This game seriously needs a matchmaker

[Drrty-D]

. Though I dont think we will see a Wargame 4 soon. This franchise is drawn out and RTS like those are a thing of the past. I think a WG released today would get even less retail than SD.

Dont get it personal,but have you played Wargame ?I didnt notice your name over this 5 years so i ask.Maybe we wont see WG4 with that name since its owned by Focus,but i am sure it will be released sometimes,only a fool would not continue something so unique and exceptional with 1mil sales.

About the less retail then SD,really no comment dude,if they released WG4 or Ruse under new name they would be already at 300k+ sales,right now in peak playing times there is more people playing Wargame then SD we all know it,but the fact is also that its also 90% 10 vs 10 players,the 1vs1-4vs4 Conq players/ teams left but they would surely be there with new Wargame and have pretty sure 2k+ playerbase imo.

 

[Protosszocker]

Dont get it personal,but have you played Wargame ?I didnt notice your name over this 5 years so i ask.Maybe we wont see WG4 with that name since its owned by Focus,but i am sure it will be released sometimes,only a fool would not continue something so unique and exceptional with 1mil sales.

About the less retail then SD,really no comment dude,if they released WG4 or Ruse under new name they would be already at 300k+ sales,right now in peak playing times there is more people playing Wargame then SD we all know it,but the fact is also that its also 90% 10 vs 10 players,the 1vs1-4vs4 Conq players/ teams left but they would surely be there with new Wargame and have pretty sure 2k+ playerbase imo.

I think WG has a hardcore playerbase and its a goood game but it would not get a lot of players from the outside. As Zingesta already pointed out the games dont have the same audience. The last WG came out 4 years ago and already got less players than the first one. Ruse came out in a time when RTS were on last peak in mainstream. Sorry I dont think a hardcore RTS would get a big audience today. Time has changed. WG4 iwll get maybe 100k too but nothing more. Its not about the quality of the game but the genre. And no I dont come from WG I come from SC 2, Coh2 total war and aoe II HD. The big fishes in the sea and even with complelling this audience and Paradox players SD wasnt a success so I dont see a bright future for a WG 4.

 

[morpher]

The last WG came out 4 years ago and already got less players than the first one.

3 years. It has way more players than the first one.

Sorry I dont think a hardcore RTS would get a big audience today.

Not a classic RTS. But wargame is not a classic rts that's why it was a success despite the lack of polish.

 

[Drrty-D]

I think WG has a hardcore playerbase and its a goood game but it would not get a lot of players from the outside. As Zingesta already pointed out the games dont have the same audience. The last WG came out 4 years ago and already got less players than the first one. Ruse came out in a time when RTS were on last peak in mainstream. Sorry I dont think a hardcore RTS would get a big audience today. Time has changed. WG4 iwll get maybe 100k too but nothing more. Its not about the quality of the game but the genre. And no I dont come from WG I come from SC 2, Coh2 total war and aoe II HD. The big fishes in the sea and even with complelling this audience and Paradox players SD wasnt a success so I dont see a bright future for a WG 4.

Wargame4 dont need massive new players ,its enough if half/third of those 1 mil buy the game during first 1,2 months and we will have 2kish playerbase which with good matchmaker and Ranked would work perfect imo.

Over the months with steam sales the playerbase would only grow since as i say the uniqueness of Wargame cant be seen anywhere else on the market.

About R.U.S.E,man this game has now after 7 years and no more Steam Shop support still 300ish players playing in peak time,more then SD will have in 2,3 months(i really hope i am wrong here)
Half of my 200ish friends from Steam are Ruse players,all waited for the announcement of Eugens new game like a little kids full of happiness since they tought its Ruse 2 under name now,but no :-(..
There are people with 6,7k hours of Ruse,this game is also on a another level of uniqueness .

 

[Protosszocker]

3 years. It has way more players than the first one.


Not a classic RTS. But wargame is not a classic rts that's why it was a success despite the lack of polish.

I said hardcore not classic. There is a HUGH market for classic RTS, just see SC BW remastered hype and AoE2 HD.

 

[Protosszocker]

Wargame4 dont need massive new players ,its enough if half/third of those 1 mil buy the game during first 1,2 months and we will have 2kish playerbase which with good matchmaker and Ranked would work perfect imo.

Over the months with steam sales the playerbase would only grow since as i say the uniqueness of Wargame cant be seen anywhere else on the market.

About R.U.S.E,man this game has now after 7 years and no more Steam Shop support still 300ish players playing in peak time,more then SD will have in 2,3 months(i really hope i am wrong here)
Half of my 200ish friends from Steam are Ruse players,all waited for the announcement of Eugens new game like a little kids full of happiness since they tought its Ruse 2 under name now,but no :-(..
There are people with 6,7k hours of Ruse,this game is also on a another level of uniqueness .

Still its niche. I loved ruse but I would not play a new one today. You just see your small community. In my friend list a lot of people have Ruse or WG RD but most of them dont wanna play games like this anymore. At least 3 of them like the new way SD goes though. From my SC2 circle 2 got SD but no one got WGm though some have Ruse I think.
Also WG RD just has half a million not a million and at least 150k or more got it when it was in a big sales action.

 

[morpher]

There is a HUGH market for classic RTS, just see SC BW remastered hype and AoE2 HD.

No really, they are recycling old games because they have an established name. They are not even making sequels. People played those games when they were young, liked them and now they are cashing in.

 

[Protosszocker]

No really, they are recycling old games because they have an established name. They are not even making sequels. People played those games when they were young, liked them and now they are cashing in.

SC BW also has a lot of new players form SC 2 and so on. Yeah making new RTS is not worth it (just see dawn of war 3) so Classic rts is what make the sales. People want simple games that everyone knows but that are hard to master. Hardcore games arent wanted anymore today. Everything streamlines more and more ( Just take PUBG, its a really simple game if you break it down).

 

[morpher]

so Classic rts is what make the sales

I think it is a bit different. It is not a classic RTS formula that sells, it is broodwar, not something with the same mechanics, exactly broodwar. Same argument for AoE2HD. I bet that if blizzard makes a game mechanically identical to broodwar but with different names and unit appearances, that would be a disaster.

 

[Protosszocker]

I think it is a bit different. It is not a classic RTS formula that sells, it is broodwar, not something with the same mechanics, exactly broodwar. Same argument for AoE2HD. I bet that if blizzard makes a game mechanically identical to broodwar but with different names and unit appearances, that would be a disaster.

As it is with the whole counterstrike series. Just make it look better and put some comefort systems in it and everything is fine. Because those games are good on its own they dont need more stuff. New RTS on their side seems to be unable to get what the players want. And it will be the same with any Wg. Just the hardcore player will stick with it.

 

[Nebelwerfer 42]

I hate to say it, but this game will have to be saved with some kick ass DLC

 

[Protosszocker]

I hate to say it, but this game will have to be saved with some kick ass DLC

true they need something to hype through the roof. Big patches are not enough for it.

 

[Baron_Mijail]

I hate to say it, but this game will have to be saved with some kick ass DLC

I don't know, paradox DLC's are mostly basic overpriced stuff. Will see if Eugen takes another path.

 

[Zinegata]

Dont think it will be their last game. First of all 100k is still a number that isnt that bad I mean a lot of the RD owners got it for 5 bucks or so but for SD all those guys paid at least 33 bucks. Second I think they will make the missing money in with some dlcs, third even if they made looses it will not be the end but they have to make the studio a bit smaller or maybe Paradox buys them as a french office.
Anyway we will see another game. Though I dont think we will see a Wargame 4 soon. This franchise is drawn out and RTS like those are a thing of the past. I think a WG released today would get even less retail than SD.
Also I dont think its game over for SD yet. If they do a good job and come along with some nice overhauls of some parts (infact I thinks thats what they are working on atm and thats why it is so quite because they know they have to deliver something) This game can still get more sales and a community that buys dlcs.

Sorry, didn't realize you replied here. But just to share the math since you've been interested in the topic:

I assume $40 paid per copy of SD because that's the retail price, which multiplied by 200K purchases (by year-end) translated to only $8 million dollars. And that's gross revenue. We haven't counted Steam's cut in the sales yet. Figure that plus other variable expenses and Eugen's actual share of all that is likely half, or $4M - which must then go to pay the core expenses.

The main core expense is payroll. Eugen, according to its website, has 50 employees. Assuming your standard annual income of $40,000 (a very conservative figure), its payroll alone is gonna cost the company $2M annually.

And that's assuming SD took only a year to develop. If this was a two-year project, then the payroll cost doubles to $4M leaving them with no profit. If this was a three-year project, then Eugen already lost $2M.

For SD to be "safe" I would posit a minimum sale figure of 500K in the first year as the target, earning $20M gross. Even a lower figure could at least help minimize the losses and drum up support for another try; and it's very admirable how you're trying to drum up support to make this happen.

And yeah, no matter what its playerbase thinks, Wargame 4 is already dead on arrival. There is going to be very little appetite among publishers for complex RTSs especially when you also take into account how catastrophically poorly Dawn of War 3 sold. Indeed, compared to DoW3's Steam sale figure of 250K (as opposed to 1M+ for previous titles), SD is doing relatively better.

 

[Drrty-D]

The main core expense is payroll. Eugen, according to its website, has 50 employees. Assuming your standard annual income of $40,000 (a very conservative figure), its payroll alone is gonna cost the company $2M annually.

And that's assuming SD took only a year to develop. If this was a two-year project, then the payroll cost doubles to $4M leaving them with no profit. If this was a three-year project, then Eugen already lost $2M.

I think you are wrong,you probably made a lot of U'Gen employees a good laugh about the cash figures.I dont belive all earn the same and many of them are doing it as part time job where the payment is around 500ish euro+food and bus tickets if i remember correctly.

 

[Captains]

I think you are wrong,you probably made a lot of U'Gen employees a good laugh about the cash figures.I dont belive all earn the same and many of them are doing it as part time job where the payment is around 500ish euro+food and bus tickets if i remember correctly.

indeed, it seems eugen loves to have interns.

 

[Zinegata]

I think you are wrong,you probably made a lot of U'Gen employees a good laugh about the cash figures.I dont belive all earn the same and many of them are doing it as part time job where the payment is around 500ish euro+food and bus tickets if i remember correctly.

The thing is interns and part-timers are typically not counted as part of the official headcount. Relic for instance has hundreds of testers - who are all part-timers - but has an official headcount of 120, which is only slightly more than double Eugen.

$40,000/year moreover is the actual national average for France. If they offered their regular employee programmers much less than this, then they wouldn't have anyone working for them especially since they are based in Paris. Indeed, I suspect any labor shenanigans (including using interns for an extended time period almost like regulars) in Paris would very likely result in a quick labor suit.

Finally, and very bluntly, the figures I gave were already pretty low. It would not be unusual for a game the size and scope of Steel Division to cost at least $10M nowadays, thus requiring 500,000 copies sold to break-even on Steam. But hey, Wargame 4 is surely around the corner right? Eugen must surely have stacks of money somewhere because they use interns just like every other game company does.

 

[local-festival]

What is speculated by Wargame 4 in this context, exactly? For me SD is the Wargame 4 as it is. Surely I like Cold War era more, but it's not of significant importance. I would've played even if it was WW1 or even earlier settings. I liked all new mechanics: the frontline system, phases, no hitpoints, distinct divisions instead of a deck specializations. My ideal game would've been all this and the setting of European theater Cold War era clash, but only European - the greatest relief was to finally be free of this vomit inducing landscapes of Red Dragon.
All ground attack helicopters (and MLSR) could've been moved to the B phases to mitigate tactical outplays. Would've been glorious. But eh, WW2 also works. It's a great game which I thoroughly enjoy.

 

[Zinegata]

What is speculated by Wargame 4 in this context, exactly?

Eugen's next game after Steel Division. My point is that Steel Division's success - or more likely lack of - will very much affect their ability to release new games and that wishfully thinking they will just use interns to save money isn't going to change that very much.

 

[Hidden Gunman]

Steel Div has the capacity to grow (and I don't mean that as a backhand slap, either). All it needs is for the base game to be expanded out with more nations, more terrain, and portability of units from each new iteration of the game. Throw in 'career mode' leader units that a player can keep using and 'growing' through XP (till they die), and you have the makings of a classic game.

I'd like to see jungle, desert, steppe and a big urban battlefield for the series...and I'd like to throw Guards Armoured at elements of 5th Guards Tank Army.

All SD needs is to be morphed from a discrete 'game' into a 'game system'...in a sense, recreating Avalon Hill's 'Squad Leader' (for those old school gamers who still remember it).