This DLC has been disappointing.

[Vin55]

The Problem is that if you are stuck as it is right now you have kurds which are more of a pp drain than anything else. Then you have all expansions locked in 40/41 that is without the army being debuffed. I would make them far easier to access and compress some of them. It is not all bad there are some good points in them but u need to rebalance a little like with Spain after la Resistance.

 

[TalyonUngol]

I Agree with some turkish Focus Paths are taking more time then it should be otherwise they aren´t really useful anymore. Even some Youtuber/Streamers mentioned that it tooks too long on their Early Access but it seems to be we got too the same Version of it.

I am not against Minors being weaker than majors, but, this is on the level of France terms of focus tree bad or USA Bad. Esp USA bad. You cannot do anything until so late in the game that everyones economy is 4x your strength and you are supposed to fight them?

Seems poorly done.

 

[Dalnar]

This is the first DLC for HOI4 I actually have hard time buying, because it offers pretty much nothing to me. I bought previous country packs because of the extra features and not because of the trees. I usually play historically and these trees seems to be mostly tailored for alt-history players. So I guess I could say the DLC is dissappointment for me as well, as for the first time I have no reason to buy it.

 

[Vin55]

Also France as a major in WW2 is more a free french propaganda ploi than realism. They did not play a role after 1939/40. Vichy was more supportive to Germany, and free France and la Resistance where little problems to German war effort. For real reistance look into the history of Serbia or Poland. There are only The US, UK, Germany, Soviets and Japan as real major powers in 1940. Italy as it is now is if ai controled nowhere in that position, the same with any other nation.
Turkey should also have about the same potential as hungary/romania population wise and economical wise. But you dont have any fun possibilities and the only thing as fascist you get is Rhodos not even as core but as usless manpower drain ^^.

 

[Vin55]

in the end he explains the problems, save the faction name ^^ but yeah too late to become relevant also the peace conference shows the other problem where you can nothing if you join too late.

 

[TalyonUngol]

in the end he explains the problems, save the faction name ^^ but yeah too late to become relevant also the peace conference shows the other problem where you can nothing if you join too late.

Yep... pretty much what I said at least about how long it takes. I mean, yea, he did pretty well but you could tell he was dissatisfied with the Ottoman focuses.

 

[nervi]

Focusses should be about choices, but if it takes too long, you dont have a choice, but are forced to take the fastest path to even have a chance at all to declare war on greece for example.
Its annoying like hell.

Yep... pretty much what I said at least about how long it takes. I mean, yea, he did pretty well but you could tell he was dissatisfied with the Ottoman focuses.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Focusses should be about choices, but if it takes too long, you dont have a choice, but are forced to take the fastest path to even have a chance at all to declare war on greece for example.
Its annoying like hell.

I have no issue with difficulty as a country as even France is difficult to survive against Germany, but at least -they- have options to do something early to bolster their chances.

 

[Beagá]

Ok but IS It playing as Turkey worse than playing RAID: Shadow Legends?

 

[TalyonUngol]

Ok but IS It playing as Turkey worse than playing RAID: Shadow Legends?

I dont know what that game is >.>

 

[Cpt.Cross]

I agree with the OP. Haven't even touched the Turkey game yet but when I saw how big the tree was and how nearly every single focus was another 70 Days my hours of experience in this game knows exactly how it will go.

As any minor if you haven't started expanding before the war you will be playing WW1 simulator for the remainder as by the end '41 the divisiion spam and slowdown has started to kick in. and you wont have the industry to dislodge.

I really would love another tree like Mexico. It was a minor with an even worse industry than turkey but thanks to its short focuses you could jump between the changing situation and more importantly get to the Meat of the tree before the game ends, It was great.

Its not fun to have a large tree for the sake of a large tree. People moan about Italy's small focus tree but theres not a single useless focus in it.

 

[TalyonUngol]

I agree with the OP. Haven't even touched the Turkey game yet but when I saw how big the tree was and how nearly every single focus was another 70 Days my hours of experience in this game knows exactly how it will go.

As any minor if you haven't started expanding before the war you will be playing WW1 simulator for the remainder as by the end '41 the divisiion spam and slowdown has started to kick in. and you wont have the industry to dislodge.

I really would love another tree like Mexico. It was a minor with an even worse industry than turkey but thanks to its short focuses you could jump between the changing situation and more importantly get to the Meat of the tree before the game ends, It was great.

Its not fun to have a large tree for the sake of a large tree. People moan about Italy's small focus tree but theres not a single useless focus in it.

Greece is actually a really good one. I might try Bulgaria and see how it goes, but I am -immensely- disappointed that Bulgaria can't reform Byzantium with the Tsar Ferdinand.

 

[MrNewVegas]

The Heraklion Convention doesn't even have an option to remove the Romanian Guarantee on Turkey, so you get dragged into the axis of you aren't blitzing Romania

 

[Emperor_Napoleon]

I agree with the OP. Haven't even touched the Turkey game yet but when I saw how big the tree was and how nearly every single focus was another 70 Days my hours of experience in this game knows exactly how it will go.

As any minor if you haven't started expanding before the war you will be playing WW1 simulator for the remainder as by the end '41 the divisiion spam and slowdown has started to kick in. and you wont have the industry to dislodge.

I really would love another tree like Mexico. It was a minor with an even worse industry than turkey but thanks to its short focuses you could jump between the changing situation and more importantly get to the Meat of the tree before the game ends, It was great.

Its not fun to have a large tree for the sake of a large tree. People moan about Italy's small focus tree but theres not a single useless focus in it.

After using the Faster Focus Trees (Halved) mod for basically all of my non-ironman games, it's so hard to go back to the vanilla 70-day times for almost everything. Feels unnecessarily long and restrictive.

 

[Jays298]

And the biggest thign here is... its not fun t o sit there until 1941 and do nothing. Its one of the reasons why USA is one of the most boring countries ever.

Its poor design of the focus tree. I might even find Bulgaria more fun... though it looks like the worst tree over all... weird that the Tsar doesn't get to reform Byzantium despite his own personal spirit.

I rather watch paint dry though than play Turkey.

Greece actually is much better now that I saw feedback's video.

My current game is USA. Usually as USA I join the allies after the fall of France, usually when Germany goes after Norway. That's about mid 1940.

There's also a war with Mexico and a bigger military build up. So I guess for me personally it's not a boring country to play as you get an extra year to build up but really need it for economic reasons.

As far as the DLC being disappointing, they should have really make the Ottoman thing a half year event fait accompli kind of thing. Then allow the player to develop or expand from there.

I think the criticism is valid because events / focuses related to Greece, Bulgaria should be allowed to take place near the same time the Axis events occur, not a year later (1940 or later).

Plus a lot of Axis actions taken place under a basic power vacuum in that area. If the Ottomans reasserted their authority in the area, it might change how Italy and the others act.

 

[TalyonUngol]

My current game is USA. Usually as USA I join the allies after the fall of France, usually when Germany goes after Norway. That's about mid 1940.

There's also a war with Mexico and a bigger military build up. So I guess for me personally it's not a boring country to play as you get an extra year to build up but really need it for economic reasons.

As far as the DLC being disappointing, they should have really make the Ottoman thing a half year event fait accompli kind of thing. Then allow the player to develop or expand from there.

I think the criticism is valid because events / focuses related to Greece, Bulgaria should be allowed to take place near the same time the Axis events occur, not a year later (1940 or later).

Plus a lot of Axis actions taken place under a basic power vacuum in that area. If the Ottomans reasserted their authority in the area, it might change how Italy and the others act.

I understand that for the USA, they SHOULD be entering at a later stage because of their position. They have a massive economy from the very beggining and its not hard to remove the debuffs from her either. USA is a powerhouse and can single handedly smash the axis pretty easily.

It's different for Turkey. Turkey will not have built up and my complaints have been complaints voiced by content creaters. It takes way too long to progress down the tree and it takes way too long to get started as a minor nation that already has an uphill battle ahead.

 

[Rashie]

Uh. No. I am complaining that it takes too long. It's IMPOSSIBLE to actually do anything as Turkey with this focus tree because of its length. As I have pointed out with the math, you cannot reform the ottoman decisions until 1940/1. Meaning, that it will -not- be possible to do anything as the Ottomans because... I know this is hard for you to accept but... uh... Germany is extremely powerful and turkey will also be an enemy.

If you are so confident in -your- personal abilities to do this in 1940/1 then I have a challenge for you. I'll pit my Germany against your Turkey. I will go to war with you when you get the decisions to reform the ottomans. Let me fast forward to whats going to happen. I'm going to invade you from Greece/Bulgaria, Russia, Africa, the islands around turkey as well as naval invasions. I will have over 200+ civilian factories and well over 200+ Militarys compared to lets be generous and say you get a goood 90/50 factories. And I donmt think you'll get half of that by 1941 as Turkey, but lets give you the benifit. However, your manpower will be below 200k while mine, on extensive, will be in the 3 millions. I will own ALl of America, Russia, and the allies. I could even come to invade you from Iraq as whats to stop me from declaring war on Iraq to get the advantage.

But you can't since you are a democracy until around maybe early 39 but by then Ive already defeated the allies and have surpassed you exponentially.

If you can defeat me. Take berlin and capitulate me, with 200k manpower. I will concede that you are right and that Im terrible at this game

That doesn't really strike me as a campaign that's impossible to win as Turkey in single player for people with a solid understanding of game systems. It is against players, but definitely doable with the way the AI operates in this game. It'll be an uphill lengthy battle, but outright impossible, no.

 

[TalyonUngol]

That doesn't really strike me as a campaign that's impossible to win as Turkey in single player for people with a solid understanding of game systems. It is against players, but definitely doable with the way the AI operates in this game. It'll be an uphill lengthy battle, but outright impossible, no.

I guess I just don't know how to defeat an enemy with 300+ Diviions with only 48 WHILE also taking all of the land you need in a peace conference, which means you have to be aggressive....

 

[Rashie]

I guess I just don't know how to defeat an enemy with 300+ Diviions with only 48 WHILE also taking all of the land you need in a peace conference, which means you have to be aggressive....

No one ever claimed conquering Eurasia as Turkey while trying to restore the Ottomans would be easy or fast, but that's a very different thing from being impossible. There are countries in this game in far worse positions that you can conquer the whole world with, if you put your mind to it.

 

[MobiusTwo]

Overall, I think there's a balance between historical plausibility and practical gameplay that hasn't been reached yet. I've said it before on these forums, but the "meat" of this game is 1936-1939. If you aren't able to accomplish at least a few of your goals by then, your country probably just isn't going to be strong enough to do anything in the late game. At the same time, I totally understand why Greece shouldn't be able to conquer half of Europe by 1940.