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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Enlil

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Senator Marcello Giovanni di Capponi:

Of course we should turn a blind eye to the actions of our brothers in the West. I felt like I, as expected, received some degree of support my Deme, as war against Pisa at this time is simply an unnecessary waste of Christian life. I simply could not bear to see sellswords and brigands turned upon the Italian people, however their past with the Imperium.
 
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CzokletMuss

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{{ Use italics while IC pls .}}
 

Attalus

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Senator Alexandros Raoul

"I see no "brothers" in the Pisans Senator Capponi. I think that you think good of them because they speak the same language as you but I think they deserve to pay for all the atrocities they commited against the Imperium, literally this time. It seems they put an insane amount of their forces in the Tyrrhenian islands. If we blockade Corsica and Sardinia then we just have to quickly invade the rest of their pesky state and victory will be swift and easy. Then we can eventually link our western provinces to the rest of the Imperium and show these Xenophiles who they really are, opportunists who can not match the Imperium. I am merely a simple servant of the Emperor and I don't know much about the state of our army so I'll leave the matter to our Red colleagues. I'll just point out that the occasion seems perfect : we haven't heard about the Timurids for a long time and their attention is East not West ; the Horde is weak ; the Xenoi will surely stick to the truce we negotiated : when will Pisa stands alone like this in the naer future ?"
 

varetta

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Senator Aetius Scipion:

Pisans friends? Have we gone crazy?

The only thing we should consider is how many will se use and how much will it cost. Nothing more.

...

But I am talking too much. I will wait for senator Taurinus for defending our point of view.

((I won't be able to write until tomorrow late))
 

BanishTheSpleen

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Senator Madhi ibn Tarek Rashid

Senator Raoul, what you say about the position of the eastern Demes is true. They have been silent-nay, prosperous-for many years now. I know this to be true, as my city of Rosetta has been thriving in accordance with the other port cities of the Levant. All is well, it seems, but one day there will be a reckoning. It is the nature of the Mongol, whether they worship their Sky-God or the False Prophet, to want the other, greener side of the grass. My father experienced the great wars with the Timurids of decades past, and someday it will be them on the offensive, bolstered by the land they have inevitably conquered in the east.

This is why our priority should be establishing diplomatic connections with this new rumored realm of Serica. If we preemptively establish an alliance with this most massive of realms, we ma be able to cow the Sons of Timur out of war-maybe permanently. The cities of the Levant and Aegyptus will rest easy for the first time in centuries, and we may be able to finally reduce the debt we have accrued.
 

Teutonic King

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{{ This is not a good way to start this Session but... You are all in the Senate right now, so you can't be in your study at the same time nor can you send letters to the Senators who are several feet from you. But let's ignore it this time - in the future please stick to the rules The rules are the same for everyone and if you break them again you will be banned from voting.}}
{{I understand where you are coming from. However I feel as though I am trapped in a Catch 22.:confused: My intention with the last post was to send the messages the day before the session. However I can rework it to be that I had a servant hand them to the representatives as they walked it. Okay, I will edit my first post to be in the Senate hall after I get home from work today, assuming that is okay.}}
 

CzokletMuss

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{{Nah, leave it be - let's forget about it and just move on, shall we? :) }}
 
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Enlil

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Senator Marcello Giovanni di Capponi:

Senator Rashid is correct! Though I am against exploration, an alliance with this vast realm will do more good for the Imperium than a pointless war. Truly the Emperor of that Eastern dominion would not accept an alliance from a power taking such aggressive warfare against its brothers in faith! How could their Emperor expect the Imperium to treat him, a pagan, with any more respect. The decision to wage war on Pisa was only to gain lands of Orthodox populations. In its time, this was an incredibly contorversial move! The wife of St. Markos himself, Basilissa Peksen spurned the Emperor for this act, and the blessed Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre refused to fight the Pisans. War against the Republic was not born from Xenoi deals or Catholic leanings, and the annals of St. Markos describe Pisa as "a truly Christian realm"! Indeed, Pisa was forced into the arms of the Xenoi, and renounced their dark gifts as soon as possible. During the age of St. Markos they turned on all their former allies and joined the Imperium among the ranks of the True Faithful! They expected protection from Constantinople, and were instead invaded. This invasion was necessary for the good of the Empire, I do not dispure St. Markos' decisions, but Pisa cannot simply compare to the Imperium in strength. I will admit this, as I am no heretic or romantic. But what they did what was necessary to survive without the Imperium's protection. And thanks to their efforts, Christianity still lives in Europe. At one time a member of the Imperial family even married a Pisan aristocrat! There are greater enemies to fight, and Pisa is not one of them! For the sake of the records, I will state that my views may not align with those of the White Demes, and I do not speak for the others. Those in other demes would naturally assume that I was the speaker, so I feel the need to clarify, but alas, such is the struggle of the great.
 

drucchi

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{{Czoklet a question, in the senate chambers are there any relics, icons, statues, etc of the great emperors of old like emperors in the CK2 part of this AAR who got the nickname the great? And another thing are the emperors of old classified as saints or similar figures, as in do they have relics that the lower levels of society could get their hands on and revere?}}
 
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KingJerkera

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Senator Maximos Wedrovander:
*Walking into the senate the Senator wore a very different attire than the last session. He wore wore leather armor over trousers, a lower tier cataphract officer parade dress minus a few embellishments, with his arms more exposed the senate could see upon the left arm were a few scares but his right he had lost two fingers and his arm was crisscross with the scares of enemy blades. He came with a limp today not evidenced in the faction meeting and when asked about it from a guard he replied that he had tumbled down some steps that morning.*

Senators I am thankful that I was able to make it today for this great institution of the Imperium. I have to agree with my fellow senator of the reds on getting an opinion of the situation from our leader and also I would like to discuss matters with the other reds to get their opinions as well for I have some feelings about how the reds are considered in these halls. I not surprised by Capponi's position to expect otherwise would be akin to asking water to flow uphill instead of down. However, I believe that in the red halls that we have discussed many a time about the fact that the economy should take much of our consideration as possible. So keep it in mind that we may, or may not, be approaching this crisis from that angle.

I however have a slight thing of consideration to ask of the our esteemed president. Nikephoros Dalassenos
as you know it is customary for the imperial army after a war to distribute forms of tribute and wealth amongst the army. It is also true that it can take the from of land, goods, gold, or slaves. Unfortunately the slave rebellions in the south were not treated thusly and several sergeants have made comments to me about it was most unfair that, since much of the recaptured slaves were put to death, it was as exhausting as a war without the benefit of booty for the men to see as a rightful reward. Is it possible for the those soldiers which participated in the rebellion to gain some means of reward for their hard work in putting down the rebellions of the south? Or is it out of place for this mere leader of cataphracts to comment on?

{{ Drucchi there is of course Markos the first who is consider equal to the apostles for now :confused:. So there are great emperors but I don't know what their status with relics are in this age. Also the bunch of fluff on the bottom is essentially fluff wise that I wanted to put in mostly to get my senator showing his house's semi-populist tendency to try to help others in a way to would increase their own strength and also to see if our senators could bring up fluff for consideration outside of senatorial considerations to be considered in the senate. So if it is too far very sorry, if not could there be a set up for it so we don't get too much shenanigans for it?}}
 

DKM

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drucchi

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{{ Drucchi there is of course Markos the first who is consider equal to the apostles for now :confused:. So there are great emperors but I don't know what their status with relics are in this age. Also the bunch of fluff on the bottom is essentially fluff wise that I wanted to put in mostly to get my senator showing his house's semi-populist tendency to try to help others in a way to would increase their own strength and also to see if our senators could bring up fluff for consideration outside of senatorial considerations to be considered in the senate. So if it is too far very sorry, if not could there be a set up for it so we don't get too much shenanigans for it?}}
{{Dude relax, i wanted to know because i had the idea that the exiled danes would put the emperor who welcomed them from their exile damned near to Markos in greatness. So i wanted to know if this dude was a saint or if it was appropriate for my character to gently caress one of his relics, for instance the broken off handle of a mace he once used to bash in the skull of a mongol soldier.)
 

TurtleShroom

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{ OOC: Suppertime is approaching and I will be eating dinner around six o'clock. I have matters to attend to outside this website before then, so I will try and post sometime tonight. }
 

ThetrueColt

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{{ @TurtleShroom: I feel inclined to warn you once more - do not take your Mongolian heritage too far in the Roman senate halls. If you overdo it in the eyes of my character, he will ask the president of the senate to arrest you at once.

I'll join the debate tomorrow.}}
 

Malal

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Senator Iskinder Godric

*a slow, methodic tapping echoes throughout the palace. Guided by two guards Iskinder Godric, hitting the ground infront of him with a cane, walks into the senate, before being helped to his seat by the guards. His condition is due to the Aethiopian revolt, as when it first broke out, Iskinder was captured by the rebels, and subjected to a very...intense torture. by the end of the day, he was rendered blind, and given a chronic fear of mole-rats.*

"Senators, concerning the economic and pisan situation, why not strike two birds with one stone? our armys are much more vast and experienced than the pisan militias, and their cities grow rich on trade with the xenoi. I suggest that we send in the Imperial Army, and simply ransack the entire country of Pisa. This will pay our debts, and show the pisans that trade with the far west is heretical, and needs to be punished. It will also allow the good men of the army to get some extra pay, raising their spirits. Regarding the Aethiopian situation, It is...stable..Now can someone tell me if a David Gabras is here?"
 

Blogman66

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Senator Iskander Ouranos

"A war with the Pisans would enable us to recover more of the prosperous trade of Italy. However I cannot stress more that a prolonged war with the Pisans would only lead to more economic problems, continued peace must remain an option until we are confident that the xenoi do not stab us in the back and the Pisans can be dealt with ease. Our economy is still suffering fellow Senators, we must act with caution, for financing the army for war could be the final blow to Imperial finances".
 

coragamy

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Senator Ulysses Aelious
Ulysses notices the tensing of President Dalesenoss when he sees the Mongol.
Murmuring to himself "Hmmm. Some tensions and angles I might be able to use."
To all "My fellow reds, we all have made it clear in our meeting what we wish to be done about the Pisans, but I propose we all follow the example of Senators Scipion and Wendrovander and wait for our esteemed Speaker to make a stance and present a unified front.
{{Sorry for short post, exhausted today and will truly join tomorrow}}
 
Last edited:

Teutonic King

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Senator Quintus Mojmirid
Quintus eyes the room, watching the men of the senate bicker and argue over what to do with Pisa. As Senator Ulysses sits down, Quintus rises to face the Senate.
"Noble Senators, I find this whole issue maddening in the current, and overly brutish, views. I understand where the reds are coming from, and they are right. Pisa has existed for too long, and stabbed too many people in the back to be fully trusted ever again. However that is something that we can change. While Pisa may hate us, and despise the Xenoi, that does not mean they would not make a wonderful puppet. I feel that it would be a better idea to force them into servitude, and eventual annexation. Unfortunately our goals cannot be focused on war at this current time. The debts to our society and the continuous lack of funds is simply driving our wealth into the dust, with naught but rocks and worms as equal to our own currency. I propose that instead of war we seek trade. I do not mean trade in the blue dem's sense, no offence but your trade values your own purse over the Imperium. No open and free markets with this nation to the east. After a period of study I believe this land in the east to be the fabled Cathay. If the senate would be willing to allow, I feel a merchant expedition to Cathay could benifit all of us. We already know that Silk, one of the finest cloths we have in the Imperium and one of the finest cloths in the known world, comes from Cathay. If this fine material comes from the east, just think what other riches might exist in this land that we could extract. Yes this may seem to favor the Blues, but I have a goal for the Whites and the Reds as well. Should the reds see fit, I will lead this expedition over land with a single army. If I am successful, while in Cathay I plan to get tallied reports of their military might and what they think of the Imperium. To preemptively know one's allies and enemies is the best strategy in planning for the future. Lastly, the whites, I know that my plans so far seem to favor military and trade, but it will also help boost our economy. Let us not deny that our economy has grown stagnate. While we still have fine goods from the far reaches of the world, only the select few have actually gotten to taste and experience what the elite have. Opening our markets to free and unbridled trade between nations will not only bring in far more fine goods, such as spices from India and Silks from Cathay, but it will help our economy by allowing a previously untapped resource of the middle class into our markets."


Quintus turns back to sit in his seat once more, only to turn back around and address the other Senators. "I hope that you will see that I aim for nothing but the benefit of the Imperium and the growth of knowledge." With those words, Quintus took his seat once more.

 

Attalus

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Senator Alexandros Raoul :

"Dear Senators I see that you are waiting for your representatives to come front but it does not avoid you from speaking your mind". He points out to the documents given by the Skrinion ton Barbarion. "These maps, I assume they are fresh and correct since they are Imperial, clearly show us the advantage we have in the Western Mediterranean. Our fleet can blockade easily the Pisan ports and leave half their army stranded in the Thyrrenian islands! Moreover, our sole army in the sector surpass theirs in sheer numbers, not to say in quality! I believe a prepared attack on the Pisans can be swift and efficient. They have the wealth needed for the Imperium, wealth needed to repay our loans, wealth needed to explorate the Far East, wealth needed for the victory of the Imperium. Some speak of forcing to bow, I can only smile at the thought but it would clearly not be the goal of this campaign. For this we'd need to even take Corsica and Sardinia and I don't think I have to warn you about the cost of such a landing for our armies. Let us make this war quick, efficient and successful! The Skrinion clearly shows that despite their small size compared to the Imperium Pisa is nearly as rich as the true Romans. I can only imagine the wealth the Imperium could retire from all this, worthy of a triumph like in the days of old. I can see the opposition of many here. I know that many Blues do not share my views and I see that they are not alone but I do not think of glory or revenge, I speak of taking what we need from an enemy that has been left unchecked too long. Some say that they helped destroying the False Empire ; I answer that is was pure coincidence that their greed collided with our objectives. Remember that the Pisans striked the Imperium when the reconquest of Aegyptus began, trying to reclaim territories they considered "theirs" with the help of their Dark Masters. Yes they have angered the heathens from the West and are now "independent" but no one should forget what they have done in the past. Even the Briton heretics would never have dared to do such a thing. To quote a famous Roman : Pisa delenda est."

{{ When you think about it, Pisa is a bit the New Carthage :p }}