• Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

TheAnguishedOne

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Senator Magnus Arrius (Blue Demes):
Senator Philaretos Mandromenos (Red Demes):

The Angelodouloi have attacked and destroyed on their own accord. They will continue to do so if we don't stop them. We don't declare open season of the heretics, but we do send in the Army to Purge and Burn until all of the scum repent and return or die. Personally, I wouldn't mind another December Massacre in the rouge provinces. I saw the effectiveness of the Massacre with my own two eyes, I participated after all.
"You dare say that you want another December Massacre? Do you not recall that Senators died in that tragedy, my father included? I would not wish that horror on any Imperial citizen.

Senator Nikephoros IV Salamis (Blue Demes):
And Senator Arrius, aye, you show a suspicious... Is it good will, or liking, towards this new sect? I do wonder. It is cold outside, a fire would be welcome. The stench though... And the dishonor it would bring upon your great house... I would tread carefully, Arrius.
Is it heretical to hear the wisdom of the Angeloi? As I have said, her teachings have saved people. Lady Sophia has results showing she is not just spouting nonsense. Hurting her followers would be foolish, as they have done nothing wrong against the Imperium or our Augustus, and to consider harming her is revolting."
 

DKM

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{{@CzokletMuss did you see my question?}}
 

Serpent

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Senator Marius Serapis of the White Demes

Senator Magnus Arrius (Blue Demes):
Is it heretical to hear the wisdom of the Angeloi? As I have said, her teachings have saved people. Lady Sophia has results showing she is not just spouting nonsense. Hurting her followers would be foolish, as they have done nothing wrong against the Imperium or our Augustus, and to consider harming her is revolting."
Marius turns towards Arrius, visibly trying to suppress his anger. "She has not saved anyone, but damned millions to hell with her teachings. She's denied God himself and proclaims the Serpent the creator of the world. And you claim she is not a heretic and call her words wisdom. You should take Senator Salamis' advice, lest you be counted among her followers and share their fate."
 

CzokletMuss

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Attalus

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Senator Ioannes Raoul (Whites)

"Nothing wrong, you say Senator Arrius ? They desecrated the Holy Church, instigated sedition amongst the hoi polloi ! Everyone here, except you recognizes her as an heretic. The only reason she was not brought here and burned at the stake, is because of her name and reputation amongst the crowds. If we were in a better state the Imperium would not stand negotiate with a mad woman !"

{{ @CzokletMuss, the google docs for the Raoul is fine }}
 

zenphoenix

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Senator Alexios von Hohenzollern (Unaffiliated Demes):

Alexios sat quietly, listening to everything. He was shocked at the devastation he witnessed in Thessalonika and by the new heresy that was spreading through the Imperium. Surely the faithful were better than that!

"New senators, welcome to the Senate," he said, "I hope you can provide great benefits to the Imperium during your time here."

{{Sorry for the delay}}
 

Awesomematrix96

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Senator David Ignacion (Unaffiliated):

Assured by the words of Senator von Hohenzollern, David stood up and addressed his fellow senators.

"If I may be frank, we are up to our necks in revolution, rebellion and war. It is only recently that a great plague has ended, indeed at the cost of many lives. It is only a short sail from my home island to Italia and even there does rebellion threaten to unseat Imperial authority. I'd highly suggest we not make the problem worse! We must exercise restraint and caution in dealing with Lady Sophia's teachings." he sits back down, anxious.
 

DKM

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- the Praesidium is always convened while the Senate is in session.
{{ If that's the case, then how on Earth would you be able to appeal for a repeal of death charges before the senator is already dead? If the Praesidium convenes at the Senate and they have the power of denying an appeal, that means a senator would have to wait 20 years - a 20 years that they would be long dead by, before they can make an appeal to the Eparchos.}}
{{Here it is}}
 

ParrotGuy

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Senator Decius Pylaeus (Faction Speaker of the White Demes)
After all the horrors that I have seen, I do not think that the rebellions can possibly become worse. The vicious scourge that emerged from among us can only be stopped if it is encountered without mercy wherever we find it. My family is sworn to the protection of every and all knowledge at our disposal, if you ask me or any member of my house, a burning library is among the gravest sins one can commit against the Imperium. And since people tend to grow back a lot more rapidly than elaborate works of literacy, the answer is very clear to me.
Senator Nikephoros II Salamis (Blue Demes): {{Sorry, I just realized he's II and not IV}}
*Nikephoros nods towards Decius*
Aye, Senator Decius, I wholly agree. The burning of a sacred knowledge stored though thousands of years... an unspeakable crime, and I would daresay a crime almost as grave as, Kristos protect us, burning of buildings such as the Sacred Palace or holy Hagia Sophia. I find I agree with you, Senator Pylaeus, a lot more this session than the last one... before I joined the army. And if I may add, on an obviously unrelated note, you may yet see me becoming unaffiliated by the session's end... Or, perhaps, staying in the Blues... or joining another faction, hm.


Senator Magnus Arrius (Blue Demes):
Is it heretical to hear the wisdom of the Angeloi? As I have said, her teachings have saved people. Lady Sophia has results showing she is not just spouting nonsense. Hurting her followers would be foolish, as they have done nothing wrong against the Imperium or our Augustus, and to consider harming her is revolting."
Nay, Arrius, but it is heretical sympathizing with teachings which include a... what was it, a serpant, or the vile daemons of the Xenoi, as the creators of our world? Heresy, as grave as any.
 

ThetrueColt

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Senator Decius Pylaeus (Faction Speaker of the White Demes)

Senator Nikephoros II Salamis (Blue Demes): {{Sorry, I just realized he's II and not IV}}
*Nikephoros nods towards Decius*
Aye, Senator Decius, I wholly agree. The burning of a sacred knowledge stored though thousands of years... an unspeakable crime, and I would daresay a crime almost as grave as, Kristos protect us, burning of buildings such as the Sacred Palace or holy Hagia Sophia. I find I agree with you, Senator Pylaeus, a lot more this session than the last one... before I joined the army. And if I may add, on an obviously unrelated note, you may yet see me becoming unaffiliated by the session's end... Or, perhaps, staying in the Blues... or joining another faction, hm.
*To the Senate*

It is a welcome sight to see senators from all factions agree on this critical point. I'll leave it to you to further deal with Senator Arrius, as I do not want to meddle in the affairs of another faction. Also, since the, uh, "reformation" of the blues demes - an event that precedes your membership of these halls, I am afraid - I find that the new generation of blue Senators is (mostly) honorable and truly Roman. *Decius barely glances over to Colombo*

If you truly hold knowledge in such a high regard I'd like to talk to you during recess, Senator Salamis. Regardless of our political views, I think it is possible that we become allies in this mutual goal. Whether or not this makes you want to change your demes membership is a decision that only you can make.
 

TheAnguishedOne

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Senator Magnus Arrius (Blue Demes):

"You call her teachings heretical, but she has convinced a large amount of the Imperium. Nearly a fifth of our people has heard her teachings. If we anger them, we may have the worst rebellion in our history. I understand my opinion is unpopular, but surely we can all agree that she must be brought here to speak with us peacefully. Arresting her will only hurt us.

As for these... slights against me, that I am unfaithful... Need I remind you the Arrius family has been loyal to the Imperium since its founding? My family has never had a representative lashed or executed for crimes against the Imperium. Only my grandfather Marcus ever faced accusations, and he was the sole Deme arrested to be found innocent. I will not stand for these baseless accusations."
 

BanishTheSpleen

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Senator Banoub ibn Mahdi Rashid (Unaffiliated):

*Banoub arrives, walking through the door dressed in a simple traveller's without the pomp and splendor that is expected of his position. He is apprehended by guards due to his appearance as he tries to take his seat, upon which he furtively reveals to them his hidden Rashid signet ring and proof of senatorship. As the guards clear, he takes his seat in the hall*

Salaam al-aikum, fellow senators. I apologize for my absence from the last session, as I was making sure the people of Rashid had food to eat and a safe place to sleep at night.
But that is of no matter. As much as I love the diamond of a polis that is Rashid, sometimes my attention must stray from it to matters of the greater Imperium.
Now, to the problem of Sophia Angelos and her followers, the Angelodualists. Our options are somewhat constrained here, as we are dealing with unreasonable heretics the like of which we just defeated in the form of the so-called Holy Roman Empire, neither Holy nor Roman. These Angeloduali are a different case, however, as they are not codified by a political institution like the empire but are rather the result of the cult-like worship of one woman's work. Any attempt to suppress the heretics directly by force, then, is in my opinion an unsound strategy.

So, what are our options? As I see it, everything rests on Sophia Angelos and her detainment. What we do while she is detained may be they lynchpin of the Imperium and its' near future.
We could imprison and execute her, but while that may be instantly effective, we may create a martyr by doing so. My recommendation is similar: we detain her and ask her to change her doctrine to be friendly to the Imperium. Think about it-we could harness the movemet of the heretics to create something bigger-all while keeping the upper hand in our negotiation!

In Rashid, I was once faced with a similar solution with the minor trading families-concede victory to them in the face of the plague or wipe them out altogether? I chose the third option-integrate them into my system. Now they are working for me and Rahid, while still not as profitable as it once was, is weathering the times, at least.

I hope you take my words into consideration when casting your votes, fellow noblemen.
 

luciusmalfoy012

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Senator Alexius Colombo:

You are all cowards. Capponi was right then, and is right now. The Hoi Polloi are a menace that cannot be negotiated with, but they are also a menace that can be defeated. The army at its weakest state in centuries was able to put them down, and the Army is in a much better place now. We must crush this rebellion before it ever begins, and that means a trial, and not a Synod where Sophia can corrupt the minds and souls of the peasants of Constantinople. There will be no negotiation.

In this, at the very least, I can agree with the Whites. The brave ones, at least.

In addition, I will stand for accusations of heresy on the Senate floor, especially those directed against my faction. Magnus is entitled to his opinions to the extent that they are not heretical, even if I disagree vehemently with him.

*Alexius winks at Magnus*

*After the speech, Alexius writes another letter, this time address to Magnus Arrius. This time, he gives it directly to Arrius*


Be careful. You have friends here, more than you think, but more enemies by far. You must remember you are not the martyr, she is.

Destroy this letter, as soon as you read it, in whatever fashion is most discreet. Respond if you wish to communicate on strategy.
 

JerichoRoker

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Jakov Desmerti (Red Demes)

Jakov reads the note, and places it quietly in a pocket.

He motions for his handlers to lift him into something resembling a standing position, and speaks:

"Honored Senators, I believe to the end of this Anglodualism is if we have Sophia Angelos herself repent. To this end, we should send the Black Tagma to apprehend her but only with the stated goal of ensuring that she visits a great Synod. Then we should... persuade her to repent her heresy except for a few minor superficial items. Then she can declare so in front of the assembled governors not only of Italy, but all of the rebellious Archontes and Patricians. Afterwards, we should hold a trial where she might be convicted of some minor offense, perhaps worthy of a house arrest or something similar.

As to raising the tariffs on our Exchartes, I'm afraid that I do not know how rebellious they may be acting. It is possible that if we raise there taxes, they may stop paying all together.

{{@CzokletMuss can we know the current liberty desire of the Exchartes?}}
{{@luciusmalfoy012
}}
 
Last edited:

Undead Martyr

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Senator Alexios Este-Ravenna (Red Demes Speaker):

Senator Philaretos Mandromenos (Red Demes):

I disagree. The matters of the Church are to be handled by the Church alone. If we decide to convene the Synod, we do not need the Sophia or the Italians present. Without their corruptive influences, I believe they will make the proper decision. And if they don't, we can always purge the Bishops and purify them with fire. The heretics that follow Sophia will be put on trial with her and cleansed by holy fire. This is the only path to save the Imperium, if we remain divided we will fall, but if we strike a decisive blow against the fools....
"Many of the discontents in Italy feel their privations unadressed, left to wander in the wind. I believe it is utterly necessary to bring the Italian bishops into the Synod, so that they may be rectified in the capital under the light of the Church, and see for themselves the error of Sophia's ways. I would suggest that the attending bishops furthermore be required to reaffirm their loyalty to the Imperial Throne and Church, in person. They must be reminded of their loyalties and see the price of treason."
 

BanishTheSpleen

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Senator Banoub ibn Mahdi Rashid (Unaffiliated):

Senator Alexius Colombo:

You are all cowards. Capponi was right then, and is right now. The Hoi Polloi are a menace that cannot be negotiated with, but they are also a menace that can be defeated. The army at its weakest state in centuries was able to put them down, and the Army is in a much better place now. We must crush this rebellion before it ever begins, and that means a trial, and not a Synod where Sophia can corrupt the minds and souls of the peasants of Constantinople. There will be no negotiation.
While I do belive that we must not allow a Synod, negotiations are not out of the picture. She is an Angeloi, and as such wll eventually see the light, or at least take a non-hostile stance. I respect your points very much, Senator Colombo. My father told me stories of your dedication to the Imperium, and we need that right now more than anything else.
 

Serpent

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Senator Marius Serapis of the White Demes

"Negotiations, Senator Rashid? That would imply we are ready to offer concessions. Which parts of our Holy Faith are you willing to compromise to fit better with her Blasphemies? No, no. Negotiations are out of the question. That is not why we have been called into session. The question before us is wether to hold a Synod, a trial, or both.

A synod that is not followed by a trial would mean we condone heresy, which is unthinkable. A trial not preceeded by a synod would seen less legitimate and would cause a greater rebellion, which would be devastating. Neither would be of much use without the precense of the Angelina herself. A synod without her accounting for herself before witnesses would weaken its legitimacy in the eyes of the people, and weaken her esteem in the eyes of her followers. She could not allow that, since she seems to be driven by sinful hubris and a messiah-complex. If we invite her she will likely appear on her own free will but if she does not we must apprehend her.

As for her eventual sentence, that is not for us to decide. The Emperor will hopefully precide over the court and pronounce a fair verdict. If she ends up locked up in a quiet monastery or on the bonfire either way justice would be done and her movement weakened, but only after a Synod has first condemned her teachings."

{{
Can we vote for both a Synod and a trial? For both summoning her and arresting her with the Athanatoi if she does not come? If we do I assume the actions will be taken in the proper order: Announce Synod -> Summon Angelina -> Escort her to Synod -> Hold Synod -> Hold Trial (-> Burn the Witch)?
}}
 
Last edited:

McGrey

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{{It's interesting how the rift between views is going right through the Demes' ranks...}}
 

Serpent

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{{
Yes. The lack of faction-politics is a bit refreshing. Since the issues are not directly linked to faction influence there's no incentive to advocate anything but our characters own (mostly) honest opinions.
}}