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{{ When you think about it, Pisa is a bit the New Carthage}}
{{Hardly, Carthage was far more powerful and richer than Pisa. I would think Pisa is more a kin to the Kingdom of Magna Gracea in wealth and power. However if you mean in the terms of Hatred by Rome, then yes.}}
{{ Look at the income : it has nearly as much income as a Justinian sized Byzantine Empire so it definitely richer than Carthage IMO. But in terms of raw power then yes it does not compare
}}
Senator Azizid watched quietly through slanted eyes at the other Roman Senators, who seemed to be fixed on him. He was used to this sort of attitude when he wasn't back home. Trying to remember the advice of his fellow Blue men, he repeated the rule again to himself as he pushed his weight onto his cane and stood up. Soldiers, not Horde. Imperior, not Khagan Angeloi. He hoped and prayed that he was using the right word for the Emperor. Imperior would make sense, given that Rome is an Imperium, right? Dusting the dirt from outside the streets off his Deel, he cleared his throat and began.
"President, fellow Roman Nökers, brothers in Yesüs Khristed, it is truly the honor of a lifetime to stand in the great halls of the Roman Khuraltai and advise the great, Holy Imperior, God's Regent on the earth, on matter relating to the betterment of Rome, the Imperium, my home. My name is Bubba Azizid, Son of Senator Markosi, of House Azizid. In my home in eastern Rome, my House is called the Evangelizers of the Steppe and the Bridge to Khristed. Those of you hailing from the east may be familiar with me and my family. We have been Romans for centuries, first finding the light when the former Emir of Gallilee, Agath Azizid, abandoned the lies of the demon Tenger and turned to Christ. My oldest brother is an Orthodox archbishop in far eastern Armenia and my youngest brother a Stavrophore monk. We Azizids have been the catylysts for leading tens of thousands of wayward Mongoloid men, conquered by the benovolence of the Imperium, to turn away from darkness and worship of the demon Tenger and embrace the True Faith. Tens of thousands of Mongoloids, once hostile to our rule, now celebrate it and pray to the same Icons and revere the same men, Saint Markos included. Before you think to execute me for my speech, consider my origin: if you hanged me for how I talk, you'd have to hang every Roman east of Anatolia!"
He smiled.
"It is the greatest pride and joy of my family to see so many fellow Mongoloids to turn from Satan and embrace the truth. Many of my family have been assasinated by the evil Lords of Tenger, because they were spreading the Gospel effectively. Mongoloid converts have naturalized and assimilated and are now Romans, charging their horses into battle for the Imperium! Just as the Khanate of Moldavia embraced the light so have they, and I implore you that, before you judge me because my eyes are thin or my speech is thickly accented, remember that God loves us all and that angels celebrate every man who turns to Christ. Men of the Red Khural, surely you have seen the effectivness my people have lent to the calvary of the great soldies of Rome! Rome has learned and adapted from eastern Roman and Moldavian calvary and not only match, but exceed the lost souls of Mongolyn Ezent Güren at war, by land and sea."
He paused.
"My family was recognized by the Holy Imperior himself for its many lifetimes of service to Rome and the True Faith. Those whose hearts are filled with bitterness towards me and the converts to the True Faith must ask themselves: if House Azizid has received the blessing of the Angeloi themselves, does that not make them, in every facet, a true Roman? I look across these halls and see men of many origins, but we are all still Romans. We all serve the True Faith and we all, in a moment's notice, would die for the Imperium. We live to serve Rome and we owe our very existence to the Angeloi. We don't say 'the Angeloi Protect' for nothing."
Smiling warmly, Bubba then addressed the matters at hand.
Bubba turned to face Senator Rashid, nodding as he did.
"Nöker, your supsicion is completely right. The Mongolyn Ezent Güren do not forget. They hate Rome for stealing what they wrongly claim is theirs, though theirs it is not. My homeland swirls with rumors that they are building up their strength to retake rightful Roman soil, from the Holy Land to Crimea. I concur that we will one day see the lost souls of Mongolyn Ezent Güren turn on their superiors, and the false 'khagan', though a Khagan he is not, will take another crack at the Imperium. We should take caution
-but do not call Tenger a god, Senator Rashid, for he is chötgör, a demon, one in service of Satan. Though Tenger does not thirst for the blood of innocents to the extent of the soulless Xenoi's chötgör, he has no allegiance but to the Evil One and all he craves is death. To follow Tenger is to follow the Evil One. That is why my family has made it their life's work to win the hearts and minds of all lost sheep who see Tenger not as a chötgör, but as a god. Mongoloids who follow the True Faith renounce their loyalties to Mongolyn Ezent Güren, because he is a foolish Khan, not the Khagan. and all he brings is lies, hate, and death."
The Mongoloid turned to his fellow Blues, his friends, and smiled.
"The Blue Khural debated the matters of Pisa. We all agree that they need to be punished and their government cleansed of Xenoi. The Pisans are consumed by an evil, corrupt government in bed with Satan, and they toil under the wicked Doge in vain. I made the suggestion that, instead of dismantling and annexing Pisa full stop into the Imperium, we simply go in, plunder their gold, and execute the entire Pisan government. We will render Pisa as a Otogus bo'ol, a vassal. We will subjugate Pisa as an Orthodox Merchant Republic, and appoint the Doge and the new Merchant Families, ensuring that any contact with the Xenoi monsters is purged in fire.
Bubba smiled widely as he repeated what he thought was the best idea he ever came up with.
"Why should we cleanse and convert the Pisan government but maintain the Merchant Republic structure? Simple! A Doge gives more tribute. If we annex Pisa fully, we'd have to dismantle their merchant efficiency into new districts. If we keep the Merchant Republic infrastructure in place, a vassalized, cleanesed, and Roman Pisa could resume its monetary brilliance not for Xenoi and blasphemers, but for us, for Rome."
Bubba paused to let that sink in.
"Some say that Pisa should be attacked now and vassalized immediately. Others say that we should wait until we are at good strength and strike Pisa when their guard is down. I, personally, think that only the Imperior should decide when to attack Pisa, but if I had to say, I'd say we go now while they are weak. Vassalizing Pisa would be a hige monetary gain for the Imperium.
The most important duty we in the Imperium have is to honor our debts. I believe that should be prioritized and our debts satisfied."
He smiled.
"President, I thank you for allowing me to speak my mind, and I most of all thank the Imperior for his blessing on my House. Hopefully, my voice, alongside all the other Roman patriots who are trusted by the Angeloi, will help the Imperium reach its full potential and beat back the Xenoi chötgör and the vile chötgör, Tenger. Truly, the Angeloi protect."
Bubba sat back down in his chair. Hopefully, he would leave this chamber with friends, not enemies.
{ OOC: Bubba's first language isn't Latin or Greek, so he has trouble with some Greek words. Using another language is hardly a crime or in need of arresting the Senator. Would you execute someone for speaking Italian, too? The Emperor knew full well of the nature of House Azizid and, in his great wisdom, granted them Senatorial status anyway. His family has been vetted and they have helped convert tens of thousands of Mongols to the True Faith. I understand that racism and xenophobia is rampant in this world, but the Azizids have been Roman and Christian for centuries and have a reputation in the east, with two Azizids venerated locally. }
"President, fellow Roman Nökers, brothers in Yesüs Khristed, it is truly the honor of a lifetime to stand in the great halls of the Roman Khuraltai and advise the great, Holy Imperior, God's Regent on the earth, on matter relating to the betterment of Rome, the Imperium, my home. My name is Bubba Azizid, Son of Senator Markosi, of House Azizid. In my home in eastern Rome, my House is called the Evangelizers of the Steppe and the Bridge to Khristed. Those of you hailing from the east may be familiar with me and my family. We have been Romans for centuries, first finding the light when the former Emir of Gallilee, Agath Azizid, abandoned the lies of the demon Tenger and turned to Christ. My oldest brother is an Orthodox archbishop in far eastern Armenia and my youngest brother a Stavrophore monk. We Azizids have been the catylysts for leading tens of thousands of wayward Mongoloid men, conquered by the benovolence of the Imperium, to turn away from darkness and worship of the demon Tenger and embrace the True Faith. Tens of thousands of Mongoloids, once hostile to our rule, now celebrate it and pray to the same Icons and revere the same men, Saint Markos included. Before you think to execute me for my speech, consider my origin: if you hanged me for how I talk, you'd have to hang every Roman east of Anatolia!"
He smiled.
"It is the greatest pride and joy of my family to see so many fellow Mongoloids to turn from Satan and embrace the truth. Many of my family have been assasinated by the evil Lords of Tenger, because they were spreading the Gospel effectively. Mongoloid converts have naturalized and assimilated and are now Romans, charging their horses into battle for the Imperium! Just as the Khanate of Moldavia embraced the light so have they, and I implore you that, before you judge me because my eyes are thin or my speech is thickly accented, remember that God loves us all and that angels celebrate every man who turns to Christ. Men of the Red Khural, surely you have seen the effectivness my people have lent to the calvary of the great soldies of Rome! Rome has learned and adapted from eastern Roman and Moldavian calvary and not only match, but exceed the lost souls of Mongolyn Ezent Güren at war, by land and sea."
He paused.
"My family was recognized by the Holy Imperior himself for its many lifetimes of service to Rome and the True Faith. Those whose hearts are filled with bitterness towards me and the converts to the True Faith must ask themselves: if House Azizid has received the blessing of the Angeloi themselves, does that not make them, in every facet, a true Roman? I look across these halls and see men of many origins, but we are all still Romans. We all serve the True Faith and we all, in a moment's notice, would die for the Imperium. We live to serve Rome and we owe our very existence to the Angeloi. We don't say 'the Angeloi Protect' for nothing."
Smiling warmly, Bubba then addressed the matters at hand.
Bubba turned to face Senator Rashid, nodding as he did.
"Nöker, your supsicion is completely right. The Mongolyn Ezent Güren do not forget. They hate Rome for stealing what they wrongly claim is theirs, though theirs it is not. My homeland swirls with rumors that they are building up their strength to retake rightful Roman soil, from the Holy Land to Crimea. I concur that we will one day see the lost souls of Mongolyn Ezent Güren turn on their superiors, and the false 'khagan', though a Khagan he is not, will take another crack at the Imperium. We should take caution
-but do not call Tenger a god, Senator Rashid, for he is chötgör, a demon, one in service of Satan. Though Tenger does not thirst for the blood of innocents to the extent of the soulless Xenoi's chötgör, he has no allegiance but to the Evil One and all he craves is death. To follow Tenger is to follow the Evil One. That is why my family has made it their life's work to win the hearts and minds of all lost sheep who see Tenger not as a chötgör, but as a god. Mongoloids who follow the True Faith renounce their loyalties to Mongolyn Ezent Güren, because he is a foolish Khan, not the Khagan. and all he brings is lies, hate, and death."
The Mongoloid turned to his fellow Blues, his friends, and smiled.
"The Blue Khural debated the matters of Pisa. We all agree that they need to be punished and their government cleansed of Xenoi. The Pisans are consumed by an evil, corrupt government in bed with Satan, and they toil under the wicked Doge in vain. I made the suggestion that, instead of dismantling and annexing Pisa full stop into the Imperium, we simply go in, plunder their gold, and execute the entire Pisan government. We will render Pisa as a Otogus bo'ol, a vassal. We will subjugate Pisa as an Orthodox Merchant Republic, and appoint the Doge and the new Merchant Families, ensuring that any contact with the Xenoi monsters is purged in fire.
Bubba smiled widely as he repeated what he thought was the best idea he ever came up with.
"Why should we cleanse and convert the Pisan government but maintain the Merchant Republic structure? Simple! A Doge gives more tribute. If we annex Pisa fully, we'd have to dismantle their merchant efficiency into new districts. If we keep the Merchant Republic infrastructure in place, a vassalized, cleanesed, and Roman Pisa could resume its monetary brilliance not for Xenoi and blasphemers, but for us, for Rome."
Bubba paused to let that sink in.
"Some say that Pisa should be attacked now and vassalized immediately. Others say that we should wait until we are at good strength and strike Pisa when their guard is down. I, personally, think that only the Imperior should decide when to attack Pisa, but if I had to say, I'd say we go now while they are weak. Vassalizing Pisa would be a hige monetary gain for the Imperium.
The most important duty we in the Imperium have is to honor our debts. I believe that should be prioritized and our debts satisfied."
He smiled.
"President, I thank you for allowing me to speak my mind, and I most of all thank the Imperior for his blessing on my House. Hopefully, my voice, alongside all the other Roman patriots who are trusted by the Angeloi, will help the Imperium reach its full potential and beat back the Xenoi chötgör and the vile chötgör, Tenger. Truly, the Angeloi protect."
Bubba sat back down in his chair. Hopefully, he would leave this chamber with friends, not enemies.
{ OOC: Bubba's first language isn't Latin or Greek, so he has trouble with some Greek words. Using another language is hardly a crime or in need of arresting the Senator. Would you execute someone for speaking Italian, too? The Emperor knew full well of the nature of House Azizid and, in his great wisdom, granted them Senatorial status anyway. His family has been vetted and they have helped convert tens of thousands of Mongols to the True Faith. I understand that racism and xenophobia is rampant in this world, but the Azizids have been Roman and Christian for centuries and have a reputation in the east, with two Azizids venerated locally. }
Senator Marcus Arrius
Senator Azizid is right. If we are to attack Pisa, now is best. The Xenoi are dealing with rebels and still have a treaty with the Imperium. Our enemies in the East are either crumbling or are focusing elsewhere. Pisa has no friends. Making Pisa our puppet, our vassal... Surely some of the brightest minds in the Imperium can see the benefits of this.
Senator Azizid is right. If we are to attack Pisa, now is best. The Xenoi are dealing with rebels and still have a treaty with the Imperium. Our enemies in the East are either crumbling or are focusing elsewhere. Pisa has no friends. Making Pisa our puppet, our vassal... Surely some of the brightest minds in the Imperium can see the benefits of this.
- 2
{ OOC: @CzokletMuss , I'd like to restate that making Pisa a permanent vassal is far better and more lucrative than annexing or even integrating them. }
Senator Alexandros Raoul :
"It seems that my Blue friends have eventually regained their minds, a sight I welcome. However, I shall warn you against advocating the vassalization of Pisa. To do so we'll need to utterly crush them, pursuing them in the hinterlands of Corsica and Sardinia. I need not to warn you that it will cost many Roman lives for these islands are fortified with walls of men and nature alike. We want a quick war, a war that will give us plunder beyond our hopes, not one that will plunge the Imperium into deeper problems... "
"It seems that my Blue friends have eventually regained their minds, a sight I welcome. However, I shall warn you against advocating the vassalization of Pisa. To do so we'll need to utterly crush them, pursuing them in the hinterlands of Corsica and Sardinia. I need not to warn you that it will cost many Roman lives for these islands are fortified with walls of men and nature alike. We want a quick war, a war that will give us plunder beyond our hopes, not one that will plunge the Imperium into deeper problems... "
Senator Marcello Giovanni di Capponi:
I am ashamed to see such clambering for war against the Pisans. I am ashamed to see my wisdom lost in the bickering and spite of the Senate. Did my arguments truly mean nothing? Are our dreams of gold and conquest no higher than that of the Xenoi or Mongols? They attacked friend, ally, foe, whomever they needed to gain more land, more trade, more taxes, more power. We are not that. The Imperium is the protector of Christendom, not a opportunistic warrior. If we are to fight Pisa's trade, Pisa's wealth, let us fight them with our trade fleets, let us fight them with our merchants, let us fight them in a war without blood, without killing, without the ravaging of land, perhaps the first conflict resolved in peace that Europe has seen in a long time. Let us show the Pisans what sort of merchant sons our own imperial republics can breed! The Imperium shall be the gleaming city on the hill, we will show the world that the men and women of the Imperium are humans, not beasts. For each Gree- no, Roman life lost in battle should be against the barbarian hordes. May each Roman life lost at home be the peaceful departure of a man content in the knowledge that his actions made the Imperium better. May each Roman life lost abroad be in the name of diplomacy, not espionage or sabotage. Should I stand alone, or stand with support, I ask the Senators to not look at war with Pisa as another conquest, another Xenoi slain, for they, however opposed we may be, are an Orthodox realm. The same rules do not apply. St. Markos save the Empire, and St. Markos save the Serene Republic...
I am ashamed to see such clambering for war against the Pisans. I am ashamed to see my wisdom lost in the bickering and spite of the Senate. Did my arguments truly mean nothing? Are our dreams of gold and conquest no higher than that of the Xenoi or Mongols? They attacked friend, ally, foe, whomever they needed to gain more land, more trade, more taxes, more power. We are not that. The Imperium is the protector of Christendom, not a opportunistic warrior. If we are to fight Pisa's trade, Pisa's wealth, let us fight them with our trade fleets, let us fight them with our merchants, let us fight them in a war without blood, without killing, without the ravaging of land, perhaps the first conflict resolved in peace that Europe has seen in a long time. Let us show the Pisans what sort of merchant sons our own imperial republics can breed! The Imperium shall be the gleaming city on the hill, we will show the world that the men and women of the Imperium are humans, not beasts. For each Gree- no, Roman life lost in battle should be against the barbarian hordes. May each Roman life lost at home be the peaceful departure of a man content in the knowledge that his actions made the Imperium better. May each Roman life lost abroad be in the name of diplomacy, not espionage or sabotage. Should I stand alone, or stand with support, I ask the Senators to not look at war with Pisa as another conquest, another Xenoi slain, for they, however opposed we may be, are an Orthodox realm. The same rules do not apply. St. Markos save the Empire, and St. Markos save the Serene Republic...
{{Don't vassals only pay tax income, and gray out the option to transfer trade power? Trade's our big moeny maker from Pisa, that and war reps}}
Senator Quintus Ovidius Mojmirid
Quintus stands and addresses the senate, however his attention is heavily focused on Senator Marcello Giovanni di Capponi. "Senator Marcello, I must admit that was quite an impassioned speech. Your passion, and fervor, nearly had me up clapping for you, nearly. However, I am afraid you speak from emotion rather than logic. While it is admirable to have our own merchants fight head to head with Pisa's, it is unlikely we will succeed, based purely upon the knowledge that our economy, for how large our nation is, is weak. I am certain that should we go to a trade war with Pisa, we will be on the loosing end and be forced to pay even more money that we don't have. I hate to sound like a bird, constantly calling out the same song, but I feel it would be in our best interests at this point to wait. Bide our time, repair our economy, open the markets and trade to the Far East, and Cathay, and once our economy is strong, and well suited to handle itself during times of war, we strike. Like a viper, we will lie in wait until our opponents have been lulled unto a false sense of security, only to launch from the shadows and tear them down. I will not lie, I do not approve of direct confrontation, but I feel the use of spies and insurgents in Pisa would be beneficial, that is assuming, of course, that any of my noble senators do not wish for exploration, and trade, of Cathay. "
Quintus returns to his seat, while muttering under his breath. *Cathay will be the savior of Rome*
Quintus stands and addresses the senate, however his attention is heavily focused on Senator Marcello Giovanni di Capponi. "Senator Marcello, I must admit that was quite an impassioned speech. Your passion, and fervor, nearly had me up clapping for you, nearly. However, I am afraid you speak from emotion rather than logic. While it is admirable to have our own merchants fight head to head with Pisa's, it is unlikely we will succeed, based purely upon the knowledge that our economy, for how large our nation is, is weak. I am certain that should we go to a trade war with Pisa, we will be on the loosing end and be forced to pay even more money that we don't have. I hate to sound like a bird, constantly calling out the same song, but I feel it would be in our best interests at this point to wait. Bide our time, repair our economy, open the markets and trade to the Far East, and Cathay, and once our economy is strong, and well suited to handle itself during times of war, we strike. Like a viper, we will lie in wait until our opponents have been lulled unto a false sense of security, only to launch from the shadows and tear them down. I will not lie, I do not approve of direct confrontation, but I feel the use of spies and insurgents in Pisa would be beneficial, that is assuming, of course, that any of my noble senators do not wish for exploration, and trade, of Cathay. "
Quintus returns to his seat, while muttering under his breath. *Cathay will be the savior of Rome*
Senator Maximos Wedrovander:
I must admit that all of this talk has not but led us into quite frankly unproductive circles. Surely if any thing has taught us these long years it is that all of the proposals of the emperor have the tendency to cost the Imperium more money and honestly we owe enough money to various sorts to claim that we owe more in a year than we can make in 3. That is nothing short of a shame. We, a body of men who claim to have enough knowledge, power, and money to understand reality, can't seem to advise the emperor how to balance a check book. At this time I am disinclined to support any action that would take up imperial resources than absolutely necessary especially war due how much we don't make. For not only are we in the red for due coins, we are also so far down into the dumps of the matter-of-factually everyday balance that it is purely ridiculous. I mean even if we fired half of the inner most council the emperor would go into the green. Even if at the end of the war we make them submit to payment all of those payments wouldn't be enough to pay a tenth of the amount under we are in every month. We must have the courage and the foresight to say one of the toughest words for a good general to say. No we can not do more at this time for we are stretched thin in every direction.
Also Senator Azizid we have no quarrel with good men of the empire. After barbarians come and are powerful and then fall to the greatness of the Imperium all the time. Really do not fear for your life, after all not a soul here is a complete decedent of the Romans whose empire we now stand for.
What color exactly is that sash of yours it isn't easy to tell from here.
Also to those who speak highly of some sort "grand empire" in the east described by some as Serica or Cathay may I remind you that they were the ones who helped drain our treasury the last time Rome was even near this size. They care only for themselves.
{{ Hey drucchi sorry that I sounded like I was telling you off I meant all that just to say what I knew off the top of my head. Also reminder for some of you guys don't forget to Italics your speech. And when you begin to talk have a to have a header/title with bolded letters so that you won't be kicked just a friendly reminder.}}
I must admit that all of this talk has not but led us into quite frankly unproductive circles. Surely if any thing has taught us these long years it is that all of the proposals of the emperor have the tendency to cost the Imperium more money and honestly we owe enough money to various sorts to claim that we owe more in a year than we can make in 3. That is nothing short of a shame. We, a body of men who claim to have enough knowledge, power, and money to understand reality, can't seem to advise the emperor how to balance a check book. At this time I am disinclined to support any action that would take up imperial resources than absolutely necessary especially war due how much we don't make. For not only are we in the red for due coins, we are also so far down into the dumps of the matter-of-factually everyday balance that it is purely ridiculous. I mean even if we fired half of the inner most council the emperor would go into the green. Even if at the end of the war we make them submit to payment all of those payments wouldn't be enough to pay a tenth of the amount under we are in every month. We must have the courage and the foresight to say one of the toughest words for a good general to say. No we can not do more at this time for we are stretched thin in every direction.
Also Senator Azizid we have no quarrel with good men of the empire. After barbarians come and are powerful and then fall to the greatness of the Imperium all the time. Really do not fear for your life, after all not a soul here is a complete decedent of the Romans whose empire we now stand for.
What color exactly is that sash of yours it isn't easy to tell from here.
Also to those who speak highly of some sort "grand empire" in the east described by some as Serica or Cathay may I remind you that they were the ones who helped drain our treasury the last time Rome was even near this size. They care only for themselves.
{{ Hey drucchi sorry that I sounded like I was telling you off I meant all that just to say what I knew off the top of my head. Also reminder for some of you guys don't forget to Italics your speech. And when you begin to talk have a to have a header/title with bolded letters so that you won't be kicked just a friendly reminder.}}
Titos Livios Melissenos
*Titos Livios, with 74 the eldest men in the hall sits mostly quiet on his place. All this young people. In particular die Capponi with his energy, conviction and big mouth and Azizid, whose foreign heritage, more distinct than of every other senator, maybe a sign of changes and things to come, if his displayed pride would not get the better of him. Yes, Titos feels more old than usual with all this faces around. Still he rises from his seat.*
While esteemed di Capponi doesn't speak for all Whites in his reasons for peace with Pisa in the near future, he does speak so for many in the fact that their should be peace at the moment. Some of you say, that Pisa is weak and we should conquer or make them puppets immediately.
But we should be honest to our self: The Empire isn't in best shape either.
*He doesn't even wait for protest to arise.*
Sure, our armies are stronger as ever, probably the strongest around the Mare Nostrum at this point. Our navy has undergone serious reforms and is better than it was thirty years ago. But I ask you: Will this stay this way, if we continue our ways without change? You see an opportunity to attack Pisa. Afterward you will see and opportunity to attack the Horde. Or the Realm of Lithuania. Maybe one of the realms on the isles of Britannia, reclaiming the ruins of Hadrians Wall or something like that. And all while our coffers grow more empty, for plunder alone will not fill them, the imperial debts more higher, since tributes alone will not pay them forever.
I say that we first need to reform ourself. We need to strengthen the imperial economy, strengthen the domestic incomes of the treasury and tighten the expenses or at least make spending more efficient so money doesn't fall victim to corruption. And for all that, we need peace, at least for a few years.
Pisa delenda est, as esteemed Senator Raoul said, but I might add: Roma uno die aedificata non est.
*Titos Livios, with 74 the eldest men in the hall sits mostly quiet on his place. All this young people. In particular die Capponi with his energy, conviction and big mouth and Azizid, whose foreign heritage, more distinct than of every other senator, maybe a sign of changes and things to come, if his displayed pride would not get the better of him. Yes, Titos feels more old than usual with all this faces around. Still he rises from his seat.*
While esteemed di Capponi doesn't speak for all Whites in his reasons for peace with Pisa in the near future, he does speak so for many in the fact that their should be peace at the moment. Some of you say, that Pisa is weak and we should conquer or make them puppets immediately.
But we should be honest to our self: The Empire isn't in best shape either.
*He doesn't even wait for protest to arise.*
Sure, our armies are stronger as ever, probably the strongest around the Mare Nostrum at this point. Our navy has undergone serious reforms and is better than it was thirty years ago. But I ask you: Will this stay this way, if we continue our ways without change? You see an opportunity to attack Pisa. Afterward you will see and opportunity to attack the Horde. Or the Realm of Lithuania. Maybe one of the realms on the isles of Britannia, reclaiming the ruins of Hadrians Wall or something like that. And all while our coffers grow more empty, for plunder alone will not fill them, the imperial debts more higher, since tributes alone will not pay them forever.
I say that we first need to reform ourself. We need to strengthen the imperial economy, strengthen the domestic incomes of the treasury and tighten the expenses or at least make spending more efficient so money doesn't fall victim to corruption. And for all that, we need peace, at least for a few years.
Pisa delenda est, as esteemed Senator Raoul said, but I might add: Roma uno die aedificata non est.
Senator Decius Pylaeus
Wearing the same attire as during the faction meeting, Decius let the debate start without putting his opinion out in the open as one of the primum voces. So far, only the matter of Pisa and Serica were brought up. He decided to (mostly) keep it that way for now and rose to speak up.
"The matter of Pisa is delicate. A full-scale war to cast them into submission would be another strain on Imperial resources that we do not have. I am still not sure whether a quick raid on their worldly posessions will be more beneficial than not going to war. I will gladly listen to the opinions of additional senators on this matter.
Another expedition into the unknown lands will bring new revelations and valuable information for the Imperium, that much is for sure. However, such expeditions are costly and the one thing we do not have as of now is money. We need to save every hyperpyrron we can if we want to save our economy from a horrendous collapse. This issue is accompanied by the question of whether we should send Javier Espinosa to Serica to establish diplomatical relations. I do not know how familar you are with the current state of affairs, but our diplomats have their hands more than full already. We are in no position to form treaties with an unknown realm because we do not have enough diplomats for this kind of endeaour."
{{
We are already above our relations limit, another pointless alliance will get us nowhere - or does anyone actually believe that the Chinese will send soldiers over to win wars against the Xenoi?
You have done a fine job imo. No heretical terms used for the Basileus or the army, yet you still managed to include a few Mongolian terms. Keep in mind that it is a fine line - so far you have managed it admirably.
Also, speaking Italian is completely different from Mongolian. Italia is the cradle of Rome and thus speaking Italian (the non-Pisan dialect) should always be fine. The horse-riding barbarians on the other hand are one of the mortal enemies of the Imperium in this grimdark (!) setting. If someone uses too much Mongolian while officially representing Imperial authority, my character would see that as treason to the Autokrator and a reason for execution.
You brought up the argument that everyone in the easternmost provinces should be executed if we were to judge you - but I think you mistake the position your senator is in. There is a grave difference between being a low-born citizen of the Imperium in underdeveloped border provinces and serving the Imperium as a noble senator in the Queen of cities, the epitome of Imperial might. Actions that would be shrugged of at another place for a person of a different social status can get you killed in the senate, for there is a display of respect and a set of customs that have to be followed in the halls of magnaura.
The fact that the Basileus granted you senatorial status is not as much of a get-out-of-the-Genghis-corner-card as it appears to be. The autokrator has an unsurmountable lot of duties to fulfill, appointing a new senator merely means he signed a form to make things official. Keep in mind that all senators represent middle-class aristoi at best, our families are nowhere near important enough for the Imperium to have the leader of the realm be aware of our more or less detailed family backgrounds. That being said, you can of course try to sell your appointment as a senator in such a way
Lastly, if your family has been that closely tied to the church for centuries, your command of Latin and Greek should be quite adequate, since the church is the primary drive for education in the Imperium. And surely it would educate its most valuable missionaries in the border regions. Keeping your accent and wrong words or lack of understanding/wrong pronounciation is completely fine, using straight up horse-lord terms for central institutions of the Imperium is not (in my opinion).
}}
Wearing the same attire as during the faction meeting, Decius let the debate start without putting his opinion out in the open as one of the primum voces. So far, only the matter of Pisa and Serica were brought up. He decided to (mostly) keep it that way for now and rose to speak up.
"The matter of Pisa is delicate. A full-scale war to cast them into submission would be another strain on Imperial resources that we do not have. I am still not sure whether a quick raid on their worldly posessions will be more beneficial than not going to war. I will gladly listen to the opinions of additional senators on this matter.
Another expedition into the unknown lands will bring new revelations and valuable information for the Imperium, that much is for sure. However, such expeditions are costly and the one thing we do not have as of now is money. We need to save every hyperpyrron we can if we want to save our economy from a horrendous collapse. This issue is accompanied by the question of whether we should send Javier Espinosa to Serica to establish diplomatical relations. I do not know how familar you are with the current state of affairs, but our diplomats have their hands more than full already. We are in no position to form treaties with an unknown realm because we do not have enough diplomats for this kind of endeaour."
{{
We are already above our relations limit, another pointless alliance will get us nowhere - or does anyone actually believe that the Chinese will send soldiers over to win wars against the Xenoi?
You have done a fine job imo. No heretical terms used for the Basileus or the army, yet you still managed to include a few Mongolian terms. Keep in mind that it is a fine line - so far you have managed it admirably.
Also, speaking Italian is completely different from Mongolian. Italia is the cradle of Rome and thus speaking Italian (the non-Pisan dialect) should always be fine. The horse-riding barbarians on the other hand are one of the mortal enemies of the Imperium in this grimdark (!) setting. If someone uses too much Mongolian while officially representing Imperial authority, my character would see that as treason to the Autokrator and a reason for execution.
You brought up the argument that everyone in the easternmost provinces should be executed if we were to judge you - but I think you mistake the position your senator is in. There is a grave difference between being a low-born citizen of the Imperium in underdeveloped border provinces and serving the Imperium as a noble senator in the Queen of cities, the epitome of Imperial might. Actions that would be shrugged of at another place for a person of a different social status can get you killed in the senate, for there is a display of respect and a set of customs that have to be followed in the halls of magnaura.
The fact that the Basileus granted you senatorial status is not as much of a get-out-of-the-Genghis-corner-card as it appears to be. The autokrator has an unsurmountable lot of duties to fulfill, appointing a new senator merely means he signed a form to make things official. Keep in mind that all senators represent middle-class aristoi at best, our families are nowhere near important enough for the Imperium to have the leader of the realm be aware of our more or less detailed family backgrounds. That being said, you can of course try to sell your appointment as a senator in such a way
Lastly, if your family has been that closely tied to the church for centuries, your command of Latin and Greek should be quite adequate, since the church is the primary drive for education in the Imperium. And surely it would educate its most valuable missionaries in the border regions. Keeping your accent and wrong words or lack of understanding/wrong pronounciation is completely fine, using straight up horse-lord terms for central institutions of the Imperium is not (in my opinion).
}}
Senator Alexandros Raoul :
"Senators, I'll just point out that even now the state is losing money as we speak. The only way to save money is either to reduce the costs or to add new riches. The first despite being mentionned several times has not seen clear proposals yet while the second will only come from new wars. Keep in mind that the status quo is not an option"
"Senators, I'll just point out that even now the state is losing money as we speak. The only way to save money is either to reduce the costs or to add new riches. The first despite being mentionned several times has not seen clear proposals yet while the second will only come from new wars. Keep in mind that the status quo is not an option"
Senator Decius Pylaeus
*Much to Decius' surprise, the blue Raoul appears to utter something else than nonsensical rants. Thinking to himself, he ponders: "Is this a trap? Will their greed be partially sated by waging war on Pisa?" It seems logical that a quick strike against Pisa to gain money and maybe a single province will bring more than it will cost. However, supporting Raoul's statement means opposing the view of the white demes. Decius decides to wait for Speaker Serapis before he can openly declare support for war on Pisa.*
*Much to Decius' surprise, the blue Raoul appears to utter something else than nonsensical rants. Thinking to himself, he ponders: "Is this a trap? Will their greed be partially sated by waging war on Pisa?" It seems logical that a quick strike against Pisa to gain money and maybe a single province will bring more than it will cost. However, supporting Raoul's statement means opposing the view of the white demes. Decius decides to wait for Speaker Serapis before he can openly declare support for war on Pisa.*
{{ @TurtleShroom I say continue to speak in Mongolian, we need to hear "God wills it !" or it won't be a true Senate Session }}
}}
{{ There are no relics, icons or statues in Magnaura. BTW this is how Magnaura looks like:
Source: http://www.byzantium1200.com/senato.html
Not really - "oeconomia" is a Greek word
}}- 2
Senator Marcus Arrius
Senator Pylaeus, no one in the Blue Demes disagrees with you that the Imperium's economy must be helped; that is why people are so conflicted on what to do with Pisa. Some believe a war would help our economy, others believe we must leave them alone. However, I stand firm on the funding of the expedition. All previous expeditions funded by the Imperium have been worth the cost a dozen times over. As for Serica... we lack information. I wish to make them an ally because we do not know how powerful they are, and I do not want another enormous empire to hate the Imperium.
Senator Pylaeus, no one in the Blue Demes disagrees with you that the Imperium's economy must be helped; that is why people are so conflicted on what to do with Pisa. Some believe a war would help our economy, others believe we must leave them alone. However, I stand firm on the funding of the expedition. All previous expeditions funded by the Imperium have been worth the cost a dozen times over. As for Serica... we lack information. I wish to make them an ally because we do not know how powerful they are, and I do not want another enormous empire to hate the Imperium.
- 1
President of the Senate Nikephoros Dalassenos:
- Life and death in service of the Throne is a reward in and of itself, senator. Save your remarks for your superior in the Army, if he wishes to listen to them.
Admittedly, the savage is good with words despite his lowly origin. Still, if one of his Mongolian subjects claimed to be equal with true Romaioi he would have him whipped. Equal, ha! Amusing. Nikephoros nods toward one of the eunuchs to bring him some wine mixed with water.
- Aye, the Angeloi protect and a man serve, each in his own way. I assume you are familiar with „Politikos” written by the Philosophos. You must know then that great Aristoteles himself said explicitly: „For that some should rule, and others be ruled is a thing, not only necessary, but expedient; from the hour of their birth, some are marked out for subjection, others for rule.” - He takes a sip from the chalice given to him by the eunuch - The Imperium is based on the sacred hierarchy created by Almighty God and basked in the light of the Holy Spirit. We are all parts of the Divine Order, from the blessed Autokrator as God's Regent on Earth, through the great Houses, aristoi and common citizens… - Nikephoros rises his chalice to senator Azzizid - …to the lowest slave. Remember this, Romaios.
He sips from the chalice again. This may be more entertaining than he thought.
Nikephoros rises his right eyebrow. Do the little birds have the courage to demand something from him?
- Life and death in service of the Throne is a reward in and of itself, senator. Save your remarks for your superior in the Army, if he wishes to listen to them.
Admittedly, the savage is good with words despite his lowly origin. Still, if one of his Mongolian subjects claimed to be equal with true Romaioi he would have him whipped. Equal, ha! Amusing. Nikephoros nods toward one of the eunuchs to bring him some wine mixed with water.
- Aye, the Angeloi protect and a man serve, each in his own way. I assume you are familiar with „Politikos” written by the Philosophos. You must know then that great Aristoteles himself said explicitly: „For that some should rule, and others be ruled is a thing, not only necessary, but expedient; from the hour of their birth, some are marked out for subjection, others for rule.” - He takes a sip from the chalice given to him by the eunuch - The Imperium is based on the sacred hierarchy created by Almighty God and basked in the light of the Holy Spirit. We are all parts of the Divine Order, from the blessed Autokrator as God's Regent on Earth, through the great Houses, aristoi and common citizens… - Nikephoros rises his chalice to senator Azzizid - …to the lowest slave. Remember this, Romaios.
He sips from the chalice again. This may be more entertaining than he thought.