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TheAnguishedOne

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BUT BUBBA CAN'T DIE! I PLEAD GUILTY!!! <--- THAT MAY WORK! :D

Think about it, if I JUST joined the senate, and I plead guilty, they have irrefutable proof that I'm innocent. It creates a paradox that Czlokelt won't want to solve and we all walk home free!
Blues ftw! :D

Grimdark world. Pleading guilty to a crime you clearly couldn't have done only proves you're guilty of some other heresy.
 

Tristanxh

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Grimdark world. Pleading guilty to a crime you clearly couldn't have done only proves you're guilty of some other heresy.

Aye, but they can't kill anyone else for that crime if I plead guilty that I'm the only one who was involved. My heresy? *Sheogorath voice over* INSANITY!

*Thus I was convicted of the crime of insanity, but Bubba and the Blues walked home free*
/\
|
Bubba and the Blues is actually cool sounding name if you want to make a band lol
 
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Zqrfmb

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well, if you plead guilty, the athanatoi will assume your entire family and demes are also in on it and torture you for the information before burning htem all.

if you plead not guilty, the athanatoi will be certain your entire family and demes are also in on it and forego torturing you for the information and just go straight to burning.
 

coragamy

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And if the president of the senate is presiding over the trial, their is nothing that can be done to save Bubba.
 

Tristanxh

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well, if you plead guilty, the athanatoi will assume your entire family and demes are also in on it and torture you for the information before burning htem all.

if you plead not guilty, the athanatoi will be certain your entire family and demes are also in on it and forego torturing you for the information and just go straight to burning.

#4444? 4 IN A ROW! BINGO! SIR YOU WIN!

^ Ok onto the topic, *Shiela Jackson Lee voice over* I PLEAD THE 5TH!

Onto the topic for real ^ Yea, well I just say I'm the only guy behind it, a bunch of Xenois converted me to Xenoi and I killed him in the name of Montezuma! I might add a few parts about demons and all just to make them happy. Finding out that there is testimony to Xenois directly consorting with Demons...

And if the president of the senate is presiding over the trial, their is nothing that can be done to save Bubba.

AS I SAID! Tribunes of the People are suppose to preside over Roman trials! This here trial is THE HERESY!
 

coragamy

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Tristan. This is grimdark. Stuff happens, when czoklet wants it to happen, as czoklet wants it to happen, rules thrown off the top of the palace.
 
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Tristanxh

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Tristan. This is grimdark. Stuff happens, when czoklet wants it to happen, as czoklet wants it to happen, rules thrown off the top of the palace.

Example: Highly prestigious individuals dying in the middle of Blue senate meetings...

HEY GUYS! I caught murderer! His name is CzokletMuss! lol

But he wouldn't just kill the entire Blue faction now, would he? I mean... That just seems a bit extreme... And Bubba just got here... Dying so early... One of the greatest TIS characters... :(
Okay, I can see Czoklet stabbing Voodoo dolls of all of the Blue faction members to kill them... But still, the entire faction? That seems just too unrealistic / inaccurate...
Parties didn't die over night! Unless... Your name is Belisarus and their name is the Party's name is the Greens. Cause, the Blues have always been loyal to the Empire! Those dirty Greens deserved it!
 
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Teutonic King

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Example: Highly prestigious individuals dying in the middle of Blue senate meetings...

HEY GUYS! I caught murderer! His name is CzokletMuss! lol

But he wouldn't just kill the entire Blue faction now, would he? I mean... That just seems a bit extreme... And Bubba just got here... Dying so early... One of the greatest TIS characters... :(
Okay, I can see Czoklet stabbing Voodoo dolls of all of the Blue faction members to kill them... But still, the entire faction? That seems just too unrealistic / inaccurate...
Parties didn't die over night! Unless... Your name is Belisarus and their name is the Party's name is the Greens. Cause, the Blues have always been loyal to the Empire! Those dirty Greens deserved it!
You are enthusiastic, there are no doubts about that. However I would tread carefully if I were you, your character has yet to be accepted into the senate, and if you annoy the Holy Autokrator Czoklet enough, he might just drop the death hammer upon your head saying it was judgment from God.
 
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Tristanxh

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You are entusiastic, there are no doubts about that. However I would tread carefully if I were you, your character has yet to be accepted into the senate, and if you annoy the Holy Autokrator Czoklet enough, he might just drop the death hammer upon your head saying it was judgment from God.

Aye, I am well aware... But if I die, I DIE FOR THE IMPERIUM *OF MAN*! :p

Oh yea, so about killing people... Can we kill people? Hire assassins? Fun stuff like that? Like Czoklet could easily make a fair system like a Dungeon and Dragon's hit and miss dice / number system. If we get a good roll we kill the bugger, but if we miss the next roll, oh no we were discovered! If we miss both rolls we are exposed entirely and fail. If we miss the first but get the second we fail but he doesn't know who tried to kill him.

^ Just use private message so that people other than Czoklet can't see who sent what.
And than we can use the CKII feature of go into hiding to boost the stats to our favor, but we must come out of our hole to attend Senate session. :D
 
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Tristanxh

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I don't think that is feasible since it would complicate matters tenfold.

Well... There isn't anything wrong with complicating stuff... Besides MURDER and ASSASSINATION are necessary parts of any standing senate. Also, if they don't, than we already know that everyone is innocent when it comes down to a trial of any non-verbal crime... *Cough* Blues are innocent *Cough*

^ And it wouldn't actually complicate stuff that much, other than people dying more often..


*Off of subject*
Am I the only one who imagines the current President of the Senate as the Principal from Assassination Classroom? :p

Ci4b2rl.png


*Us commenters are allowed to post pictures right? If not than I'll take it down.*
 

ParrotGuy

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Bubba is alright, right? :( I'd have to kill someone if he died... *sharpens knives, muwahaha IT ISN'T MARCH, BUT STILL! AVE! FALL CAESAR!* :D

But, joining the Senate as an Isaurian will impede the president from ever disrespecting people based on, "Meh family did this, ye filthy peasants!"
The closest they got to real prestigious positions was a, Anna Dalasenne, who served for a few years as regent. The rest of them were lowly public officials and a few magistrates.
On the other hand, the Isaurians were strategoses of the Anatolic theme before Leo III Isauros became Emperor. Even if the Isaurians weren't successful in the end and lost due to religious and a political shifts, the Dalasennes don't have anything on them in matters of prestige level.

As such I would find it quite audacious if President Dalasenne continues to bring this matter of prestige up every time the senate questions his actions.
I'm sorry, but we Senators are from the Aristoi, not the Dynatoi. We are from a lower class than the Dynatoi, we hold much less lands if we even hold land. for example, there was a Senator who held some lands in Serbia, while my Senator holds a castle- a big castle, yet still a castle, and some lands surrounding it including a city (the second biggest after Athens in the area, but still- a small patch of land). But the Dynatoi, they hold big lands and they have a lot of influence, much more than we.
The Dalasennes are Dynatoi, and as such- they are more prestigeous than our families. If you claim your family is more prestigous than theirs, then your family is a Dynatoi family and as such, I believe, not really allowed to be in the Senate.
 
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CzokletMuss

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! I say we should insure we get a different presiding judge, a Tribune of the People to preside over the hearings, as it should be!

  • The right to have a legal trial (to appear before a proper court and to defend oneself).
  • The right to appeal from the decisions of magistrates and to appeal the lower court decisions.
  • A Roman citizen could not be tortured or whipped, nor could he receive the death penalty, unless he was found guilty of treason.
  • If accused of treason, a Roman citizen had the right to be tried in Rome, and even if sentenced to death, no Roman citizen could be sentenced to die on the cross.
While it has been stated that Roman rights would be much more restricted in this time line, I believe that as Senators of Rome, we would still be entitled to such rights. Do you not agree?
Not at all. Take a look at this simplistic diagram:

legal institutions of Roman Republic (before 1st century BC) <------> legal institutions of Roman Empire (before 5th century AD)
legal institutions of Roman Empire (before 5th century AD) <-----------> legal institutions of Eastern Roman Empire
legal institutions of Eastern Roman Empire (before 11th century AD) <----------------> legal institutions of medieval Eastern Roman Empire
legal institutions of Eastern Roman Empire (after 11th century AD) <-------------------------------> legal institutions of Imperium Romanum after Sunset Invasion (16th century AD)

Assassination of megas droungarios is comparable to assassination of, say, Secretary of State in USA and would be treated as an act of terrorism. Let me remind you that USA uses unlawful abductions, drone strikes, detention with no right to appeal and inhuman and degrading torture including waterboarding, sleep deprivation, beating and rectal feeding, not to mention several cases in which the deteiness were allegedly raped. And this is a modern democratic country with Bill of Rights, rule of law and all that Enlightment-related stuff - which didn't stop it from breaking United Nations Convention against Torture and virtually all human rights.

So to reply to your list of "rights":

64523-Ramsay-Snow-sausage-gif-mhysa-blfs_zps9949846f.gif


If anything imperial dungeons are less horrifying than Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib because the Athanatoi don't have the knowledge of physiology, psychology and anatomy we have today, not to mention technical capabilities.
 
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mayorqw

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This doesn't bode well for anyone.
Except if these obviously guilty perpetrators are Xenoi. Which they clearly are.
Trying to expose Roman youths to the corruption of the outside world...

Not at all. Take a look at this simplistic diagram:
legal institutions of Roman Republic (before 1st century BC) <----------------(...)-----------------> legal institutions of Imperium Romanum after Sunset Invasion (16th century AD).

Evem without the Sunset Invasion, one only has to look at the many, many, cases of blindings and other extrajudicial punishments to see that the Eastern Romans weren't great fans of personal inviolability.
 

ThetrueColt

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Alright, Czoklet just pulled out the Ramsay card. Sorry Blues, it was nice to know you. Your death will be long, extremely cruel and abhorrently violent.
 
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Undead Martyr

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But, but... we Blues have cookies! D:
Oatmeal raisin cookies!


In regards to civil rights... the Blues are doomed. Doomed I tell ya!
Sad Bubba will die (and I'm kind of resigned to his death... though the Emperor could pardon him, maybe? Pretty please with a cherry on top?) but thems the breaks....
 

Teutonic King

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Not at all. Take a look at this simplistic diagram:

legal institutions of Roman Republic (before 1st century BC) <------> legal institutions of Roman Empire (before 5th century AD)
legal institutions of Roman Empire (before 5th century AD) <-----------> legal institutions of Eastern Roman Empire
legal institutions of Eastern Roman Empire (before 11th century AD) <----------------> legal institutions of medieval Eastern Roman Empire
legal institutions of Eastern Roman Empire (after 11th century AD) <-------------------------------> legal institutions of Imperium Romanum after Sunset Invasion (16th century AD)

Assassination of megas droungarios is comparable to assassination of, say, Secretary of State in USA and would be treated as an act of terrorism. Let me remind you that USA uses unlawful abductions, drone strikes, detention with no right to appeal and inhuman and degrading torture including waterboarding, sleep deprivation, beating and rectal feeding, not to mention several cases in which the deteiness were allegedly raped. And this is a modern democratic country with Bill of Rights, rule of law and all that Enlightment-related stuff - which didn't stop it from breaking United Nations Convention against Torture and virtually all human rights.

So to reply to your list of "rights":

64523-Ramsay-Snow-sausage-gif-mhysa-blfs_zps9949846f.gif


If anything imperial dungeons are less horrifying than Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib because the Athanatoi don't have the knowledge of physiology, psychology and anatomy we have today, not to mention technical capabilities.
We were going to kill one of the sick ones if they didn't comply...

OH! Kill one of the sick ones, what are you going to do if that doesn't work? Waterboard the elderly?
 

TheAnguishedOne

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So to reply to your list of "rights":

64523-Ramsay-Snow-sausage-gif-mhysa-blfs_zps9949846f.gif


If that is a representation of how the four awaiting trial are being treated, we should probably just start confessing to everything we can think of so death arrives sooner.
 

coragamy

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No no please don't confess. This is just getting interesting.
 

TheAnguishedOne

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No no please don't confess. This is just getting interesting.

No worries, I have no intention of having Marcus confess. That said, I have no idea how imprisonment is for him (that gif Czoklet posted has me worried someone's gained a new name while locked away).