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Attalus

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{{Production efficiency and trade efficiency could be good be options. I didn't see them on the posted list, though they are on the Wiki. Interest reductions (and now army maintenance) probably bring in more, though. Has anyone done the math? It depends also on what average interest we currently pay on our loans. But this is getting gamy, sorry about that. }}
{{ You have to make it RP though. I mean I can't suddenly proclaim a policy with -5% cost for diplomatic annexation coupled with an inflation reduction, it makes no sense :p
Thankfully for the Blues, merchants are linked with both the army and the global economy. We can make a policy that uses our contacts with merchants to improve trade revenues(trade efficiency) while reducing the cost of army supplies (army maintenance) or reducing the interests on the loans. }}
 

CzokletMuss

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{{Production efficiency and trade efficiency could be good be options. I didn't see them on the posted list, though they are on the Wiki. Interest reductions (and now army maintenance) probably bring in more, though. Has anyone done the math? It depends also on what average interest we currently pay on our loans. But this is getting gamy, sorry about that. }}
{{It's supposed to be gamy to a degree ;) You have 10 points to redistribute among two bonuses in one policy, so you have to make some calculations - if the points cost surpassess 10 it will not be enacted. I'm thinking about gradually changing the limit though, say from 10pts to 15pts and later to 20pts to show the slowly growing importance of the Senate and its position in the imperial administration.

Remember though that you still have to "sell" the policy in a role-playing sense.}}

{{
Czoklet,
I also realised it might be a very good idea to change our faction bonus to help reduce interest instead of getting more advisors like we voted on last time. Is that possible to do or are the bonuses written in stone?}}
((Written in stone - it would be too easy to change them every time plus you have policies as a more flexible tool. You may choose new bonuses every time we unlock new Idea Group though.}}
 

ThetrueColt

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Senator Decius Pylaeus


It seems the important news arrived at the right time, with all of us together. This might give us a head start for the senate session after all.

I think we should refrain from any expeditions until the inner stability of the Imperium can be guaranteed. The Blues had their fun long enough and since our coffers are empty, we should not spend money that is needed elsewhere. If you beg to differ, I will surrender my personal view to a majority.

On the matter of establishing diplomatic relations with an unknown empire in the east, I can only express my utmost reluctance. Our diplomatic corps is strained to the limit as is
{{I believe we are 1 or 2 relation above our limit, aren't we?}}, thus any further relations could not be maintained well enough and would bring more harm to the Imperium than benefit.

Further more, Javier Espinosa is probably the worst person we could possibly send there. Not only is he a bad example for any scholar of the Imperium because he confuses a place of knowledge and learning with a place of political bickering
{{the fact why the entire family of the Pylaei despises the man and his supposedly bad influence on the blessed autokrator}}, his presence during the last session also made it clear that he is nothing but an extended arm of the blue demes.
His manners leave a lot to be desired as well, his nonchalant stance may be suited for a brawl in a tavern, but it certainly isn't for the intricacies of foreign diplomacy.

If you ask me for an opinion on the Pisans, then I can only say that all lands of Pisa are rightfully Roman, so a war against them can never be wrong, alas, it might be unwise to wage war at this point. You all seem to oppose bringing war to those greedy merchants that are a scourge of our beloved home, so I shall reluctantly agree.

Regarding the final matter of a new policy to revitalize our economy, I thought of the following: Initially, we should propose something that benefits us the most, namely a reduction to the horrendous inflation that continues to plague our lands along with a solid boost to our domestic economy
{{Production efficiency boost}}. The best alternative to this would be a joint venture with the esteemed senators of the red faction, to substitute the enhanced focus on production for a solution that benefits the aerarium and the tagmata. If we could appoint experts from the administration to better regulate the payments of our soldiers, there is money to be saved as well {{Land maintenance reduction}}.



{{
I played around with the designer ingame, and if no other penalties apply, this would be what my alternatives look like:



In terms of being gamey, we already have reduced interest rates, any more would be overkill imo. Reduced inflation can come in handy in a lot of ways, paired with a nice-to-have general financial boost it is well suited as a policy that can be turned on or off whenever the need arises.

Immediately 6-7 ducats per month are saved, the lowered inflation will yield the long-term benefits.

LOL :D

{{ I wonder what paths my glorious Demes will take. Both the Reds and Whites seem to get many problems with the Blues (for absolutely no reason :p ) but I guess that could change if we make them an offer they can't refuse ... }}
Last time I checked a di Capponi was a member of the whites, so I'd like to see such an offer brought before him ;)

{{
Czoklet,
I also realised it might be a very good idea to change our faction bonus to help reduce interest instead of getting more advisors like we voted on last time. Is that possible to do or are the bonuses written in stone?}}
We should not change previous decisions. Not only gives that the impression of a demes with a weak leader, it also makes decisions kind of pointless if they can be revoked at any point. Moreover, advisors are still better in the long run imo. Also, the Whites should not have to pay for the Blues' mistake.
}}
 
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Ponce_The_Great

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{{Is anyone else mystified by the idea that the Whites actually have enough members for a faction meeting?
now I'm imagining all the Reds having a celebratory dinner at someone's mansion in the capital and receiving word of the senate session agenda}}
 

CzokletMuss

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ATTENTION EVERYONE

I have most glorious news for you - "Imperium Sine Fine" (kinda) works on patch 1.12!





What you can see here is the effect of me creating a new mod (called "Imperium Sine Fine") which as of this moment consists only of files extracted from history/provinces folder from Converted_Roman_Empire_1444_11_11 (exported save from CK2). I simply loaded this mod and tried to load the last save from my campaign and voila! All new mechanics seem to work! :)

Of course there are some issues like several tags non existing, messed up religions and cultures etc. But since the historical files were my biggest concern (more than 1,500 files to edit manually would take weeks) I believe I can manage editing 100-200 files tops to make "Imperium Sine Fine" fully compatible. After that I would only have to create a new bookmark (1540.1.1) and that's it, we can continue in EU4 v.1.12.1 )

Oh, and this would mean obviously that I would be able to share this mod with everyone via Steam in the future.

This would take some time naturally but to be honest it would be for the best - I was learning basics of modding when I started editing the exported save from CK2 and Dorimi's PPA, so they are rather messy at the moment. This would be a great occassion to finally clean the mess.


PRAISE SAINT MARKOS!
 
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DKM

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TheAnguishedOne

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Oh, and this would mean obviously that I would be able to share this mod with everyone via Steam in the future.
{{Forget Saint Markos, praise CzokletMuss!}}
 
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CzokletMuss

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Sant instead of Saint? It's confirmed; the Emperor is a HERETIC! Though seriously, this is awesome news!
{{Emperor is a heretic? THAT'S EXTRA HERETICAL!



Holy crap, I'm so happy right now, I never really expected it to work! :D This is truly glorious! }}

EDIT: It's working!

 
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Serpent

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Senator Alexios Serapis of the White Demes

*Alexios nods thoughtfully white Decius speaks*

"You make several good points Senator Pylaeus. Certainly we must eventually regain all lands once held by Rome, including those lands currently held by Pisa."

"A more efficient management of the tagmata's costs would probably be the single greatest reduction possible at this time on the financial burdens of the Imperium. Simply because the armies are by far our greatest single expense. I can see the value in such a deal, both in the long and the short term. The gradual reduction in inflation you propose, however... It makes me somewhat hesitant. It would take us a decade under such a system to reduce inflation by a single percent and over a century before we got rid of it entirely. That is, unless we take new loans. Is that worth the burden on the administration, or would it be more efficient to enact a temporary policy that reduced the cost on more drastic improvements on our coinage?" *He ponders briefly*, "Yes, but that too would likely be counter-productive."
{{=Reduce Inflation cost -10% for 3 points. The Admin points saved by that would not cover the costs of the policy for 10 years, but a -0.1 inflation/year policy would cost 1 ADM/month for 100 years to lower our inflation by 10. That is 1200 ADM points. By paying directly to lower inflation it would only cost 375 ADM. If we're desperate to reduce inflation that is what we should do.}}.

" If the situation allows it we could also deal with the Blues. Increasing our trade income would bring nearly as much as improvements in production and would also allow us to improve tax-collection. (3+3+3 points for 10% increase in each). Altogether that would increase our income by 11 per month, as much as a deal with the Reds for maintenance and production.

"I believe it would be better to focus directly on improving our income and reducing our expenditure than long-or short term measures against inflation. Reducing inflation will not help us if we are forced to take out new loans because of our deficit. A policy focused on Production together with Maintenance or with Trade and Taxes would help the imperium both in the long and short term. The Inflation will be reduced when we enact Economic reforms. Though I will admit Senator Capponi may have been right when he spoke of taking more direct measures to reduce inflation {{Reduce Inflation at 75adm/2inf}}, we have no mandate to propose such measures in the Senate."

"I wish we had more time to discuss, but we will need to reach an agreement soon. I am willing to follow the majority in this."



{{Is anyone else mystified by the idea that the Whites actually have enough members for a faction meeting?
now I'm imagining all the Reds having a celebratory dinner at someone's mansion in the capital and receiving word of the senate session agenda}}
{{It's wonderful. The game will run much better with three more or less equal parties than as a one or two party system like it was when the Blues were at their peak.}}


{{Forget Saint Markos, praise CzokletMuss!}}
{{That's one Heresy I'm willing to support!}}
 
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Ponce_The_Great

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{{That first image of the Imperium wiped off the map, i guess we were right, the Common Sense weapon of the Sweedes and their Caledonian and Pisan allies did succeed in wiping the Imperium from existence. only a minor setback for the Imperium as it turns out}}
 

Serpent

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{{I edited my post above by a lot. So take a look if you want.

To recap, Alexios is open to negotiate either with the Blues or the Reds for +10%production/+10%Trade/+10%Tax for 3+3+3 points or +10%production/-10%land maintenance for 3+5 points.
Both deals would be pretty much equally sound financially.

If we're not making any deal I'm not sure what policy would be best.
+1 tolerance of the True Faith is pretty good for 3 points, and would also help our income
Combined with -1 to Unrest for 3 points and +10 to production for 3 points it would be very beneficial financially both directly and indirectly. It would vastly reduce the risk of rebellions and help avert the disaster that forces Czoklet to keep military maintenance at 100%. By doing that it would save a lot more than -10% to maintenance would. We could save 30 to 50 Imperial Ducats just like that!
Yes, now that I think about it, that would probably be the best outcome of all. If only the Senate would support it.

Edit: And I was wrong. We are only able to put two bonuses into a policy.
}}
 
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ThetrueColt

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Senator Decius Pylaeus

"I agree with your suggestions regarding inflation. Surely the Augustus will take the measures to combat the issue directly, so we do not have to worry about it in our policy. I'd say the best suggestion would be an increased focus in our production at home to strengthen the overall economy together with the reform of army payments I proposed earlier, as this would have the greatest immediate effect on the economy and it can also be used to sway the reds and work with them.

Your other suggestion leaves me disappointed, dear Alexios. I will not stand idly by while we would cooperate with the greedy merchants of the blues that are responsible for the dire situation the Imperium has to face. You will become our faction speaker and as such I apparently have to remind you that there are white senators who will not see an alliance with the blues happen by all means necessary. Please reconsider your opinion on that matter. It is the only point where I am not willing to make concessions and it is the sole topic where I am not going to surrender my opinion to that of the demes as it would bring about great dishonour and shame to my house."

*Junius looks at Sentaor Serapis with an expectant expression.*


{{The adm difference is really huge, I guess directly lowering inflation is way better. The policy would be worth 12-14 ducats per month, I'd say that's the best we can get for now.

You have 10 points to redistribute among two bonuses in one policy
I am afraid we can only mix two bonuses together.}}
 

Serpent

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Senator Alexios Serapis of the White Demes

"My friend." Alexios looks at Junius with a serious expression. "I understand your reluctance to work with those you despise. I do not fully share your feelings. Though the Blues have always been my enemies in the Senate, sometimes our enemies are better kept close. I will consider your words, but if we block ourselves entirely from working with the Blues the Reds will be able to dictate terms to us by posing ultimatums. We should not give them that power.
You can be certain, however, that I will oppose the Blues in all other matters as long as it does not risk our position. The expeditions would be a foolish waste, and a rogue should not be made an Imperial ambassador."


"There is a possibility, however narrow, that we will be able to enact an entirely White policy trough the Senate. Indeed that should be the starting point of our negotiations. Your proposal on improving production (3pts) certainly belongs in the first part of such a policy, but as for the rest I believe we should take a wider look at the Empire than the immediate budgetary strain. Only that way can we gain support from the non-fanatical members of the other Demes."

The Imperium, as we all know and some of us have experienced first hand, is under tremendous internal stress. Revolt and revolution, it seems, is a constantly looming threat. That threat forces the Emperor to keep the Tagmata at full readiness at all times and that is what puts the greatest strain on our finances by far. If we could enact policies to reduce unrest (3pts) or increase the governments respect for the faithful (3pts) we would improve tax collection in the afflicted areas greatly, stop the drain on our Tagmata, reduce the cost for mercenaries, save vast funds on maintenance and, my brothers, avert the great disaster that is looming over us; The threat of great Internal Conflicts."



I am afraid we can only mix two bonuses together.}}
{{Eh. Now I'm looking foolish. I assumed that it was no 0 cost bonuses with a total maximum of 10.
Then would -Unrest be better, or +Tolerance? We need to do something about that Disaster (Internal Conflicts)

}}
 
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ThetrueColt

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{{You read the part that Czoklet posted saying we are only able to choose 2 bonuses in the policy, right?}}
 

ThetrueColt

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Senator Decius Pylaeus

"I understand what you are saying, but I cannot back down on this. If we play our cards right and not too openly, we should be fine anyways. Moreover I do think that the reds will be more willing to work with us, because who would be willing to cooperate with a bunch of moneybags whose greatest accomplishment is the current Imperial economic crisis?

Anyways, it is getting late so we should be preparing for the following session soon. It has been a great pleasure to meet so many new friends and close minds. The white demes is clearly a bastion of reason and progress in the senate. I wish the best of fortune to all of you until we shall meet again in the senate!"

*Decius takes a seat as he waits for any parting words from fellow senators.*

{{
{{I did but forgot about it, which is why I'm feeling foolish :oops:.}}
We can just use my suggestion as a basis for what we can work out in the session.
}}
 

CzokletMuss

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FACTION MEETING - CLOSING



Illustrious President of the Imperial Senate magistros Nikephoros Dalassenos hereby annouces that

THE MEETING OF THE WHITE DEMES HAS ENDED

Honorable senator Alexios of the noble House SERAPIS (played by: Serpent) was elected as Speaker of the White Demes.

May the blessing of Saint Markos be upon all of us.

Signed,
Nikephoros Dalassenos
President of the Imperial Senate
 
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CzokletMuss

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FACTION MEETING - ANNOUNCEMENT



Illustrious President of the Imperial Senate magistros Nikephoros Dalassenos hereby annouces

THE MEETING OF THE BLUE DEMES HAS BEGUN

REMEMBER THE FOLLOWING
  • Begin every post written in-character using the following template:
    Code:
    [b][size=4]Senator <name>:[/b][/size]
  • While writing in-character, you have to use italics.
  • While writing out-of-character during the Senate Session or Faction Meeting, you have to use brackets.
  • You may type „@<ForumNickname>” in your post to tag forum users (they get a notification they were mentioned in your post)

EXCERPT FROM THE RULES
Article 11-4 – Faction Meeting
1. Faction Meeting is a meeting of members of a Senate Faction hold in the Sacred Palace during which noble Senators gather to discuss (in-character) state of affairs of the Imperium Romanum.
2. Faction Meeting is called, opened and closed by the President of the Senate at the request of a Faction Leader. The request has to be approved by the President of the Senate.
3. Faction Leader notifies members of the Faction he leads about the Faction Meeting after his request is approved.
4. Faction Leader ensures order and decorum during Faction Meeting and is responsible for every violation of the Rules of Procedure which occurs during the Faction Meeting.
5. Faction Meeting lasts for 48 hours and may only be called after at least 24 hours has passed since the previous Faction Meeting. Each Faction can request one Faction Meeting to be hold between every two chapters.
6. Faction Meeting takes place in:
- Atrium of Church of the Virgin of the Pharos (White Demes)
- Hall of Augusteus in Palace of Daphne (Red Demes)
- Neptune's Balcony in Boukelon Palace (Blue Demes)
7. During Faction Meeting members of the Imperial Senate Guard ensure safety of the noble Senators.
8. During Faction Meeting noble Senators may read or write letters to NPCs (non-playable characters) from their House.

(...)

Article 19 – Debate
1. During the debate, Senators may:
- present their statements in regard to the subjects of the Senate Session;
- debate with other Senators;
- ask questions to the guests invited for the hearing, if they are any.
2. Senators have to begin every post written in-character using the following template:
- [ b ][ size=+1 ]Senator <name>:[ /b ][ /size ]
with spaces between the brackets and code removed.
3. During the debate, Senators may not:
- carry any weapon with themselves;
- be accompanied by any servants or slaves;
- bring any items without the permission of the President of the Senate.
4. Non-Senators (regular readers) may post normally during the debate.
May the blessing of Saint Markos be upon all of us.

Signed,
Nikephoros Dalassenos
President of the Imperial Senate
***
1st January 1540
Boukoleon, Sacred Palace, Konstantinoupolis


The Neptune's Balcony, called so because of an ancient fresco depicting Poseidon commanding the waves of a furious sea during storm, is almost completely filled with pillowed couches surrounding huge mahogany table. Against the marble walls of the room stand several smaller tables bending under the weight of various dishes on a silver tableware. The whole room is decorated with blue draperies and despite an early hour, the light shining through the windows covered with silk curtains is dim. Although there are at least dozens of burning aromatic incenses within the Neptune's Balcony, the seaside scent – salty, fishy, slightly sulfury with a pinch of rotting algae – is still perceptible.

As the first member of the Blue Demes to arrive enters the Balcony, he's greeted by an eunuch accompanied by six members of the Imperial Senate Guard, all of them armed.


EUNUCH: Salve, honorable Senator! The Balcony has been prepared for your arrival. The slaves are at your disposal and they will make sure that you have enough food and bevarages during the meeting. The guardsmen shall stay in the corridor for the safety of all noble Senators who are gathering here. I wish you a fruitful discussion.
*bows deeply*
Saint Markos bless you.
*eunuch turns around and leaves*

***

During this meeting the Blue Demes has to elect Faction Speaker:
  • Election is unanimous (no voting).
  • Every member of the Faction has a right of veto.
  • To elect a Faction Speaker a consensus has to be reached by the Faction.
  • To reach a consensus not a single veto has to be used against the candidate.
  • Every Senator at least 35 years old is elligible to run for position of the Faction Speaker.
  • If all candidates were vetoed, the Faction carries on without a Faction Speaker.