{{Never accept a promise from a senator who might die before the next session}}
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{{Never accept a promise from a senator who might die before the next session}}
{{I am for remembering promises but not for doing them binding. Circumstances can change in many ways. For example, now our economy is bad as it was in last session but who suspected the Navy would be the main topic of this senate session in the previous one? No one, I am almost sure. The same applies to our senators. Mine have been both Reds but I am not sure if the next one will be red too and feel tighten to a deal made in the past by another family member...}}
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{{Yes, we shouldn't be forced to uphold the deal. I like the idea of looking down on every house for the rest of the AAR that breaks a deal.}}
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{{ And then Czoklet spend the next 20 years repaying loans and suppressing inflation just to troll us 
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{{Yes, of course, promises should never be binding, but a reminder would be nice }}
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{{Which would not be an issue, since all the excess money is going to finance a LOT of heavy ships for you to play aorund with}}
{{What's our tech like? for that matter what's the Aztec/Pisan tech like? Tech 7 is cannons IIRC, how far are we from the next heavy/light ship? For that matter, a general overview of our debt war exhaustion etc would be useful.}}
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{{See the state of the world, 1520 edition, there's a link to it from the first page}}
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Senator Antiochos Salamis (blue demes):
*Only to the blue demes*
My fellow Navigators, I believe that we have one more issue to discuss- as a demes, we've got some power that we can use to aid the Imperium furthermore.
There were a few suggestions in our demes in the past weeks, and we should decide today what will we focus on.
Now, I believe that we are neglecting exploration and colonization a bit- in the past sessions, the focus on exploration was the flagship of the blue demes. Althrough I believe that our predecessors were a bit too... passionate about it, and neglected other important matters like the navy, the trade, the faith, the army and the economy, I am still confident that the Imperium should explore the world god made for us and establish footholds around the world, which would provide forward bases against our enemies and easier trade with the world. As we are focusing on improving the navy in the Senate itself, I suggest that as a faction we focus on exploration and colonization. More specifically, I suggest providing more men who are capable of establishing such footholds in the new lands we discover {{+1 colonist}}.
*Only to the blue demes*
My fellow Navigators, I believe that we have one more issue to discuss- as a demes, we've got some power that we can use to aid the Imperium furthermore.
There were a few suggestions in our demes in the past weeks, and we should decide today what will we focus on.
Now, I believe that we are neglecting exploration and colonization a bit- in the past sessions, the focus on exploration was the flagship of the blue demes. Althrough I believe that our predecessors were a bit too... passionate about it, and neglected other important matters like the navy, the trade, the faith, the army and the economy, I am still confident that the Imperium should explore the world god made for us and establish footholds around the world, which would provide forward bases against our enemies and easier trade with the world. As we are focusing on improving the navy in the Senate itself, I suggest that as a faction we focus on exploration and colonization. More specifically, I suggest providing more men who are capable of establishing such footholds in the new lands we discover {{+1 colonist}}.
Senator Titos Livios Melissenos (The Blues)
*Titos nods towards Antiochios.*
In this regard I agree with you and would support this notion.
*Titos nods towards Antiochios.*
In this regard I agree with you and would support this notion.
Senator Alexandros Raoul :
*Only to the Blues*
Antiochos is right we heve to discuss this matter if we come to be the most influent at the court. Sure we could use our contacts in the Navy to strenghten the privateers, striking our ennemies right in their finances or our numerous contacts in the merchant class to get more gold, but it pales in comparison of encouraging settlers to take the last lands where civilization has not spread yet.
Think of the new lands we could secure in south Nubia and in the West once Funj has been integrated into the Imperium ! New lands to cultivate and avoid famine, new men for the Tagmata, new riches !
*Only to the Blues*
Antiochos is right we heve to discuss this matter if we come to be the most influent at the court. Sure we could use our contacts in the Navy to strenghten the privateers, striking our ennemies right in their finances or our numerous contacts in the merchant class to get more gold, but it pales in comparison of encouraging settlers to take the last lands where civilization has not spread yet.
Think of the new lands we could secure in south Nubia and in the West once Funj has been integrated into the Imperium ! New lands to cultivate and avoid famine, new men for the Tagmata, new riches !
Senator Marcus Arrius (the Blues):
*Marcus addresses Senator Salamis.*
Of course. I don't believe there is a single member of the Blue Demes that would suggest we strengthen our Faction in another way. Even members of the Red Demes and some of the unaffiliated support this thinking. This is one of the least divisive issues ever brought before a Faction.
*Marcus addresses Senator Salamis.*
Of course. I don't believe there is a single member of the Blue Demes that would suggest we strengthen our Faction in another way. Even members of the Red Demes and some of the unaffiliated support this thinking. This is one of the least divisive issues ever brought before a Faction.
Senator Christoforo Colombo:
It is a dark day when merchants call the pious greedy. It is yet darker when they call the pious 'crazy', 'ignorant' and 'bigots'. For the life of me, I cannot understand why this den of villainy and jewry is allowed, and consented to, by the Emperor. The Emperor, God bless him, works in mysterious ways...
I laugh at these young {punks} Senators who have the presumption to call me 'ignorant'. All true knowledge comes from God, and I have spent the last TWENTY years consulting the works of Christian Scholars, searching for answers and guidance. It is near heretical these Senators would stoop so low as to say that..
You are also assuming that just because I have beliefs, I cannot be swayed from positions. It appears that nothing will dissuade the Senate from funding this foolhardy expedition. As such, I will concede to it; just heed my warning that you will find nothing. I wish our colonists luck in converting the savages to the faith, but I doubt they will. Those persons originating outside of Europa are too feeble-minded to truly understand the word of Christ.
In regards to the development of Artillery: I urge the Imperium to focus research on wholly Christian methods. Greek Fire has served us well for centuries, we should work to further improve the work of previous enlightened engineers before we stoop to using the Dark Arts of the West.
However, I will not back down from my support of Economic Ideas. While naval reforms are necessary, we cannot build ships if we do not have the money to make them. Inflation is ever rising, and if the Imperial currency is no longer seen as having worth by the people, catastrophe will await. The Dark hand of the Jews and Pisans lies behind our back. We must work quickly to make sure the blade does not strike.
{Remember that even normal europe was racist and bigoted as all hell during this period. We are in an ever darker timeline, where europeans are under attack by savages in all directions. With this in mind, all racism/bigotry from Christoforo is RP, of course.}
It is a dark day when merchants call the pious greedy. It is yet darker when they call the pious 'crazy', 'ignorant' and 'bigots'. For the life of me, I cannot understand why this den of villainy and jewry is allowed, and consented to, by the Emperor. The Emperor, God bless him, works in mysterious ways...
I laugh at these young {punks} Senators who have the presumption to call me 'ignorant'. All true knowledge comes from God, and I have spent the last TWENTY years consulting the works of Christian Scholars, searching for answers and guidance. It is near heretical these Senators would stoop so low as to say that..
You are also assuming that just because I have beliefs, I cannot be swayed from positions. It appears that nothing will dissuade the Senate from funding this foolhardy expedition. As such, I will concede to it; just heed my warning that you will find nothing. I wish our colonists luck in converting the savages to the faith, but I doubt they will. Those persons originating outside of Europa are too feeble-minded to truly understand the word of Christ.
In regards to the development of Artillery: I urge the Imperium to focus research on wholly Christian methods. Greek Fire has served us well for centuries, we should work to further improve the work of previous enlightened engineers before we stoop to using the Dark Arts of the West.
However, I will not back down from my support of Economic Ideas. While naval reforms are necessary, we cannot build ships if we do not have the money to make them. Inflation is ever rising, and if the Imperial currency is no longer seen as having worth by the people, catastrophe will await. The Dark hand of the Jews and Pisans lies behind our back. We must work quickly to make sure the blade does not strike.
{Remember that even normal europe was racist and bigoted as all hell during this period. We are in an ever darker timeline, where europeans are under attack by savages in all directions. With this in mind, all racism/bigotry from Christoforo is RP, of course.}
{{Yikes, looking at the economic tab, reduce inflation+lower upkeep+lower interest+better production all seem extremely useful... though exploration and aristocratic and quality all seem also good ideas, and either of maritime or naval would also be good... the problem with taking econ is that admin power is extremely useful, for stability, reduce inflation, coring, etc. so taking an admin idea group, especially when the first two are IMO are rather lackluster seems a tricky proposition. A mil idea would actually work best, as diplo tech will be used to bump up our navy soon...}}
Senator Marcus Arrius (the Blues):
Senator Columbo, be reasonable. I have already pledged to support economic reforms in the next Session so long as naval reforms are pushed through now. Further opposition to my attempts at cooperation only makes me fear that working with you will bear no fruit.
As for your unwillingness to try and use the Xenoi's tools against them... Humor me and imagine you are about to fight someone. Your opponent is armed with a sword and shield with proper armor. You have a stick. If given the choice, would you not want a sword yourself?
Senator Columbo, be reasonable. I have already pledged to support economic reforms in the next Session so long as naval reforms are pushed through now. Further opposition to my attempts at cooperation only makes me fear that working with you will bear no fruit.
As for your unwillingness to try and use the Xenoi's tools against them... Humor me and imagine you are about to fight someone. Your opponent is armed with a sword and shield with proper armor. You have a stick. If given the choice, would you not want a sword yourself?
Senator Iskandar Ouranos (unaffiliated):
You misunderstand Senator Arrius, to use the xenoi's weapons would be to stoop as low as them and an act of heresy. We would be the laughing stock of Christendom for having to use the weapons of heretics to defeat them. The Imperium will stand the test of time with our own weapons and tactics. We have defeated the xenoi on land before, and the day we shall re-conquer Mare Nostrum is close at hand.
You misunderstand Senator Arrius, to use the xenoi's weapons would be to stoop as low as them and an act of heresy. We would be the laughing stock of Christendom for having to use the weapons of heretics to defeat them. The Imperium will stand the test of time with our own weapons and tactics. We have defeated the xenoi on land before, and the day we shall re-conquer Mare Nostrum is close at hand.
Senator Aetius Scipion:
My dear friend, almost half of our Legions are cavalrymen. How can you doubt if they were decisive in our victories? {Land attrition also looks interesting but I think that, given our strong force of cavalry (we are the first world power on these units, +56K units, besides Eastern armies use to use them in big quantities, would be the best option}}
{{OK guys I've let this discussion be mostly in-character long enough to try to be very nice but now i'm talking out of character to bring up some gameplay mechanics. The most recent version of EU4 Does not allow nations to have over 50% idea groups in one particular area of expertise. Meaning our good man in charge Cannot pick anything that is not Diplomacy group at this time. The next gameplay mechanic I want to speak of is the idea that we can vassalize Ceylon. I'm not completely sure I admit but i'm about 90% sure that we would need to get territory right next to them and have about 6 more dip reputation to have any chance to convince them peacefully to our cause. Otherwise it would take a CB that we don't have. So basically we shouldn't be having this discussion right now. 40 years down the line, maybe, now no.}}
Senator Marcus Arrius (the Blues):
Senator Ouranos... You speak as if the Imperium has never changed with time. If we fought the way our ancestors did, our soldiers would wear no armor and beat their enemies with clubs. To adapt is to become stronger. Those who resist change are left behind. We have lost to the Xenoi on land and sea. If we did not need to adapt, we would be winning. By improving our equipment, less soldiers will die, less ships will be destroyed, and less mercenaries will have to be hired. If the Augustus followed your line of thinking, the Imperium would long be dead.
I beg you and those who think like you to reconsider, lest you want to watch our homes crumble. These thundersticks... cannons... they are the Imperium's future.
Senator Ouranos... You speak as if the Imperium has never changed with time. If we fought the way our ancestors did, our soldiers would wear no armor and beat their enemies with clubs. To adapt is to become stronger. Those who resist change are left behind. We have lost to the Xenoi on land and sea. If we did not need to adapt, we would be winning. By improving our equipment, less soldiers will die, less ships will be destroyed, and less mercenaries will have to be hired. If the Augustus followed your line of thinking, the Imperium would long be dead.
I beg you and those who think like you to reconsider, lest you want to watch our homes crumble. These thundersticks... cannons... they are the Imperium's future.
Petrus Taurinus (Reds)
*Petrus continues to wear an amused smile on his face as he watches the senate fall into chaos*
To the senate:
With respect to my fellow Reds and the unaligned, I cannot in good conscious support any proposal that would focus the Empire's attention on this mad naval dream.
I would support an economic reform so long as we keep proper support for the Imperial army. As a loyal son of the Imperium I must oppose the disastrous naval plans that would end with the economic ruin of the Empire.
Senator D'ESTE-RAVENNA, the time will come when we may claim the seas from the invaders and invade their home lands, but for now we must look to reclaiming the mainland, then when the Empire is in a position of strength we can focus on a navy to crush the invaders.
to the Reds:
I concur with Scipion's proposal that we focus on cavalry in our own faction.
And I would like to propose myself as a humble candidate to lead the Reds, my family's long and proud history among the Reds dates back to the foundation of the senate and it would be an honor to act as spokesman for our noble deme.
As of right now unless the Red Demes unite to support a military reform, which I would happily support, we should support the economic reforms and look towards our next reform being the military.
*Petrus continues to wear an amused smile on his face as he watches the senate fall into chaos*
To the senate:
With respect to my fellow Reds and the unaligned, I cannot in good conscious support any proposal that would focus the Empire's attention on this mad naval dream.
I would support an economic reform so long as we keep proper support for the Imperial army. As a loyal son of the Imperium I must oppose the disastrous naval plans that would end with the economic ruin of the Empire.
Senator D'ESTE-RAVENNA, the time will come when we may claim the seas from the invaders and invade their home lands, but for now we must look to reclaiming the mainland, then when the Empire is in a position of strength we can focus on a navy to crush the invaders.
to the Reds:
I concur with Scipion's proposal that we focus on cavalry in our own faction.
And I would like to propose myself as a humble candidate to lead the Reds, my family's long and proud history among the Reds dates back to the foundation of the senate and it would be an honor to act as spokesman for our noble deme.
As of right now unless the Red Demes unite to support a military reform, which I would happily support, we should support the economic reforms and look towards our next reform being the military.