This Is Madness 2 - Imperium Sine Fine (Interactive Mega Campaign)

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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Ponce_The_Great

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Serpent

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Senator Marius Serapis


Decius Pylaeus (Faction Speaker of the White Demes)

So this is what you wanted...after all those years. I've always wondered why I wasn't invited to such businesses of my friends among the white demes, especially when you declined that a new library could be built upon monastery grounds. I have done some research on the topic, though. Listen, I ... am not a resentful man. My contacts say that your family investment has yielded quite a few returns over the years. As far as the commitment of Houses Melissenos and Ouranos is concerned, they have invested relatively modest amounts compared to your house.

A joint business to the profit of all the long-time whites - it is something I can support. What's more, I'll probably invest quite a bit in it, if you do not mind. Probably half of what your house has given would be alright? I don't want to question your status as the head of the monastery, but since I've got the means, I'd like to show that I am serious about a commitment to the cause.

As for your other question...I'm not used to being called by my new titles yet. If we are among us whites, I'd like to call you friends and be honoured to be called one by all of you, as it always has been. If the situation is more officially demanding, I am sure that you know which one would be appropriate to use. Just remember that a title does not make a man, it is the man that should make up the true worth of the title.

Marius smiles, genuinely pleased with the answer. "I will gladly call you my friend, Decius, and happily accept any investment you wish to make. Our clercs can work out the details, I'm sure." His face turns serious, "Now, I would understand if you felt resentful for being excluded, but there was never any offense intended. I've always felt closely aligned with you politically and you have managed your office of Speaker admirably. Any uncertainty I may have felt was rooted in concerns I've now found unfounded. I consider your House a long term ally, and in these troubled times we need our allies to be as strong as possible."

--

{{
Monastery of Divine Light investors

House Serapis from 1540 (Founder and Controller. Major investor (100%of House Serapis' productive assets))
Iskandar Ouranos from 1560 (?% of House Ouranos assets)
Lazaros II. Melissenos from 1560 (10% of House Melissenos assets)
Decius Pylaeus from 1566 (50%? of House Pylaeus assets)

I have only a very general idea ooc of what the Monasterys assets are actually worth and the exact share of all the partner Houses. I got Czokletmuss' permission to consider House Serapis the richest House in the Senate in 1560, but that's the only substantial fact I've got. Likely it will amount to little in the greater scheme of the aar, but it's a fun bit of extra role-playing. :)

--
I don't really remember why I didn't extend the offer to Decius at the last faction meeting, perhaps we simply ran out of time.
}}
 
Last edited:

McGrey

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{{
Monastery of Divine Light investors

House Serapis from 1540 (Founder and Controller. Major investor (100%of House Serapis' productive assets))
Iskandar Ouranos from 1560 (?% of House Ouranos assets)
Lazaros II. Melissenos from 1560 (?% of House Melissenos assets)
Decius Pylaeus from 1566 (50%? of House Pylaeus assets)

I have only a very general idea ooc of what the Monasterys assets are actually worth and the exact share of all the partner Houses. I got Czokletmuss' permission to consider House Serapis the richest House in the Senate in 1560, but that's the only substantial fact I've got. Likely it will amount to little in the greater scheme of the aar, but it's a fun bit of extra role-playing. :)

--
I don't really remember why I didn't extend the offer to Decius at the last faction meeting, perhaps we simply ran out of time.
}}
{{The Melissenos have put no more than 10% of their assets in the project. Most is tied up in their own banking house and the rest is spread as wide as possible to reduce loses if one project fails.}}
 

ThetrueColt

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Decius Pylaeus


Senator Marius Serapis

Marius smiles, genuinely pleased with the answer. "I will gladly call you my friend, Decius, and happily accept any investment you wish to make. Our clercs can work out the details, I'm sure." His face turns serious, "Now, I would understand if you felt resentful for being excluded, but there was never any offense intended. I've always felt closely aligned with you politically and you have managed your office of Speaker admirably. Any uncertainty I may have felt was rooted in concerns I've now found unfounded. I consider your House a long term ally, and in these troubled times we need our allies to be as strong as possible."

*Decius smiles as he listens to Marius' words*

And no offense was taken on my part, friend.
I am glad that even after all those years I have not lost my way or the support of my fellow friends in the demes. It delights me to hear that the new generation of whites holds on to the values my generation has tried to establish so hard. I must say that it is quite unusual to be among the elders of our esteemed group, with just Senator Raoul surpassing my age.


As far as the business is concerned: I'll welcome you or any of your House to my estate in Konstantinoupolis to settle upon the details of the contract. Now, is there anything else? I feel thatwe shouldn't let our comrades wait for too long.

{{
{{
Monastery of Divine Light investors

House Serapis from 1540 (Founder and Controller. Major investor (100%of House Serapis' productive assets))
Iskandar Ouranos from 1560 (?% of House Ouranos assets)
Lazaros II. Melissenos from 1560 (?% of House Melissenos assets)
Decius Pylaeus from 1566 (50%? of House Pylaeus assets)

I have only a very general idea ooc of what the Monasterys assets are actually worth and the exact share of all the partner Houses. I got Czokletmuss' permission to consider House Serapis the richest House in the Senate in 1560, but that's the only substantial fact I've got. Likely it will amount to little in the greater scheme of the aar, but it's a fun bit of extra role-playing. :)

--
I don't really remember why I didn't extend the offer to Decius at the last faction meeting, perhaps we simply ran out of time.
}}

Your character couldn't talk to Decius because he was kind of strangling di Capponi because of a certain box. If there was another chance afterwards, you might have forgotten about it.

I'd represent the shareholders of the monastery in a different way: We know that house Serapis pushed all its assets into the venture. But we don't know about the other houses, hence your question marks. Instead of trying to measure a total percentage of assets that went into the monastery, you should look at it more like an investment sum. If you want to create an overview of the ownership situation, I'd prefare a pie chart or something similar.

If I remember correctly, Melissenos and Ouranos participated, but they held back quite a bit. So maybe a fifth to a fourth of your investment would apply? @Blogman66 @McGrey can surely clearly this up. Edit: As McGrey said, 10% in comparison to 100% of House Serapis.

If we take a fifth of the initial investment as a basis, it would look like this:
divinelight4jk8g.png

Edit: Damn you, McGrey. Revising the graphic as I type this...and it's done.
}}
 

ThetrueColt

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{{Another thing I'd like to ponder: Does House Serapis reinvest its gains straight back into the monastery? For the rest of us, this is more of a one time deal that brings in some spare cash, I imagine. At least for me it would be for the time being. But if the founding House reinvests its gains, your share would obviously rise. Decius would only invest half of your initial investment, so my share would go down along with that of Melissenos and Ouranos. But I'll need more numbers for that. @Serpent ? :D }}
 

CzokletMuss

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{{My reasoning was that as a member of the church, I, in that regard, transcended boundaries. Yes I am a Senator of the Imperium, but I am also a Chorbishop of the Holy Orthodox Church. Representing Pisa would be through my position as a Chorbishop, not as a Senator. Much like how in the middle ages vassalage was an issue, with lords such as the Duke of Toulouse being vassals of both France and Aragon in different areas of their realm. Its sort of like doublethink, but somehow it worked. Another good example is when the Plantagenets came to power in England, they reaffirmed the lordship of the King of France over his holdings in dejure France, even though they were of the same rank. My point is not that I am loyal to both Pisa and Rome, but that it is not unheard of for such seeming conflicting interests to exist and still work out. Say if we were at war with Pisa at the time, that would be a different story, but as it stands, does not the Church exist to serve all its faithful, including those suffering under the Pisan worship of Mammon? What more, am ability to give Pisa some representation can give a unique glimpse of Orthodoxy in Pisa not normally portrayed. That is of course, if the Serene Doge would allow a Romanoi and former resident to represent the Republic. }}}
{{ You are not a bishop - your character is merely a chorepiscopus:
Chorepiscopi are first mentioned by Eusebius as existing in the second century.[1] In the beginning, it seems the chorepiscopi exercised regular episcopal functions in their rural districts, but from the late third century they were subject to city or metropolitan bishops. The Synod of Ancyra (314) specifically forbade them to ordain deacons or priests. The Council of Sardica (343) decreed that no chorepiscopus should be consecrated where a priest would suffice,[1] and so the chorepiscopi in the Byzantine Church gradually disappeared.[2]

The first mentions of chorepiscopi in the Western church are from the 5th or 6th century, where they were found mainly in Germany (especially Bavaria) and the Frankish lands.[3] In the Western Church they were treated as an auxiliary bishop and operated like archdeacons or vicar general.[4] They gradually disappeared as an office by the 12th century in the West[4] and were replaced by archdeacons to administer subdivisions of a diocese.
You do not have the authority to represent any of the Pisan dioceses. Furthermore, even guests from other countries (Aragon, Poland etc.) do not have a right to vote - they only observe the Synodos. This is a council of the Church, not an ecumenical council (that is council in which all bishops may attend). This is because the subject of the council is an internal (so far) issue of the Imperium.

Your character is, however, a chorbishop. Thus I may allow your character to be present during the questioning of Sophia - you will not be allowed to ask her any questions though.
As a reminder, no senators were invited to the Council and thus may not be present in basilica during the Council proceedings.
{{
All demes speakers received a letter. I guess "tomorrow" IC will be once the faction meetings are over...

I've got a question for @CzokletMuss : The title of spatharios is not inheritable, I guess, just like the long title all of the whites received. What about that of stratelates, though? Is it inheritable? I'm asking because you said it does also exempt my heirs from military service.}}
Title is not hereditary but the exemption is. Although I see no reason why any good Roman would not want to die fight for his Emperor :p }}
 
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Serpent

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Marius Serapis

"I would gladly meet you again in Constantinople before I return to Jerusalem. But for now, as you said, we should not let our comrades waiting. We still have rather urgent matters to consider with the Synod and the machinations of the Dynatoi, though we do not yet know what our role will be." He returns to his seat at the table, beginning to regret that he didn't bring any food or drink.

Decius Pylaeus




{{
...
If we take a fifth of the initial investment as a basis, it would look like this:
divinelight4jk8g.png
}}


{{Another thing I'd like to ponder: Does House Serapis reinvest its gains straight back into the monastery? For the rest of us, this is more of a one time deal that brings in some spare cash, I imagine. At least for me it would be for the time being. But if the founding House reinvests its gains, your share would obviously rise. Decius would only invest half of your initial investment, so my share would go down along with that of Melissenos and Ouranos. But I'll need more numbers for that. @Serpent ? :D }}

{{Serapis have really put all our eggs in this basket, and reinvested almost all of our profits since 1540, so our share could be bigger. On the other hand Pylaeus is a very rich House and could very well have the ability to get a 27,78% share, and have wealth to spare, so I have no problem with that. If Melissenos 5.56% represent 10% of their total assets that's probably a bit high compared to Serapis 55.56% representing 100% of our assets, and we still don't know what Ouranos' have invested. On the other hand, we can never get an exact proportion on of shares without a mathematical simulation of our growth, and that's probably taking the matter too far ;).

edit

Yes, if Pylaeus' investment represents half of Serapis original investment your percentage should be lower, provided the Monastery has had any profits in the last 26 years.}}
 
Last edited:

CzokletMuss

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{{ BTW if you guys have nothing to talk about apart from investments we can end the meeting IMHO }}
 

ThetrueColt

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Decius Pylaeus (Faction Speaker of the White Demes)

*Decius heads back to the table with Serapis*

So, did the rest of you make up their mind as well? I believe we left off when we agreed that we did not have enough information on the synodos yet and that we will attend the banquet to acquire more intel about the dynatos and their politics.

Also, don't be afraid, but there are 100 guards together with me in the city. Two dozen from my own bodyguard, the rest equally coming from the different house estates in Larissa, Konstantinoupolis and formerly Roma. The number seems quite high at first, but since my family lost all posessions in the Eternal City to the hoi polloi, I cannot trust the Italians any longer. It is a real shame though. Not being able to entertain a seat in the City where my family hast its ancient roots, just like the Imperium itself. It is a bit as if the Italians would have forgotten their allegiance to and heritage as Romans, don't you think?

{{
Title is not hereditary but the exemption is. Although I see no reason why any good Roman would not want to die fight for his Emperor :p

Ah, that clears it up. Thanks. Since the exemption just affects part of my House it makes for another bit of interesting RP, that's why I asked. Also think about the competitive edge it would a person that does not need to spend time at the frontier in the army but could instead go straight into the Pandidakterion/Administration/Sacred Palace/Church.

I take it that the Mandator took the answer and left?

{{Serapis have really put all our eggs in this basket, and reinvested almost all of our profits since 1540, so our share could be bigger. On the other hand Pylaeus is a very rich House and could very well have the ability to get a 27,78% share, and have wealth to spare, so I have no problem with that. If Melissenos 5.56% represent 10% of their total assets that's probably a bit high compared to Serapis 55.56% representing 100% of our assets, and we still don't know what Ouranos' have invested. On the other hand, we can never get an exact proportion on of shares without a mathematical simulation of our growth, and that's probably taking the matter too far ;).}}

We can just take it that the other Houses have reinvested just enough to keep their shares stable and that your shares are going to rise from now on, if you don't want to give me some numbers to play around with :D

If we don't want to, I'd just split it off like this:
Serapis: 65%
Ouranos: 7%
Melissenos: 3%
Pylaeus: 25%

What sounds more reasonable to you (considering what @McGrey said)?
}}
 

luciusmalfoy012

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{{The Whites' controllers clearly have a much different approach to "fun" from the rest of us. Apparently pie charts, stock evaluations, and tax evasion are the plat du jour for the Whites. This may as well be a board meeting.}}

{{Why can't you be content with heresy and madness like the rest of us? You think you're better or something, punks?}}

{{ Back in my day, all the Whites had was religious fanaticism, uphill, both ways. AND WE LIKED IT THAY WAY}}

{{EDIT: It appears The Emprah agrees with the notion that the title of this AAR is "This is Madness" and not "This is Trade Negotiations" for a reason.
 
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CzokletMuss

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{{"wishing for all Houses of the Imperial Senate to participate join me TOMORROW during the banquet."
Does that mean that all of us are invited?}}
{{ All senators who are members of a Faction may attend. }}
 

ThetrueColt

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{{
{{ BTW if you guys have nothing to talk about apart from investments we can end the meeting IMHO }}

Well, we always tried to create an image of our demes that we would care for the economy. So if we RP this a little more in detail, it shouldn't be too bad, should it?

I'd just like to hear from the other members if they will attend the banquet and if we will all arrive at once or not. Once that is done, I believe there is not much more to talk about.


{{The Whites' controllers clearly have a much different approach to "fun" from the rest of us. Apparently pie charts, stock evaluations, and tax evasion are the plat du jour for the Whites. This may as well be a board meeting.}}

{{Why can't you be content with heresy and madness like the rest of us? You think you're better or something, punks?}}

{{ Back in my day, all the Whites had was religious fanaticism, uphill, both ways. AND WE LIKED IT THAY WAY}}

Yep, we have quite different approaches to RP, as we found out last session. The question is, who is more mad? The one who acts insane and crazy in the world of TIM or the one who talks about business in a setting like this? :D
}}
 

zenphoenix

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{{What about unaffiliateds? Is there anything planned for them?}}
 

ThetrueColt

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{{Well, it might be about time that there is a disadvantage involved with being unaffiliated. However, since you are in Ravenna, you will still experience the results of the crazyness, even if you don't dine with diabolos himself. However at least the unaffilated challenger of Colombo should be at the banquet, if there are certain events planned by the President.}}
 

CzokletMuss

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{{What about unaffiliateds? Is there anything planned for them?}}
{{ No.

I will allow unaffiliated to join a Faction if they want before the banquet starts.}}
 

Serpent

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{{
We can just take it that the other Houses have reinvested just enough to keep their shares stable and that your shares are going to rise from now on, if you don't want to give me some numbers to play around with :D

If we don't want to, I'd just split it off like this:
Serapis: 65%
Ouranos: 7%
Melissenos: 3%
Pylaeus: 25%

What sounds more reasonable to you (considering what @McGrey said)?
}}

{{That looks good to me :)}}


{{The Whites' controllers clearly have a much different approach to "fun" from the rest of us. Apparently pie charts, stock evaluations, and tax evasion are the plat du jour for the Whites. This may as well be a board meeting.}}

{{Why can't you be content with heresy and madness like the rest of us? You think you're better or something, punks?}}

{{ Back in my day, all the Whites had was religious fanaticism, uphill, both ways. AND WE LIKED IT THAY WAY}}

{{EDIT: It appears The Emprah agrees with the notion that the title of this AAR is "This is Madness" and not "This is Trade Negotiations" for a reason.}}

{{We can't all be cannibals, you know. Variation makes things more interesting, and it can be fun to go from fanatical to idealistic to greedy to decadent, to heretical or insane. I really enjoy participating in this aar but it wouldn't be as fun if I kept playing the same way as I've always did, or if everyone played it according to the same old stereotypes. Besides, the Emprah commended us for thinking like greedy, scheaming, self-interested tax-evading politicians, so I don't think he minds. :D}}
 

McGrey

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{{The Whites' controllers clearly have a much different approach to "fun" from the rest of us. Apparently pie charts, stock evaluations, and tax evasion are the plat du jour for the Whites. This may as well be a board meeting.}}

{{Why can't you be content with heresy and madness like the rest of us? You think you're better or something, punks?}}

{{ Back in my day, all the Whites had was religious fanaticism, uphill, both ways. AND WE LIKED IT THAY WAY}}

{{EDIT: It appears The Emprah agrees with the notion that the title of this AAR is "This is Madness" and not "This is Trade Negotiations" for a reason.

{{The Melissenos are now a banking house. Is that not evil enough for you? Our motto is probably "We rob from the rich and we rob from the poor."

Edit: I too think we can close the meeting. (I mentioned that Lazaros will accompany Decius.) }}
 
Last edited:

Attalus

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{{ Well personnally I think we can end this now. The various things we had to discuss are now completed so let us not make the other Demes wait. :p }}
 
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