. I myself would probably already given up at this point, but maybe someone of you guys have and idea?
I think that the timurids and specifically the Horde could be defeated without too much problem. Once the Strom is over, if the empire manages to survive and recover economically, it would probably beat then without too much problem. Also it is very probable that at latter dates, they would be even weaker , specially in technology. Combine with early admin efficiently, I see very probable a decisive victory could be archive by the 17th century. The xenoi are another story and frankly, with all the crazy bonus they get, is going to be difficult to break then. In Europe they can be defeated, but I think that an attack against the mainland would need to wait until Vic or Hoi
 

Ponce_The_Great

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I think that the timurids and specifically the Horde could be defeated without too much problem. Once the Strom is over, if the empire manages to survive and recover economically, it would probably beat then without too much problem. Also it is very probable that at latter dates, they would be even weaker , specially in technology. Combine with early admin efficiently, I see very probable a decisive victory could be archive by the 17th century. The xenoi are another story and frankly, with all the crazy bonus they get, is going to be difficult to break then. In Europe they can be defeated, but I think that an attack against the mainland would need to wait until Vic or Hoi


Problem is that every time we attack the Horde or the Timurids we seem to end up with another conflict with Pisa or the Aztecs, so we at best manage to weaken them, get a truce and maybe reclaim some territory. Historically they've recovered from the defeats we deal them and when the Imperium is weak they hit back hard. The Tiumrids did quite a bit of damage in the last war, and the Horde has the advantage that no one outside of the Taurinus family has any real desire to fight the Horde.

of course who knows, if the Imperium begins a recovery maybe they'll be able to rally support for a war against the Horde to avenge the armies of Mongol rebels who are rampaging across provinces
 

qer

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Problem is that every time we attack the Horde or the Timurids we seem to end up with another conflict with Pisa or the Aztecs, so we at best manage to weaken them, get a truce and maybe reclaim some territory. Historically they've recovered from the defeats we deal them and when the Imperium is weak they hit back hard. The Tiumrids did quite a bit of damage in the last war, and the Horde has the advantage that no one outside of the Taurinus family has any real desire to fight the Horde.

of course who knows, if the Imperium begins a recovery maybe they'll be able to rally support for a war against the Horde to avenge the armies of Mongol rebels who are rampaging across provinces
Actually both powers are weaker than what they seem. Timurids two great victories (the second jihad for Egypt and the last war) came when the empire was at a very weak position. Of course their warriors got enough bonus to be consider, but if they are just alone against Rome they wouldn't stand a chance. The horde is even weaker: since 1444 their only victory against Rome was done by rebels(edited: also the one of the prorlogue, but we didn't get info about it and it is probable that the empire surrender soon to make things more interesting). They haven't win yet a war against Timur and Lithuania and Poland also put pressure on then. Of course the empire need to recover and improve their finances, but if there is one power that can be dispatched without too much problem, I would said that it is the horde (Btw, we didn't get any info about what was the result of the Poland and Lithuania attacks after the Roman retreat)
 
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zenphoenix

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Actually both powers are weaker than what they seem. Timurids two great victories (the second jihad for Egypt and the last war) came when the empire was at a very weak position. Of course their warriors got enough bonus to be consider, but if they are just alone against Rome they wouldn't stand a chance. The horde is even weaker: since 1444 their only victory against Rome was done by rebels(edited: also the one of the prorlogue, but we didn't get info about it and it is probable that the empire surrender soon to make things more interesting). They haven't win yet a war against Timur and Lithuania and Poland also put pressure on then. Of course the empire need to recover and improve their finances, but if there is one power that can be dispatched without too much problem, I would said that it is the horde (Btw, we didn't get any info about what was the result of the Poland and Lithuania attacks after the Roman retreat)
Also the Horde shares a border with Ming, which is most likely hostile to it.
 

Ponce_The_Great

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Also the Horde shares a border with Ming, which is most likely hostile to it.

And that will be the cue for the Ming to annex the Horde and make a nice cozy border with the imperium.
 

zenphoenix

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And that will be the cue for the Ming to annex the Horde and make a nice cozy border with the imperium.
A westernized colonizing mega-Ming...

*shudder*
 

Ponce_The_Great

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A westernized colonizing mega-Ming...

*shudder*

What is the mechanic for westernizing in this world? Westernize off the Aztecs or off of Caledonia or the Secret Mali Kingdom. Which reminds me. the Imperium has just gone through its biggest crisis in centuries, North Africa has been a war torn battle ground between Aztec and Roman. And Mali is probably sitting quietly in unknown lands going for their African Power achievement.
 

Teutonic King

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What is the mechanic for westernizing in this world? Westernize off the Aztecs or off of Caledonia or the Secret Mali Kingdom. Which reminds me. the Imperium has just gone through its biggest crisis in centuries, North Africa has been a war torn battle ground between Aztec and Roman. And Mali is probably sitting quietly in unknown lands going for their African Power achievement.
In all likelihood the African nations are going to suddenly rise up and go on a conquest spree of the European world before turning their sites on the Aztec Empire.
 

zenphoenix

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In all likelihood the African nations are going to suddenly rise up and go on a conquest spree of the European world before turning their sites on the Aztec Empire.
Who knows? Maybe Mali already has colonies in South America...and are fighting the Aztecs/Incas already.
 

Baldor Arbanus

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In all likelihood the African nations are going to suddenly rise up and go on a conquest spree of the European world before turning their sites on the Aztec Empire.
Nah. The Aztek will turn their sights on SSA once they run out of Europeans and Morrocans to sacrifice and... Well, multiply the Trans-Alantic Trade route X20 with a good dose of post-colonial tribal warfare thrown into the mix.

Yeah, ain't nothing going to be there but Aztek pyramids made of skulls by the time the Demes finish bickering.
 

Deephouse

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Can you imagine this in Hoi3(if we make it that far.)
Europe would be devastated by the sheer amount of mechanized combat.