this game is too easy

[Monphat]

So you're saying the devs should just nerf-bomb the game into the ground, or what?

Game has already been nerfed into the ground by coalitions, shattered retreats, Council's stupid behavior etc. Since PDX can't make a solid AI that would actually work and use game's mechanics, they try to increase difficulty by adding more and more arbitrary restrictions on players. In reality it doesn't make the game difficult, but makes it annoying.

Ideally devs should rewrite AI from the ground. Probably through the use of scripts emulating long range planning and ambitions.

Secondary option, in case AI can't be improved in a significant manner, is to make some use of existing platform and tinker with difficulty settings. Devs should make hard difficulty AI much more aggressive and ambitious, less easily controlled by players. Give vassals and factions more bite, current rebellions are a joke. If AI can't be made smart, at least make it brutal instead.

 

[iron0037]

Groogy once referenced this comic:

Spoiler

He compared CK2 to the latter, but it's really closer to a casual game (as others in this thread have stated). If you disagree, then you need to improve your CK2 skills . I want to earn my fun.

And that's not to say that casual games are bad. There's a place for them, and I have no problem with folks who play CK2 for casual purposes. But I would like Very Hard mode to reflect the real world very hard nature of a medieval WC.

 

[vandevere]

What you call nerfing, I would call making the game more fun. The fact that world conquests are so easy makes them boring. I've never done one because it's just pointless micromanagement to finish painting the map. I usually stop my game when I form an empire because there's no risk of anything going amiss by then (much earlier, honestly). I imagine that it's a sentiment shared by many other players because so few admit to ever completing a grand campaign.

If the game did a better job reflecting the near impossibility of maintaining a sprawling medieval empire, that would keep me engaged and playing. It would be rewarding if I managed through luck and stratagem to prevent the thing from imploding. But the game sorely lacks any late game surprises. Yes, you can opt to pace yourself. Yes, you can look for obscure personal goals to motivate you. Yes, you can try to start with the most impossibly hard character. But players shouldn't have to dig so deeply for entertainment.

But I'm not digging deeply for entertainment. I don't blob, though.

I'm playing 867 Start, Alfred of Wessex, and staying within Wessex's boundaries. I'm having fun with RP, Dynastic Simulator, and vassal management. Why should my playstyle be cramped or cored at the behest of another player?

That's why I'm feeling hopeful about the options the devs are including in the coming patch. It might be possible for you to have that harder game you want without coring MY game.

You see, this is the problem a lot of players don't get. Blobbers aren't the only players here; though, for a while there, it was looking like the game was being balanced solely for the blobbers, which had the effect of leaving everyone else out in the cold.

Maybe this new Options/Rules tab will help both sides have a better gaming experience...

 

[Aries666]

I would wager many people who call x Paradox game too easy have usually racked up 100's, likely 1000's of hours in said game. Frankly having spent so much time doing something if you still consider it difficult then you really are something of a moron.

 

[RagingJaws]

Game has already been nerfed into the ground by coalitions, shattered retreats, Council's stupid behavior etc. Since PDX can't make a solid AI that would actually work and use game's mechanics, they try to increase difficulty by adding more and more arbitrary restrictions on players. In reality it doesn't make the game difficult, but makes it annoying.

Ideally devs should rewrite AI from the ground. Probably through the use of scripts emulating long range planning and ambitions.

Secondary option, in case AI can't be improved in a significant manner, is to make some use of existing platform and tinker with difficulty settings. Devs should make hard difficulty AI much more aggressive and ambitious, less easily controlled by players. Give vassals and factions more bite, current rebellions are a joke. If AI can't be made smart, at least make it brutal instead.

I absolutely despise when players complain about the AI in a grand strategy game. In CK, there is so much going on that the AI has to react to in just it's own kingdom. I will admit that I don't know how the AI works outside of what the wiki says and even though t may be a simple system around AI Honor/Greed/Ambition/Zeal/Rationality checks but it works pretty damn well alongside the sandbox gameplay. As the player, you can formulate long term plans and then work on the short term goals. There is no AI in the world that can do that in a game like Crusader Kings and keep it playable for the player. There are just too many things going on.

There are dozens of titles out there that deserve to be called grand strategy with equally "poor" AI. All of them center around a single approach to making the game harder, which is to make the AI immune to some game rules and/or give it bonuses that the player has to overcome with min/max play. I'm one of those players that doesn't like to min/max every second of my gameplay.

Your complaint about shattered retreats is valid, which is why you can do away with it next patch without affecting achievements. As for the Council, I don't really consider it a restriction. You can listen to your council or not and there is an acceptable consequence for it, which considering how easy you find the game, is a trivial thing.

 

[iron0037]

But I'm not digging deeply for entertainment. I don't blob, though.

I'm playing 867 Start, Alfred of Wessex, and staying within Wessex's boundaries. I'm having fun with RP, Dynastic Simulator, and vassal management. Why should my playstyle be cramped or cored at the behest of another player?

That's why I'm feeling hopeful about the options the devs are including in the coming patch. It might be possible for you to have that harder game you want without coring MY game.

You see, this is the problem a lot of players don't get. Blobbers aren't the only players here; though, for a while there, it was looking like the game was being balanced solely for the blobbers, which had the effect of leaving everyone else out in the cold.

Maybe this new Options/Rules tab will help both sides have a better gaming experience...

Oh I totally understand that plenty of players are content with the current difficulty. Many others would prefer it be made easier and get frustrated anytime the game is made more difficult. I am also optimistic that the new game settings will help appease different play styles. Perhaps these changes will also do something for folks who desire things to be harder.

 

[nevercalled]

Sunni with a Christian liege is extremely easy in comparison as the lands within the realm fracture from gavelkind or some one county duke gets elected King/Emperor. Not remotely close to operating under an Iqta empire or Viceroyalties of the Byzantines.

King of hispania is also very easy. I specifically mentioned being a count in Galicia in Charlemagne start for a reason.

Tried Galciia.

Very easy start u can conquer north of Africa. And than either u create 10-15 vassals for your liege or for yoruself from tribals there. In the meantime u just need to help your liege once or twice in defensive spanish war.

Imo easier than Semien. U have 300 g free from decision so....:/

 

[LordDamien]

Tried Galciia.

Very easy start u can conquer north of Africa. And than either u create 10-15 vassals for your liege or for yoruself from tribals there. In the meantime u just need to help your liege once or twice in defensive spanish war.

Imo easier than Semien. U have 300 g free from decision so....:/

Yeah I doubt you did any of that. In fact I doubt you had even done half of the things you said you did. I think you are just confusing this game with a total war game or some other game and just came on here to troll us because in fact you tried the game and the AI just destroyed you and you came on here claiming its too easy but in fact its the opposite ( which mind you can not do what you said in a total war game either because well you will get destroyed by the AI )

And a clicking fest.. What are you even talking about and makes me think you never even played this game. This game is not a clicking fest as you claim..Not at all quite honestly its th opposite. Again I will state you are confusing this game with another game.

Also this game is more about you trying to see how great you can make your dynasty than by taking over the world. Granted in my current game ( I am playing with the GOT mod ). I made a custom family that is hell bent on ruining this one family that sold them out to there Liege Lord. Oh the great fun it is to play a family hell bent on revenge.. That is what makes this game great.. you create a story a goal..and you chase it.

 

[nevercalled]

Yeah I doubt you did any of that. In fact I doubt you had even done half of the things you said you did. I think you are just confusing this game with a total war game or some other game and just came on here to troll us because in fact you tried the game and the AI just destroyed you and you came on here claiming its too easy but in fact its the opposite ( which mind you can not do what you said in a total war game either because well you will get destroyed by the AI )

And a clicking fest.. What are you even talking about and makes me think you never even played this game. This game is not a clicking fest as you claim..Not at all quite honestly its th opposite. Again I will state you are confusing this game with another game.

Also this game is more about you trying to see how great you can make your dynasty than by taking over the world. Granted in my current game ( I am playing with the GOT mod ). I made a custom family that is hell bent on ruining this one family that sold them out to there Liege Lord. Oh the great fun it is to play a family hell bent on revenge.. That is what makes this game great.. you create a story a goal..and you chase it.

a bit earlier i gave prnts from Nomads and Semen.

here u have another game of nomads played only with 1 clan 5 counties to get 30 k pop than wardec everything what was possible (everything else was with alliances) after 14 years war u have this. Only LC without pillaging. 30 years more u have the whole world using only invasion CB. Above 600 direct vassals game starts to lag as crazy each month.

About Galicia as i said it is very easy situation u can fabricate claim on small suni county than holy war everything else.
If u want to buff u more u can conquere mali and Africa. When uhave 11-13 counties u have more troops than anything there and Umayad is too often busy fighting with Lombardy or France.

I can even start a new game and do what i have described before 790. In attached game i decided not to wardec anything else ( only some tributary wars) and watch what would happen. Usually there is just a long holy war where defender wins even when attacker has 2 times more army. Last holy war for Leon took 10 years to end with white peace. Just lol.

So in general i will support statement which was given here. When u play Galicia and survived first 10 years u won the game. However AI is quite dumb. Picture 1 is your starting position in Africa what is a cakewalk than u decide u want to win the game right now or wait and play sims.

 

[LordDamien]

Agreed. WC is actually the least engaging, most boring part of the game. I have loads more fun managing vassals, marrying children off, enjoying the Dynastic Simulator, and watching the AI realms lose their collective mind...

WC is pointless in my books and just a waste of time. Yes its fun to pain the world in the color of your nation. But if i wanted to do that.. I would play EU4 which is more of a game that is desgined for that sort of thing. When I am playing Ck2.. I am thinking about telling a story of a dynasty rise to power and taking my time and watching the world do its thing. in my current playthough in the game of thrones mod as a custom Dynasty. I started off as a high lord of one group of provinces ( Kayce ) and then I married into another family and now I have those lands. Not my Conquest but by marriage and waiting. The Mod also reflects on the need to have alliances more so than Vanilla. But anyway in this playthough already another family decided they would screw me over so i now have a blood feud with them because of it.

Anyway playing ck2 is about the long game not the short game. why take over the world so fast when you can watch and see what happens by doing the marriage game. Or by killing kings and queens and watching Chaos unfold right before your eyes.

For me Ck2 is not about becoming world emperor.. To me the game is about taking my time and watching the world though the eyes of my dynasty. How do they see what is happening in the world around them and what will they do

Question for all - Have any of you ever roleplayed as your current Char just by going with his traits ? ( Ie if he is cruel you act cruel to everyon etc ).

 

[vandevere]

WC is pointless in my books and just a waste of time. Yes its fun to pain the world in the color of your nation. But if i wanted to do that.. I would play EU4 which is more of a game that is desgined for that sort of thing. When I am playing Ck2.. I am thinking about telling a story of a dynasty rise to power and taking my time and watching the world do its thing. in my current playthough in the game of thrones mod as a custom Dynasty. I started off as a high lord of one group of provinces ( Kayce ) and then I married into another family and now I have those lands. Not my Conquest but by marriage and waiting. The Mod also reflects on the need to have alliances more so than Vanilla. But anyway in this playthough already another family decided they would screw me over so i now have a blood feud with them because of it.

Anyway playing ck2 is about the long game not the short game. why take over the world so fast when you can watch and see what happens by doing the marriage game. Or by killing kings and queens and watching Chaos unfold right before your eyes.

For me Ck2 is not about becoming world emperor.. To me the game is about taking my time and watching the world though the eyes of my dynasty. How do they see what is happening in the world around them and what will they do

Question for all - Have any of you ever roleplayed as your current Char just by going with his traits ? ( Ie if he is cruel you act cruel to everyon etc ).

Right now, I just started a 1066 Start as Vermandois. Yes. I'm playing a Karling. I want to see if I can get the karlings to 1453 as Rulers...

I know there's a challenge out there. But I don't do Iron Man. Ever.

 

[LordDamien]

Right now, I just started a 1066 Start as Vermandois. Yes. I'm playing a Karling. I want to see if I can get the karlings to 1453 as Rulers...

I know there's a challenge out there. But I don't do Iron Man. Ever.

Karlings... Karlings... Oh God Why the Karlings !.
I will be curious to see how you progress with it.. Can you keep a kingdom for that long without your siblings or other Karlings trying to dethrone you.
I mean besides always being good allies..Karlings love to fight each other for thrones

 

[Monphat]

I absolutely despise when players complain about the AI in a grand strategy game.

Sorry that your precious feelings were hurt, but I'll have to disagree with you here.

In CK, there is so much going on that the AI has to react to in just it's own kingdom. I will admit that I don't know how the AI works outside of what the wiki says and even though t may be a simple system around AI Honor/Greed/Ambition/Zeal/Rationality checks but it works pretty damn well alongside the sandbox gameplay. As the player, you can formulate long term plans and then work on the short term goals. There is no AI in the world that can do that in a game like Crusader Kings and keep it playable for the player. There are just too many things going on.

That is supposed to be an excuse for lack of challenge? I am very glad that you find enjoyment being big man on campus, beating poor NPC champs and playing one scenario after another without any opposition. If that is your definition of sandbox, grand strategy game and proper gameplay in general - good for you. Just don't assume that it is how it is objectively supposed to be.

There are dozens of titles out there that deserve to be called grand strategy with equally "poor" AI. All of them center around a single approach to making the game harder, which is to make the AI immune to some game rules and/or give it bonuses that the player has to overcome with min/max play. I'm one of those players that doesn't like to min/max every second of my gameplay.

Play on easy.

Your complaint about shattered retreats is valid, which is why you can do away with it next patch without affecting achievements. As for the Council, I don't really consider it a restriction. You can listen to your council or not and there is an acceptable consequence for it, which considering how easy you find the game, is a trivial thing.

Why so frosty? Council is a restriction. Imagine a box match between a good boxer (player) and a really bad one (AI). Referee (PDX) wants to make it more fair and challenging for the good one, so what does he do? Shape up the bad one? No, he just handcuffs good player to make it more fair. Bottom line: player will still defeat AI no matter what without any challenge, but will be forced to deal with annoying mechanics.

 

[RagingJaws]

Sorry that your precious feelings were hurt, but I'll have to disagree with you here.

My feelings were not hurt. Despise means to feel contempt for something. I explained why in another section of my post but I'm make it more simple.

Technology is just not at a level where the wide variety of computers accessible to the public for entertainment purposes can utilize an AI capable of more advanced processes, simulating human or near-human planning behavior in games where the variables are fluid and many. I'm sure it's possible with today's most advanced supercomputers to come close to something like that but it's not within the reach of the average player.

That is supposed to be an excuse for lack of challenge? I am very glad that you find enjoyment being big man on campus, beating poor NPC champs and playing one scenario after another without any opposition. If that is your definition of sandbox, grand strategy game and proper gameplay in general - good for you. Just don't assume that it is how it is objectively supposed to be.

I enjoy playing somewhere in the middle. Being the big man isn't as fun. Don't make assumptions on my style from your misunderstanding of pretty much everything I've been talking about.

Play on easy.

I play on normal. It's fair. I don't like advantages for either the player or the AI, especially with strategy games where there is an unequal start. Min-Maxing isn't really a style of play that meshes when you are RPing, which is usually how I lean when making decisions in game.

Why so frosty? Council is a restriction. Imagine a box match between a good boxer (player) and a really bad one (AI). Referee (PDX) wants to make it more fair and challenging for the good one, so what does he do? Shape up the bad one? No, he just handcuffs good player to make it more fair. Bottom line: player will still defeat AI no matter what without any challenge, but will be forced to deal with annoying mechanics.

I'm not frosty at all. You seem quite agitated though but it's hard to express and be understood properly through the medium of the internet, so I may be wrong. Unless you're just baiting me for something, in which case good job. Fell for it.

We have a differing view on the council. It sort of shackles a player, if you let it (or RP a weak ruler) but you can safely ignore the mechanic if you're strong or bypass it if you have untapped support in the realm. The real shackles are the negative modifiers for strong vassals that get left out because there isn't enough council spots, causing unfair realm friction. Again, mostly safely ignored if you're strong enough. I expect to see changes down the road, either through official patches or clever modding, that improve upon the mechanic.

 

[zharliette]

I think most of the complaints really stem from a problem inherent in the game. Even though you play characters, you are still one man ruling over a kingdom for centuries with near absolute knowledge and a high level of competency and control over everything. Essentially, you are not a character, you are a god. Of course it won't be that hard. In such conditions it's really hard to recreate history which was a product of lots of different people doing different things with limited knowledge and varying degrees of competency. And any system that tries to circumvent this issue and make realms more instable will inevitably feel like an arbitrary restriction because it can't fundamentally be realistic. So I guess the roleplay and grand strategy aspects would need some rebalancing since at the moment, not roleplaying will make you overpowered.

 

[Monphat]

Technology is just not at a level where the wide variety of computers accessible to the public for entertainment purposes can utilize an AI capable of more advanced processes, simulating human or near-human planning behavior in games where the variables are fluid and many. I'm sure it's possible with today's most advanced supercomputers to come close to something like that but it's not within the reach of the average player.

Correct, but it is not an excuse not to solve a problem that does exist for a sizeable chunk of players. As I said in my other post, if making AI smarter is impossible because of variety of reasons, you can still make it more challenging by playing around with its settings. Paradox should really make different difficulty settings with varying modifiers and/or buffs for AI. If someone wants to RP in a peaceful land, they can play on easy/normal. If someone wants to really feel the danger, they should play on difficult.

I enjoy playing somewhere in the middle. Being the big man isn't as fun. Don't make assumptions on my style from your misunderstanding of pretty much everything I've been talking about.

Don't worry I understand what you are talking about well enough.

We have a differing view on the council. It sort of shackles a player, if you let it (or RP a weak ruler) but you can safely ignore the mechanic if you're strong or bypass it if you have untapped support in the realm. The real shackles are the negative modifiers for strong vassals that get left out because there isn't enough council spots, causing unfair realm friction. Again, mostly safely ignored if you're strong enough. I expect to see changes down the road, either through official patches or clever modding, that improve upon the mechanic.

That's the issue. Council is supposed to be a big problem and legit mechanic, but it is just a nuisance instead. Too persistent to constantly annoy player, too weak to be a real problem. I really wish that Paradox could do something about factions and Council that would make both of those real threats.

 

[zharliette]

That's the issue. Council is supposed to be a big problem and legit mechanic, but it is just a nuisance instead. Too persistent to constantly annoy player, too weak to be a real problem. I really wish that Paradox could do something about factions and Council that would make both of those real threats.

Pre-RoI factions were dangerous but they changed it. I'm not sure what was their reasoning, since I wasn't on the forums back then but I've seen lots of people wanting them back. Also, if my memory serves, succession wars between pretenders happened way more often in earlier versions and they were an actual threat. I wonder whether these things can be reintroduced as game rules. I mean, I gather that assassination is brought back with game rules so the old faction system would be a nice addition as well.

 

[DukeDayve]

All Paradox games are pretty easy once you get a few duchies under your belt. It was a lot more difficult before the Rajas of India expansion though, when faction rebellions and adventurer armies could be huge and very very dangerous. Also before retinues the game was a lot more difficult.

 

[Narvait]

Before Conclave it was ridiculuosly easy.
After Conclave I have already lost to one faction and white peaced the other.

 

[nevercalled]

I think most of the complaints really stem from a problem inherent in the game. Even though you play characters, you are still one man ruling over a kingdom for centuries with near absolute knowledge and a high level of competency and control over everything. Essentially, you are not a character, you are a god. .

something is in this statement. U have too much information about everything in the kingdom about vassals and characters.

Is there a good mod to make this game more like EU IV ?

That's the issue. Council is supposed to be a big problem and legit mechanic, but it is just a nuisance instead. Too persistent to constantly annoy player, too weak to be a real problem. I really wish that Paradox could do something about factions and Council that would make both of those real threats.

Yea Council is broken u can change/fire council whenever u want and u have free characters from piety.

I think that getting new nobles shouldn`t be so easy. After all u can even buy favor and invite to court what is also insane.