This Is Madness 2 - Imperium Sine Fine (Interactive Mega Campaign)

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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

KingJerkera

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{{ Yes, Senate Policies are modded by me based on what you propose, while (standard) Policies are the ones from vanilla EU4. Right now "Provincial Taxation System" is the only enacted policy and you are correct, it has exactly the same effects as the one proposed by Red Demes.

Perhaps I should chose a new name for Senate Policies to avoid such problems, although "policy" is the most apropriate term IMHO.}}
{{ Well OK I do have a bit of a question then. Do we have to renew the policies that we enacted in the past?
Because it was my understanding that we do have a policy in effect right now and that it is the provincial taxation system.
Also we could call the vanilla policies internal policies and the cross faction/proposed policy as senatorial policy just to distinguish from the others.}}
 

DKM

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{{So my idea for a cost was rejected then Czoklet? You never gave your opinion on it so you kind of just left me hanging.}}
 
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CzokletMuss

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{{
@CzokletMuss A suggestion: Rephrasing the "special senate policies" as "consilium senatoris" to clear things up while "policies" just refers to the vanilla ones?}}
{{Good idea!
{{ Well OK I do have a bit of a question then. Do we have to renew the policies that we enacted in the past?
Because it was my understanding that we do have a policy in effect right now and that it is the provincial taxation system.
Also we could call the vanilla policies internal policies and the cross faction/proposed policy as senatorial policy just to distinguish from the others.}}
{{Vanilla policy enacted by the Senate is enacted until it is revoked. Each Session - including the current one - all vanilla policies are put to a vote. In this case you will be voting "FOR" or "AGAINST" revocation of "Provincial Taxation System".
{{So my idea for a cost was rejected then Czoklet? You never your opinion on it so you kind of just left me hanging.}}
There is no time to change this now but I'll think about your proposal before the next Session and maybe use it in the future}}
 
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Teutonic King

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Senator Quintus Ovidius Mojmirid

Megas Droungarios Javier Espinosa:


Espinosa smiles to senator Raoul.

- An excellent question, noble Senator Alexandros of the House Raoul! I fear however that this is not the best time to discuss the fabled war fire. There is no matter more important before this Senate at the moment than those concerning Serica.


- The expedition, if organized, will be led by sailors from Socotra. The legacy of Kermanoi lives with them and I doubt there are better seamen anywhere in the Imperium. I will personally ensure that the Nasrani from Ceylon join us as well, for they have best knowledge of the seas surrounding the island and Hindustan. As for your other questions, White Speaker...

Espinosa scratches his head before answering.

- It was not my pride which put me in the position of the representative of the Throne before the ruler of Zhongguo, whether you believe in this or not. It was His Imperial Majesty who deemed me worthy of his trust – and who am I to question judgement of the sacred Emperor? Yes, the journey will last few years probably, but we will not set sails tomorrow, my friend. Before I leave Konstantinoupolis carrying gifts for the ruler of Serikoi we need to know how to get there. This means charting the seas between Ceylon and this distant lands and no man can tell how long will it take. So I believe it would be at least several years before I will be sent there by the blessed Autokrator. As for my duties as Megas Droungarios... Espinosa winks - I'm just a humble servant of the Throne. Who is more suited to represent His Imperial Majesty in your opinion, I don't know. But who can carry out this task without neglecting matters fundamental for the Imperium? Megas Logothetes? Perhaps – he's primus inter pares of the members of the Imperial Council and it was Megas Logothetes who in the name of the Emperor negotiated peace with the Westerners. I fear however that the current state of adminstrative and economical affairs is such that it doesn't allow Hix Excellency to leave the Imperium. Megas Domestikos? Surely, without a doubt he's a capable man who enjoys trust of His Imperial Majesty. But is sending the commander of the Imperial Army to such perilous and long journey wise? Not to mention the diplomatic repercussions of sending the first soldier of the Imperium to Serica.

Espinosa smiles again.

- I fear the Throne can't afford to offend ruler of Zhongguo, nor can it allow for Megas Logothetes to leave imperial administration unattended in this very moment. Megas Droungarios, on the other hand, is in charge of the Imperial Navy, which you yourself called „unimportant” if I remember correctly - He raises a chalice to senator Raoul - Let then this unimportant servant of the Throne carry out his duty, as he was ordered to by His Imperial Majesty.

{{Cost for explorer will be more or less the same as the last time: }}

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        add_years_of_income = -0.5
        define_explorer = {
            name = "Iebediah Kermanos"
            fire = 0
            shock = 0
            siege = 0
            manuever = 1
        }
        light_ship = 365
        light_ship = 365
        light_ship = 365
    }

"I am highly intrigued by this. As I have been saying, an expedition to Cathay would be of great benefit to us. I was correct in my previous beliefs that Silk, and other fine goods, come from mythical Cathay. Even though we, as members of the Senate, cannot fund our own expedition, to reduced, or remove, the cost to the Imperium, it is nice to know that someone who is already employed by the Empire will be taking this mission upon themselves. That being said, would it not be wise to also bring one member of the Senate, to act as a representative of the Senate, and the People of the Imperum? If I remember correctly, the envoys from Cathay brought many retainers with them to act as representatives of each facet of the government, it would be ill advised to send just one man to speak for everyone in the Imperium, would it not?"

Taking a moment to gather his thoughts, Quintus continued. "I also would have to agree with Senator Serapis on his decision to improve our production in goods, and to reduce the cost of maintaining the military.
{{+10% Production Efficiency, -10% Military Maintenance}} However I do have one concern, as Senators, we speak for the republic aspect of the Imperium, ergo the people. Would it not be a step in the wrong direction to increase slavery/ serfdom? Should we not work toward freeing people? I feel that we can improve production in the Imperium with less slave labor and, in stead, focus on building projects where we employ our own free citizen population."

In the hopes of giving his fellow senators something to discuss, and think about, Quintus returned to his seat.
 
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TurtleShroom

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{ OOC: I think it should spawn a heavy Carracks instead of a light ship, and preferably, more than three. If we're going to impress the Middle Kingdom, we need X-Box HUGE ships, not puny little Barques! }

------

Senator Bubba Azizid

"I am officially unaligned with any
Khural at the moment and, given my previous statements and actions, I am beginning to doubt that I should remain unaffiliated. I see wisdom in Blue and White, the former appealing to my culture and deep-seated urges for expansion and security, while the latter appears to my heart and soul as a Khristed-itgegch and a Roman."

He paused.

"I believe that, this time, the White Khural has procured the best and wisest policy for the betterment of the Imperium. My people work the fields of the east for their own betterment and, naturally, for the wealth of Rome. They complain about regulation and monopolization by the Tarkhan of newly annexed Mongolyn realms. More integrated provinces speak the same ills about the Noyen who rule over them under the Roman feudal structure."

Bubba noticed the confused looks on his fellow Senators' faces, and he decided to go into detail on it.

"I don't know the corresponding terms in your language, so I'll try and explain it to you. In
Mongolyn Ezent Güren governance, Tarkhans, also called Darugha, would be appointed over newly conquered lands by the military of the Khanate until opposition and dissent can be pacified and the province integrated. Rome does the same, particuarly in Crimea and the former Khanates of Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, and east of Antioch. When a province is integrated properly, both Rome and Mongolyn Ezent Güren would install a permanent Noyan to administer the state... I think your term for a state-level Noyan is... uhh, ducks? I'm not sure." { OOC: He refers to "Doux". }

Bubba paused and tried to remember where he was going with this.

"Now, as with every Imperium, Khanate, and state in this world,
Noyan and Darugha alike are all descendants of given tribes. Everyone in this Senate has their tribe. I am of Azizid, there's someone here from the Arrius tribe... each of these tribes, these Houses, can grow and wane in power. One tribe, in particular, is the one we all know and love: the holy and glorious Angelos tribe, God's Regents on earth, are what we call the Gurkhan, or an Universal Ruler, a word more ancient and higher than Khagan and exceeding all mortal powers on the earth.
The lesser tribes under Roman hegemony, still entrenched and ancient,
are. I think the word you use is 'die-nuh-toe-ye'." { OOC: He refers to "Dynatoi". }

He nodded.

"The die-nuh-toe-ye tribes are very powerful and monopolize trade and corner production, making it harder for my people, and probably the people of many other states within Rome, to compete. I have heard that both the Blue and White
Khurals have discussed curbing their power and giving more freedom to the producers to fund the Imperium.
The White
Khural has done exactly that with their proposal to boost Production! My dear nökers in the Blue Khural have proposed a means of boosting trade. Yet, the figures presented to us for our debate show production far exceeding trade. If we can boost production, we can boost the Chang. I don't know what you call it, but the Chang is the tax levied on land and the firstfruits thereof. The Chang is what you are reporting in your charts concerning 'production income'."

He smiled.

"I said that to say this. The White
Khural has proposed a measure to boost the Chang. The Chang is a huge source of income that eclipses trade. When it comes to the ecnomy, we Mongolyn have learned that a government that governs the economy the least, governs the best. The die-nuh-toe-ye strangle our production and harm the Chang, reducing its income because they stifle competition to enrich themselves. They enforce serfdom, which slashes at morale and makes the Bo'ol, the peasantry, fail to see the glory and benefit of Rome. If we free our good, Christian Bo'ol- our fellow Romans -from their chains of serfdom, word will get out that the Imperium is not only a place of salvation, glory, and the True Faith, but one of freedom. We all know that the Angeloi protect; I believe that the White Khural's plan to rein in the die-nuh-toe-ye is a step towards abolishing serfdom of the Roman, Orthodox peasantry. The Bo'ol already die for Rome and her holy banners: why not make them even more determined? That'll slash our revolt risks and the possibility of disasters, because Rome will become synonymous with freedom, even more so than we are now.
Nökers, Rome IS freedom. This policy IS freedom. The Whites have the best policy."

Bubba smiled widely.

"Now, do not let you be confused that this freedom should extend to the Xenoi! No, this freedom, this abolition of serfdom, is for loyal and proven Romans, and enjoyed only by
Khristed-itgegch peoples. The slaves of the chötgör Tenger, the Xenoi, no, they do not get freedom. Freedom for Rome, for the Church, but subjugation for the chötgor Xenoi and conversion for the Mongolyn. A free people will die for their freedom, and a free people will never hesitate to obey their Imperior. The Angeloi are liberators, saviors on the earth, and if they consider abolishing serfdom, watch as all true Romans praise the name of the Angeloi, more so than ever!
Look at Saint Markos! Markos freed untold scores of men from Xenoi yoke. In the darkest hour, he delivered us from evil, in a miracle only doable by God's work. I truly believe that Saint Markos would stand by the abolition of serfdom."


{ OOC: Have you ever considered modding it so that Rome could one day choose Plutocratic Ideas? }

Bubba was getting excited about this personal passion of his.

"Now, let's talk another form of freedom. I was shocked when my older brother, the archbishop, told me that the Church's power and authority had been reigned in. My brother was afraid it would hamper our work in the steppes, leading souls to Christ and out of the bondage of Tenger. No one objected to the Church paying taxes to Rome in a time of emergency, but no one supported otherwise reigning in the Church's power. Nothing Rome succeeds in is apart from God, and the Church is the beacon, the city on the hill. The Church is the source of all things good in Rome, and the source of the Angeloi's power, and glory. We are servants of the Angeloi, the Angeloi are servants of Yesüs Khristed. I understand the Imperior's reason for it, and I cannot question it because I don't fully know his situation, but I pray that the Church will be given the power she needs to help my House and all the good Roman missionaries of the world spread the Gospel."

Bubba sat down.

"I support the White Khural's policy to reform the economy and boost production. God willing, it will lead to removing serfdom and giving the Bo'ol the ability to serve the Imperior to the absolute fullest of their potential. Uuhai, Angeloi; the Angeloi protect!"

He remembered one last thing before he finished.

"Also, outside these halls and when I was in danger, one Senator in particular managed to see me and, with the blessing of God and the quick thinking of the man, saved my life. I don't want to go into the details of why or what happened, but I surely was going to die before he took me out of the way. I am speaking of this now because I don't want to name any names, but when the Senate lets out, I wish to see the man who saved me. I have something very special to give him."
 
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TheAnguishedOne

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Senator Marcus Arrius

Serapis, I would agree to the modified policy you proposed to me if you and the White Demes agree to fund the expedition. I already tried to reach an agreement with you and your faction ignored my offer, wishing to work with the Reds instead. In response to this insult, I will not budge on my terms. I want to work with you, but I truly believe I will have failed both my faction and the Imperium if I do not secure the expedition.
 

Serpent

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Senator Alexios Serapis of the White Demes


"Senator Arrius, what failure is there for the Blue if we pass a policy that strengthens both Production and Trade? How is that anything but a fair and equitable Exchange that looks to both our interests? Why not leave the expedition out of the discussion entirely? The White Demes can never condone the expense, and the Blue it seems can only ignore the expense. The Policy is the only Point on the agenda that requires our agreement. Let's leave the rest for the Senators individual votes to decide."

{{Taurinus? The suspense is killing me.}}

{{TurtleShroom, great roleplaying :)}}
 
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ThetrueColt

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Senator Decius Pylaeus

"We are grateful for your support, senators Mojmirid and Azizid. It shows that even among the unaffiliated and the blues there are senators who truly desire nothing but the best for Rome. However, let me counsel you on this: A talk about slavery is such an important topic that it would probably be the centre of the discussion for an entire session, but our debate right now is about to end. It would be wiser to focus on current issues and save non-urgent topics for a later date."


{{
as Senators, we speak for the republic aspect of the Imperium, ergo the people. Would it not be a step in the wrong direction to increase slavery/ serfdom? Should we not work toward freeing people?

freedom freedom freedom

Ah, foolish new senators wanting to start a discussion on slavery 2,5 hours before the debate ends. So naive and full of ideals...

I am officially unaligned with any Khural at the moment

No. Officially, you are blue. You can change that only during voting...}}
 
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ThetrueColt

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Senator Decius Pylaeus

Decius whispers to senator Serapis.

"Alexios, do not give in to a greedy merchant, especially now. It deeply disgusts me to see that when time is running out, he still thinks only of his personal gains and not about the Imperium. Most of the blues are truly without honour. Even proposing a new mixed policy will do us no good, because we will have given in to the greedy merchants one more time, while they get what they want. It concerns me heavily, but if the reds fail to support us, it is probably best for the Imperium if no policy is proposed, even though it is a terrible outcome for our beloved senate. Either the blues give up their selfishness for the greater good at least a single time and support our noble and altruistic policy without any concessions from our side
, or the reds help us, or all of us are doomed.

I am starting to believe that we are the only ones who act to better the situation of Rome, whereas the majority of the blues cannot see beyond their petty self-interests and greed. This is a truly saddening thought, my friend."
 

Serpent

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Senator Alexios Serapis of the White Demes


Alexios whispers back to Decius. "I will not give in to his demands, my friend. Even negotiating with him when most Reds and some Blues have expressed support for our policy is enough of a concession. However, it's not only the standing of the Senate that is at stake, and to tell the truth the Senate is beginning to disgust me. The Imperium must always come first and improving our trade and production would help the Imperium far more than doing nothing. History will never forgive us if we fail today, and if I must deal with the" *he almost says devil* "enemy to succeed I will do it."
 

ThetrueColt

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Senator Decius Pylaeus

"Sadly, you are right. Normally it should not even come to this, it is a shame. Such are the hard decisions a speaker has to make. But even while I see and agree to your reasons, I have to warn you, because you will probably have to face criticism for giving up on the maintenance even among our friends in the demes. Nobody said that leading a demes would be a nice job, right? And as of now, the blues are not even willing to make that bargain because their greed knows no bounds."

*Decius tries a pained smile showing his discontent with the state of affairs*
 

varetta

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Alexios merely shakes his head at Senator Scipions nonsensical tirade, hoping cooler heads prevail in the Red Demes.

((Remember, my senator has taken some medicines and he is a bit excited by now. He took the attack to the Army as a personal attack. Army is at the hearth of the Scipion´s.

Besides I was just reading the part when every body accuse everybody of heresy and I was inspired :D:D:D

We are the League of Angry Old Men :mad::mad::mad: ))
 

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Senator Alexios Serapis of the White Demes


"At least our consciences can be clear. We have done all we can" *He rubs his temples,* I hope it is enough.

--

{{It's all good Varetta. It would be boring if we all roleplayed the same way. My last Senator would have stood there shouting by your side ;)}}
 

Undead Martyr

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Senator Giacomo Este Ravenna of the Red Demes:

Would that we had chosen Scipion, at least he speaks up.

He stands. "Our leader's ineptitude disgusts me. When even the scions of horselords show sense in word and deed yet good Romans stand silent.. I do not know if it is more tragedy or farce. To the honorable senator Scipion, I urge you to stand firm on your original proposal, as I find it wholly agreeable... you do not need to deal with the Blue Demes. If nothing else the maintenance of our old policy would be beneficial.
I must also echo those who question the wisdom of an expedition to Cathay. Pisa stands weak and rich right next to our borders! Our economy falters, malcontents simmer, and they want to spend more gold on distant ventures?! Put our own house to order first, or at least focus on a proven enemy!"
 

CzokletMuss

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President of the Senate Nikephoros Dalassenos:

Senator Bubba Azizid
(...)
"I said that to say this. The White Khural has proposed a measure to boost the Chang. The Chang is a huge source of income that eclipses trade. When it comes to the ecnomy, we Mongolyn have learned that a government that governs the economy the least, governs the best. The die-nuh-toe-ye strangle our production and harm the Chang, reducing its income because they stifle competition to enrich themselves. They enforce serfdom, which slashes at morale and makes the Bo'ol, the peasantry, fail to see the glory and benefit of Rome. If we free our good, Christian Bo'ol- our fellow Romans -from their chains of serfdom, word will get out that the Imperium is not only a place of salvation, glory, and the True Faith, but one of freedom. We all know that the Angeloi protect; I believe that the White Khural's plan to rein in the die-nuh-toe-ye is a step towards abolishing serfdom of the Roman, Orthodox peasantry. The Bo'ol already die for Rome and her holy banners: why not make them even more determined? That'll slash our revolt risks and the possibility of disasters, because Rome will become synonymous with freedom, even more so than we are now.
Nökers, Rome IS freedom. This policy IS freedom. The Whites have the best policy.""

Nikephorios doesn't even try to hide disgust on his face. Mongol speaking against slavery in the Senate? Outrageous.

- The matter of slavery is not subject of this Session. I understand of course that the recent Mamluke rebellion gives you hope to spare your kin their fate but you should remember how this revolt ended. How many thousands had to die before we put the douloi back in chains where they belong? You seem to love citing the Holy Bible, twisting its words for your own use. Didn't Saint Paul the Apostle himself said in letter to Ephesians, chapter 6 verse 5, these words: “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear, trembling, and sincerity “? – Nikephoros makes a dismissive gesture towards Azzizid - Friends of slaves are not welcome here. I advise you to stay on topic.

{{ Remember that the debate ends in 1,5 hour. }}
 

ParrotGuy

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{{It's like a hamster wheel- I read a page, another appears :p}}
 
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tunapirate

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Senator Pau de Mallorca, Red Deme

For what it is worth, Senators Pylaeus and Serapis, with the silence of Taurinus I find myself in support of your own proposal. If I had the capability I assure you I would have supported it. Senator Taurinus' proposal to increase our recruitment solves a problem that does not exist; as our armies do not suffer from lack of volunteers.
 

ThetrueColt

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Senator Decius Pylaeus

"Honorable senators, there is no need to deadlock the process of proposing policies. There is still a way out: Do you remember when I exposed a loophole in the regularities earlier? If Senator Arrius chooses to go forward in expressing support for our proposal whilst expecting the white demes to support the blue proposal, we can still let the senators decide which policy is worthier of being enacted by vote, just like in ancient Roman times!"


To the whites, he speaks:
"My friends, I know I haven't consulted you before making this proposal, but time is of the essence and drastic times call for drastic measures. Alexios, Titos would you agree to this test of worth for the senate at large?"


To everyone, he continues:
"Esteemed senator de Mallorca, it is a rare and good sign to see that there are still honourable members among the ranks of the reds. I appreciate your support and your voice of reason."


{{
{{It's like a hamster wheel- I read a page, another appears :p}}

And you even help by adding more posts :D }}
 

varetta

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Senator Giacomo Este Ravenna of the Red Demes:

Would that we had chosen Scipion, at least he speaks up.

He stands. "Our leader's ineptitude disgusts me. When even the scions of horselords show sense in word and deed yet good Romans stand silent.. I do not know if it is more tragedy or farce. To the honorable senator Scipion, I urge you to stand firm on your original proposal, as I find it wholly agreeable... you do not need to deal with the Blue Demes. If nothing else the maintenance of our old policy would be beneficial.
I must also echo those who question the wisdom of an expedition to Cathay. Pisa stands weak and rich right next to our borders! Our economy falters, malcontents simmer, and they want to spend more gold on distant ventures?! Put our own house to order first, or at least focus on a proven enemy!"

Senator Aetius Scipion:


Dear friend, dear red senators. And others.

I feel offensive your words over our demes and your...suggestion of reducing the size of the Imperial Army in which my family has served during centuries.

But for the pace of the Empire, and as our colleague Giacomo as smartly suggested, I will support and recommend Senator Taurinus to support White proposition. We cannot refuse this proposition as we cannot ignore smart words just because they come from a retarded.


((I was going to play Aetius as responsible if elected leader, but the lack of action from our leader as leaded me to play teh Old Angry senator play. And I love it :p ))
 

TheAnguishedOne

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Senator Marcus Arrius

We are out of time. I had hoped to hear from some of my fellow Blue Demes before doing so, but... Senator Serapis. I ask to officially announce your new proposal, the compromise you suggested to me. Do so and I will declare my support. However, if I hear one more slight from the White Demes, one more implication that the Blues are only selfish... Our business will be over.