this game is too easy

[Kumicho]

True masochists start as a Zoroastrian count under the Abbasids in the 769 start

Eh, that's not actually that hard anymore since the Caliph won't revoke your title until he gets up to Legalism 3 (and the religious revocation crown law). Started as the Zoro Duke in that start date and broke the back of the Caliph in about ~60 years. Would have taken longer as a Count, but probably still doable.

 

[Dr Gonzo]

There aren't really any starts that are that hard after the first 10 - 20 years.

 

[nevercalled]

Either he is lucky or just flat out lying about what he is saying and just wants a reaction. there is no way he got three claims in a roll unless Rng was really on his side. Which for the amount of hours I have played is never the case. Sometimes you wait a short time and sometimes you wait many years for a claim.

I challege the Op to play as a count as a christian in a Muslim nation and see how long he lasts. ( Customized the ruler so he is christian in Muslim control lands )

You need only one claim.

And i have started 3 games and 3 times i was able to do it before second holy war. One time county i pointed was taken by suni blob so i created a claim on a neighbor. Pointed location is good bcs it allows you to chain war ( and mercs are expensive) from this location u have the shorter path to holy war everything there.
When we are talking about mercs u hire to assault those with pikes of course.

Every country (nation? independant) u can conquer in few months when it is small . What u do with mercs really easy. When u get one county u can call holy wars on muslims there and finish the war before enemies will even arrive.
And read what i have written. You have like 10-15 years to fabricate a claim playing Galicia. ( first war you will help your liege), second for Galicia u can ignore bcs u already have a small empire so a loose of 2 counties is nothing for you and your liege.

edit:
3 games:
The best scenario 76 year i got almost all makaresh kingdom.
the worst it was 84.

Depends on the income from focus mostly not fabricating claim.

 

[nevercalled]

Eh, that's not actually that hard anymore since the Caliph won't revoke your title until he gets up to Legalism 3 (and the religious revocation crown law). Started as the Zoro Duke in that start date and broke the back of the Caliph in about ~60 years. Would have taken longer as a Count, but probably still doable.

Yea. From time to time your liege have a plot to fabricate claim and than he will try to revoke otherwise when u start from 770 you have rly long time to play freely ( depends on legalism and liege technology level / income). Noticed it in my third game when i switched from nomads.

I only don`t know right now how to force liege to create not de jure empire and how to convince other vassals not to vote on my character when there is an election. I found it rly hard to keep my liege as my liege. From unknown reason when vassals are not de jure empire they vote always for me even when i vote for my liege hier in elective monarchy. Checked wiki of course and still doesn`t catch this mechanism.

 

[SBolshevik]

nah u just play on strategical and tactical level.

Compare this to EU IV.

Ah, yes, playing strategically = unrealistic holy wars into North Africa that would be impossible to actually conduct.

 

[LordDamien]

I think you really underestimate how far min/maxing can get you in this game.

That must be in Vanilla then. When you have mods for Ck2 it makes the game a whole lot more challenging in my opinion. I mean for some time I was agaist modding because I had no idea how to install them. But now that I do know how.. I see how much the Mods make this game so much more fun. The game of thrones mod is wonderful to play and none of what the Op said he would be able to do in that mod.. Or in HIP Mod.. Or in CK2 + mod.

Yeah i understand how Mid maxing works. But for me personally I avoid doing it. for many reasons.. One of them being i see no point because I am not playing the game to always win. I am playing the game to see what happens with my Dynasty and the world. And other thing is that for me personally it ruins the fun." Oh hey let me Min Max and be unstoppable " Yeah that is not my idea of fun at all.

Like I said i wanted to blob and Min Max in a game.. I would play Eu4 or a Total war game . Not a Dynasty Simulator like Ck2

 

[Dr Gonzo]

That must be in Vanilla then. When you have mods for Ck2 it makes the game a whole lot more challenging in my opinion. I mean for some time I was agaist modding because I had no idea how to install them. But now that I do know how.. I see how much the Mods make this game so much more fun. The game of thrones mod is wonderful to play and none of what the Op said he would be able to do in that mod.. Or in HIP Mod.. Or in CK2 + mod.

Yeah i understand how Mid maxing works. But for me personally I avoid doing it. for many reasons.. One of them being i see no point because I am not playing the game to always win. I am playing the game to see what happens with my Dynasty and the world. And other thing is that for me personally it ruins the fun." Oh hey let me Min Max and be unstoppable " Yeah that is not my idea of fun at all.

Like I said i wanted to blob and Min Max in a game.. I would play Eu4 or a Total war game . Not a Dynasty Simulator like Ck2

Yeah I have my own mod which I play. And you are right to say that nevercalled would do well to look at mods as a way of spicing things up.

His criticisms of the vanilla game are very valid though. I mostly play in keeping with what I see as the spirit of the game but I have friends who don't see the point of playing a game unless you play it to the max of the what the rules allow, and they do allow some pretty crazy stuff. Even without cheesy tactics, playing with a good knowledge and skill level will allow you to take off pretty quickly in almost all starts. Min/maxing makes that trajectory ridiculous.

Don't forget this: https://www.reddit.com/r/CrusaderKings/comments/4717zt/cheese_ragnar_lodbrok_godemperor/

 

[LordDamien]

Yeah I have my own mod which I play. And you are right to say that nevercalled would do well to look at mods as a way of spicing things up.

His criticisms of the vanilla game are very valid though. I mostly play in keeping with what I see as the spirit of the game but I have friends who don't see the point of playing a game unless you play it to the max of the what the rules allow, and they do allow some pretty crazy stuff. Even without cheesy tactics, playing with a good knowledge and skill level will allow you to take off pretty quickly in almost all starts. Min/maxing makes that trajectory ridiculous.

Don't forget this: https://www.reddit.com/r/CrusaderKings/comments/4717zt/cheese_ragnar_lodbrok_godemperor/

Eh there is only one way to prove this theory. Since both you and OP thing the Vanilla game is easy if you have a good knowlage and skill level and if you min/Max
Why not start as a Zoroastrian count under the Abbasids in the 769 start. Go ahead both you and the Op start as that count in Vanilla and see what happens.
Can you surive long enough to see your religion spread.. or will the Abbasids crush you in mere years ?

Lets see how good knowlage of the game and Skill level combined with Min/Maxing will help you with that start.
Also do not forget to take screenshots or it did not happen.

 

[LordDamien]

Eh, that's not actually that hard anymore since the Caliph won't revoke your title until he gets up to Legalism 3 (and the religious revocation crown law). Started as the Zoro Duke in that start date and broke the back of the Caliph in about ~60 years. Would have taken longer as a Count, but probably still doable.

Do you have proof of you doing that.. ( Screenshots ). Just curious how you broke the back of the Caliph in 60 years.

 

[Dr Gonzo]

Eh there is only one way to prove this theory. Since both you and OP thing the Vanilla game is easy if you have a good knowlage and skill level and if you min/Max
Why not start as a Zoroastrian count under the Abbasids in the 769 start. Go ahead both you and the Op start as that count in Vanilla and see what happens.
Can you surive long enough to see your religion spread.. or will the Abbasids crush you in mere years ?

Lets see how good knowlage of the game and Skill level combined with Min/Maxing will help you with that start.
Also do not forget to take screenshots or it did not happen.

Ehhhhh.. I don't have much appetite for it.. The fact you know it can be done should suffice to tell you that we probably could if we could be bothered.

I've already done the whole Zoro WC thing back in the pre-Rajas days. Not got that much interest in revisiting it.

I'm currently having quite a relaxed game as the Zunis.

But like I said in my last post I don't really min/max the way the masters do.

 

[nevercalled]

Eh there is only one way to prove this theory. Since both you and OP thing the Vanilla game is easy if you have a good knowlage and skill level and if you min/Max
Why not start as a Zoroastrian count under the Abbasids in the 769 start. Go ahead both you and the Op start as that count in Vanilla and see what happens.
Can you surive long enough to see your religion spread.. or will the Abbasids crush you in mere years ?

Lets see how good knowlage of the game and Skill level combined with Min/Maxing will help you with that start.
Also do not forget to take screenshots or it did not happen.

np man.

am i supposed to stay as vassal or can i conquere Abbasids?

Give me a count u want to start from. ( anyway i think it doesn`t matter bcs emperor will create duches and split vassals).

Btw Abasids empire is not stable in that start and get split even without player interaction.

 

[Aries666]

np man.

am i supposed to stay as vassal or can i conquere Abbasids?

Give me a count u want to start from. ( anyway i think it doesn`t matter bcs emperor will create duches and split vassals).

Btw Abasids empire is not stable in that start and get split even without player interaction.

That's not really true at all, whether the Abbasids split or not is totally down to luck. I mean look at the Semien run I posted a few pages back. Even after me conquering all the way to K_Jerusalem they had still not fragmented despite facing constant decadence and shia revolts for 150 years whilst also facing external wars from both me and the Byzantines.

 

[nevercalled]

That's not really true at all, whether the Abbasids split or not is totally down to luck. I mean look at the Semien run I posted a few pages back. Even after me conquering all the way to K_Jerusalem they had still not fragmented despite facing constant decadence and shia revolts for 150 years whilst also facing external wars from both me and the Byzantines.

imo more often it split than not. When u conquere part of Abbas empire than it is more stable. Only not de jure provicnes are problematic so...

 

[Aries666]

imo more often it split than not. When u conquere part of Abbas empire than it is more stable. Only not de jure provicnes are problematic so...

How does conquering parts of an empire make it more stable? Sure their vassals will like them during an external war. However, if the emperor or caliph is regularly losing wars that leaves them depleted opening them up to faction revolts and increases their decadence (when Muslim) also reducing their ability to reduce decadence by landing family members.

 

[LordDamien]

np man.

am i supposed to stay as vassal or can i conquere Abbasids?

Give me a count u want to start from. ( anyway i think it doesn`t matter bcs emperor will create duches and split vassals).

Btw Abasids empire is not stable in that start and get split even without player interaction.

Start with the count who is Zoroastrian ( Not sure who that is.But he is the one you start with )

 

[nevercalled]

there are 13 counts. i will go random.

But bcs i played already as another religion under suni empire and just beat it with mercs i will try this time without mercs at all, only spy focus and fabricate claims.

 

[Baron Bratwurst]

Eh there is only one way to prove this theory. Since both you and OP thing the Vanilla game is easy if you have a good knowlage and skill level and if you min/Max
Why not start as a Zoroastrian count under the Abbasids in the 769 start. Go ahead both you and the Op start as that count in Vanilla and see what happens.
Can you surive long enough to see your religion spread.. or will the Abbasids crush you in mere years ?

EDIT: just noticed you were talking about zoros, not zunists. My post is all about zunists.

Step 1. Quickly conquer adjacent provinces and create k_afghanistan.
Step 2. Swear fealty to the Abbasids.
Step 3. Take Multan, fabricate claims on Baghdad and Cairo and take them. Now should have enough moral authority to reform as soon as you are independent.
Step 4. Join factions to increase council authority. The Caliph gives in to their demands quite often.
Step 5. Start/join a faction to oust the ruler and issue an ultimatum (or wait for someone to do it) during the Shia revolt, for example. The Abbasids can't do a thing without council approval now.
Step 6. Start an independence faction and present an ultimatum when the time is right (another Shia revolt, faction war etc). In my case, I had a support from sultan of Egypt so we both became independent. Abbasids didn't even try to siege down my provinces - they were too busy fightings Shias or rebels (can't recall now).

Bam! You get the first achievement.

Convert to Zoroastrinism, finish off the Abbasids.
Bam! The second achievement.

Then I got bored.
Although I must admit that toying with factions was quite fun. Should I or should I not join this faction? If yes, when? Will we stand a chance against the Caliph? How much faction power should I have? etc.

Shias had k_abyssinia but were holywar'ed recently and I let go of Multan after converting to avoid fighting on 3 fronts (Abbasids were striking back + huge internal faction revolt of zunists).

 

[Legionary Guard]

I don't know why you're getting so many disagrees.

I actually agree with most of OP's points, but his English is so bad I can barely understand it; and I downvote anything I physically can't understand out of principle.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

Eh, that's not actually that hard anymore since the Caliph won't revoke your title until he gets up to Legalism 3 (and the religious revocation crown law). Started as the Zoro Duke in that start date and broke the back of the Caliph in about ~60 years. Would have taken longer as a Count, but probably still doable.

I assure you that guy still revokes your titles regardless. He absolutely hates Zorastrians. every single game I've played as one has been a struggle to get him busy with some war (difficult but not impossible) so he has no time to revoke duchy titles.

 

[nevercalled]

Was easier than i expected.

2 starts from counts - different places.

Two different approaches one with the usage of force second just intrigue.

few notes:
- you can play as count as long as you want
- it is not worth to create your own kingdom
- games without min maxing so i think it is possible to do it much earlier

However it was fun to install zoro (or heresies) clainmants. OF course my grandson is a heir to empire

edit:
added zoro empire (from zoro clainmant). what is visible emperor don`t play aggressively even with all zoro vassals. He called only 2 holy wars, even not for holy places.
And btw i have seen like that huge empire with 30 k levies lost to 9 k revolt against tyrany. Ai is so broken just moving armies one side and back when enemy territory is spread that will loose just to the timer. With 2 wars at the same time AI give up at all.