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Mach Twelve

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Specially, as said by Teutonic King, since that's IRL Mexico-Tenochtitlan in 1518. This is Madness' Aztec Empire is far bigger and is technologically far more advanced. So, there's probably a dozen cities the size of Tenochtitlan, and the capital is way bigger. Probably bigger than 1800 London or Beijing, let's say 2 mio inhabitants.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the Aztecs are at 150 million people (rough estimate of Ming China at this time). It depends how urbanized they are, but it is likely that the Aztecs have multiple cities breaking the quarter million mark.
 

DKM

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It's important to remember that, though they are more advanced and urbanized, they are also still being decimated by the plague.
 

Teutonic King

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Yeah, that is accurate. They may have horses but they are likely suffering severely from diseases, so while they may be relatively strong in the old world it is most likely due to the fact that they are mixed blood. The pure natives are likely dying off by the thousands each day. I wouldn't be surprised to see that some of the civilizations collapsed.
 
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Ponce_The_Great

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Don't foreget they've been having slave revolts and civil wars for the last couple of years.
 
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Attalus

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Yeah, that is accurate. They may have horses but they are likely suffering severely from diseases, so while they may be relatively strong in the old world it is most likely due to the fact that they are mixed blood. The pure natives are likely dying off by the thousands each day. I wouldn't be surprised to see that some of the civilizations collapsed.
Well we can assume that the microbian shock would impact less the Aztecs than OTL. They had more contact with Europe (Vinland and then the conquest)
So sure they'd lose a part of the population but it would be more akin to what Europe suffered with the Black Plague than what Amerindians suffered IMO
 
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CzokletMuss

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Don't forget that the Sunset Invasion took place in 13th century and right now we're in the middle of 16th century.

BTW I estimate current (1555) population of the Imperium to be c. 35 mln. The population of rest of Europe (including lands controlled by xenoi but not lands controlled by the Horde) is probably around 20-30 mln at best. Together with lands of the Horde and Khanate of Lithuania total number of people living in Europe that would be around 35-40 mln.

481px-Europe_orthographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary_%28with_borders%29.svg.png


So all in all the total population of the green area on this map should be around 50 mln. Total world population in 16th century in "Imperium Sine Fine" would be around 400-500 mln.
 
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CzokletMuss

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Hmm probably something like that, yeah. There is no precise information about world's population or even regional population before 18-19th century though, so even IRL all we have are estimations. So all these numbers should be taken with a pinch of salt. Population becomes important only in V2 however, so for the next several months it's not an issue.
 
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GaiusC

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When looking at the real numbers for our world, we should keep in mind that the 1600 numbers include the loss of something like 50 mio people in America.
If Americas suffered terrible losses, they're in the past in this world, and the continent has fully recovered. If RL Americas were close to 80 mio in 1500/1519, it's a safe bet to put the American population at 150 mio in This is Madness. Not sure how much more would be realistic.
Then, I seem to remember the CK2 Sunset Invasion events being the reverse copy of what happened, with not only superior tech for Aztecs, but with their own American diseases plaguing Europe and causing plenty of deaths. Coupled with centuries of warfare, genocides and sacrifices, it's clear Europe in This is Madness is way lower than the historical 100 mio; 50 mio is indeed the highest realistic guesstimate, and probably a bit less.
Actual real life numbers for Asia are probably accurate, on the other hand, so 330 mio all over. 150 mio in China, 120 mio in India, 20 mio in Middle-East and 40-50 mio in Japan / Siberia / SE Asia.
African numbers, well, they're probably a little bit higher, if Africa wasn't hit as hard by the slave trade during 16th century, but on the other hand they have Xenoi and recurring massive wars all over N. Africa; so 55-60 mio I'd say.

All in all, world population should be between 550 and 600 mio in 1550.
On the other hand, if India and China experienced massive wars in the last century, numbers for Asia would be lower, possibly lower than historical ones.
 
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DKM

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but with their own American diseases plaguing Europe and causing plenty of deaths.
I don't remember that part ever happening.
 

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I think it was in the last chapter about St-Markos but I might be mistaken
Yes, there was a plague but the one the chapter was talking about was the one before the Aztec invaders arrived. It was said to be one of the signs that the apocalypse was coming. I don't think it was from America.
 

Attalus

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Yes, there was a plague but the one the chapter was talking about was the one before the Aztec invaders arrived. It was said to be one of the signs that the apocalypse was coming. I don't think it was from America.
Let us remember that the narrator of TIM is not always reliable so maybe he used the plague that happened after as a "sign"
Well syphilis is rather deadly in SI games so maybe it's that combined with little other diseases ? I'd wait for Czoklet answer though.
 

CzokletMuss

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Yes, there was a plague but the one the chapter was talking about was the one before the Aztec invaders arrived. It was said to be one of the signs that the apocalypse was coming. I don't think it was from America.
Yes, it was described here. The source of the Great Plague was not named and how it spread was not explained - however, it was implied that its outbreak was caused by Strangers from Beyond the Sea.

JronCy1.jpg


Today I would write it differently so that it would be clearer but yes, the plague was from the Far West. You can treat this statement as the so called Word of God ;)

Let us remember that the narrator of TIM is not always reliable so maybe he used the plague that happened after as a "sign".
This. CK2 part of the story was written in a way mimicking medieval chronicles , hence the unreliable narrator, Biblical symbolism and many supernatural elements.
 
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On African population, we also have to take into account the no doubt thriving and populous cities in the mysterious lands of Mali.

I believe you mean the Vaults of Mali.
 

DKM

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Today I would write it differently so that it would be clearer but yes, the plague was from the Far West. You can treat this statement as the so called Word of God ;)
Thank you for clearing that up.