This is broken & absurdly infuriating.

[Resistance0108]

Duke A revolts against King B. King B wipes Duke A's troops out. King C declares war on Duke A.
King B sieges Duke A's holdings while he ignores King C. King C wins without fighting with King A. King A don't care about it.

This kind of things happens often. Isn't it too stupid?
War against revolts and "inconclusively ended" in holy war/crusade needs total revision.

 

[yerm]

Declaring war against a rebellious vassal should be treated no differently than declaring war against a loyal vassal. You go to war with the overlord in both cases. It is simply bad design that the overlord is not put into defense of the vassal. Ideally, to prevent the liege just accepting demands to rid themselves of a rebellious vassal, their acceptance in the case of a rebel would only remove them, and move the CB to the vassal itself. Attacking into a rebelling vassal is now trickier, because there are multiple heads involved in peace, but should still be easier in spite of it because its in the midst of civil war.

As stated by others, the entire problem here is this god awful idea that rebelling vassals are fair game independents who can have land and title seized without their overlord's participation. This recent change making it HARDER for an overlord to defend their own territory and vassals, rebellious or not, is the complete and total opposite of what is sensible and/or good for the game. It's like nobody stopped and took a breather to think about what the actual big picture is going on, and just made a lot of minor tweaks for individual concerns that create this fundamentally nonsensical situation where rebelling vassals are low hanging fruit that encourage their own taking, even moreso than they already were.

 

[AwesomeKeith]

NO. THIS IS MADNESS!

THIS
IS
SPARTA

 

[yerm]

THIS
IS
SPARTA

No, actually, it's not. It's the Byzantine Empire. The minor detail that Doux Cuckoldedopolous of Sparta has declared a civil war to institute seniority succession absolutely should not change this fact.

(sorry)

 

[klopkr]

This has happened a few times to me recently but I haven't paid attention to whether it was invalidated or white peaced. I always take rebel land as soon as possible to keep them from peacing out.

 

[YwLyan]

I, cristian ruler declare holy war against Tengri country, i spent 2 years conquering 80 % of it. Suddenly they convert to islam; no more casus belli everybody home...
I drained my kingdom resources and accumulated War Exhaustion all for nothing?

Why does it matters their new pagan religion, they can worship space spaghetti monster for all i care, doesn't make sense i will give up my hard conquered territories.

 

[in heaven]

Main reason being unable to peace out rebel is annoying is because you cant do any negotiations with attacker, land hes attacking is still part of my realm, so i should be able to defeat rebellion and negotiate with attacker. I don't want bloody war where enemies will siege me to the point of absolute destruction, i just want to surrender that province, but no, that bloody rebel is the only one who can negotiate...

It would be best if i would be able to win against rebel and i would become defender.

 

[Mixxer5]

Declaring war against a rebellious vassal should be treated no differently than declaring war against a loyal vassal. You go to war with the overlord in both cases. It is simply bad design that the overlord is not put into defense of the vassal. Ideally, to prevent the liege just accepting demands to rid themselves of a rebellious vassal, their acceptance in the case of a rebel would only remove them, and move the CB to the vassal itself. Attacking into a rebelling vassal is now trickier, because there are multiple heads involved in peace, but should still be easier in spite of it because its in the midst of civil war.

As stated by others, the entire problem here is this god awful idea that rebelling vassals are fair game independents who can have land and title seized without their overlord's participation. This recent change making it HARDER for an overlord to defend their own territory and vassals, rebellious or not, is the complete and total opposite of what is sensible and/or good for the game. It's like nobody stopped and took a breather to think about what the actual big picture is going on, and just made a lot of minor tweaks for individual concerns that create this fundamentally nonsensical situation where rebelling vassals are low hanging fruit that encourage their own taking, even moreso than they already were.

This gives me an idea- declaring war against disloyal vassal could also cause his overlord to cede province/title in exchange for helping against rebel. Of course it should apply only for very big revolts, but in such case, ceded territory would go together with claim (so no reconquering it later).

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Is it possible that the rebellions are ending in white peace and not through enforced demands for the AI?

EDIT: Did some testing with a single ruler independence revolt and wasn't able to trigger an early end to my war. To solve this we'll probably need to see the situation and know what happened to cause the end of the revolt.

 

[General Karthos]

So.... What you do is go to the holdings sieged by the liege of the rebelling vassal and take the holdings yourself. Even with a smallish army, you should be able to assault the holding or the siege will take little time, because he hasn't left many to defend it. You're at war with the liege of the rebelling vassal too. Heck, I go after the recently conquered holdings of the rebelling vassal first. For one thing, it brings down the war score of the liege, limiting the chance of a peace while you are fighting, and for another, those holdings are absurdly easy to capture because they have 30-40 men defending them at most. (I've seen 6, 4, and 1 in defender numbers before.)

Be willing to assault down the holdings of a defending vassal. Best if you can hire mercenaries for the sieging, because they're a unit you'll dismiss as soon as you're done with them, so who cares if 2/3rds of them die in an assault on a heavily fortified castle? But if you can't hire mercenaries, your vassals' levies work just as well as troops whose lives you can throw away without the slightest regret. I've even used my own personal levies. I mean, it's not like their lives mean anything or matter. At all.

Small Edit: I should note that I tend to opportunize like this when the liege in question is eiher:
1) Smaller than me, so he's not a threat
or
2) Occupied with other wars, so his armies aren't a threat

 

[nhgrif]

So.... What you do is go to the holdings sieged by the liege of the rebelling vassal and take the holdings yourself. Even with a smallish army, you should be able to assault the holding or the siege will take little time, because he hasn't left many to defend it. You're at war with the liege of the rebelling vassal too.

Yes, I understand how you handle it. Again, it's fine if you're a small/medium realm and the rebellion is a handful of provinces in a relatively small geographic area. But it's problematic when you're a very large realm (Holy Roman Empire with all of modern day France, Germany, Italy) fighting a very large rebellion that isn't necessarily even geographically contiguous (southern Italy, Saxony, and west Bavaria).

Importantly, you're very much so NOT actually at war with the person who has declared against the rebellion. You're just hostile against them due to competing interests. There's no war score. All you can do is take their sieges and fight their armies. You can't just go siege down their territories and cause them to surrender out of their war. You're not at war with them.

 

[General Karthos]

Yes, I understand how you handle it. Again, it's fine if you're a small/medium realm and the rebellion is a handful of provinces in a relatively small geographic area. But it's problematic when you're a very large realm (Holy Roman Empire with all of modern day France, Germany, Italy) fighting a very large rebellion that isn't necessarily even geographically contiguous (southern Italy, Saxony, and west Bavaria).

Okay, this is a point. I generally think of rebellions as relatively small affairs, and my goals tend to be relatively small... one or two provinces. At most four or five if I can manage a holy war against a rebelling vassal. I'm never looking at multiple Kingdoms in rebellion, and certainly never looking to conquer multiple Kingdoms in a single swoop, if that's even possible any more.

Importantly, you're very much so NOT actually at war with the person who has declared against the rebellion. You're just hostile against them due to competing interests. There's no war score. All you can do is take their sieges and fight their armies. You can't just go siege down their territories and cause them to surrender out of their war. You're not at war with them.

You may not be at war, but fighting their armies is important and taking away the seized territory is important. If you can deplete the armies of two different realms at the same time, as well as dropping the war score, the war will take a very long time, and the AI will rarely take a white peace because one side or the other almost always believes it will win the war if it continues. The only time you can manage a white peace with an AI is when you have 50+ war score and it'll be a stalemate (or close to it) from there on out.

 

[Atlantians]

Or England/Rebel AI regain control of the holding. They are not blocked from doing anything during the time, but yes the AI plays by the same rules as you are and if it somehow avoids it then that's a bug and not the AI on purpose cheating.

How do you know the AI is not purposefully cheating; perhaps you have inadvertently created a sentient game?