This DLC has been disappointing.

[AnssiA]

Why is it terrible for game balance? Are you saying as Germany you're going to lose to the Austro-Hungarian Empire? Sounds like a L2P issue right there, but im assuming you are meaning something else so what do you mean by terrible for game balance?

And since you're so good at this game, I have to ask. How do you defeat Italy and Germany with only 100K manpower, 50 civi8lians and 20 militarys in 1942? I am always willing to learn if you are going to teach. I mean, since you can defeat Germany as Bhutan according to you.

Generally by letting the AI suicide its forces into your fortified positions while waiting for the allies to do something.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Generally by letting the AI suicide its forces into your fortified positions while waiting for the allies to do something.

Then the peace conference comes in and you get absolutely nothing because the mechanics of the peace conference won't allow you to do what you say. Defense means diddly squat.

The game, in its current state, just doesn't support the Ottoman side of the turkey tree. Now the facist side might be much better. As it is though the non-aligned ottoman side is awful.

 

[Vin55]

The thing is France is also supposed to be slower than Germany. Turkey is on the other hand so slow that there is no point of going for it if you play iron man. The best really is to play co ob with one being Germany ^^.
And yes US allies or the Canadian brotherhood gang makes 0 sense there is no incentive for them to continue the war once England lost the war.

 

[Spelaren]

Generally by letting the AI suicide its forces into your fortified positions while waiting for the allies to do something.

Even that rarely is enough... You could if you wanted to singlehandedly defeat the allies in Africa, and naval invade Britain by yourself, only for Italy and Germany to steal all territories and not even give you a sliver in north africa.

 

[TalyonUngol]

The thing is France is also supposed to be slower than Germany. Turkey is on the other hand so slow that there is no point of going for it if you play iron man. The best really is to play co ob with one being Germany ^^.
And yes US allies or the Canadian brotherhood gang makes 0 sense there is no incentive for them to continue the war once England lost the war.

And France isn't slower than Germany. Napoleon France is -extremely- overpowered, which is great fun honestly. It's -fun- which is the point of a video game. Ottoman Turkey or Turkey in general is just an absolute waste of time. You cannot do anything. Not with 100k manpower vs the endless horde of German tanks.

 

[Vin55]

Yea I meant more historic. The fun here is totally lost because there is no way to get there... I mean even feedback looked bad as Greece although the achievement is no easier you are actually weaker than before...

 

[Tsavong]

Even that rarely is enough... You could if you wanted to singlehandedly defeat the allies in Africa, and naval invade Britain by yourself, only for Italy and Germany to steal all territories and not even give you a sliver in north africa.

Yes, exactly :
Yesterday i played the netherlands and joined the axis for one achievement . ( hold dutch states to 45)I helped taking out france and defended the atlantikwall. Killed about 1.5 million british and american soldiers doing so, then conquered great britain in 43 , sank the whole british navy for another av and my war participation against allies 12% . And that cause italy and germany fought so bad that they lost many soldiers achievin nothing..
Peace mechanics make no sense.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Yea I meant more historic. The fun here is totally lost because there is no way to get there... I mean even feedback looked bad as Greece although the achievement is no easier you are actually weaker than before...

Holy crap. Thats an easy Byzantium! Ok, I will be changing my thoughts on Greece. it's MUCH better than Turkey. I think Greece is the hidden gem.

 

[KDEstroy]

Why is it terrible for game balance? Are you saying as Germany you're going to lose to the Austro-Hungarian Empire? Sounds like a L2P issue right there, but im assuming you are meaning something else so what do you mean by terrible for game balance?

And since you're so good at this game, I have to ask. How do you defeat Italy and Germany with only 100K manpower, 50 civi8lians and 20 militarys in 1942? I am always willing to learn if you are going to teach. I mean, since you can defeat Germany as Bhutan according to you.

It is terrible for game balance IF Turkey can become a superpower and conquer all of southern Europe and the Middle East by 1939. It is terrible for game balance because it would make Turkey far too easy to play. Minors should not be extremely overpowered.

1. If Axis holds Greece, build forts in the European side of Turkey, entrench your 20 width infantry there, make sure you have entrenchment buffs in your field marshal, get 1942 engineers, and wait for the Axis to attack you. You will wear them down in a war of attrition. Seriously the AI can't deal with 50% entrenchment buffs. When your generals level up be sure to give them entrenchment and infantry buffs too.
2. Otherwise, if Greece is still in Allied control, send a few divisions there to prevent an Italian breakthrough, and grab 10 divisions to invade the heel of the boot of Italy. By this time Italian navy should have been crippled or at least greatly weakened by Allies, 200 naval bombers and your obsolete navy should make short work of what's left. Secure the one province wide isthmus, Italians will only be able to attack you 4 divs at a time. Occasionally cycle your troops (retreat low-org troops and replace them with fresh reinforcements). With the above strategy you should have a KDR of 3:1 or better.
3. After the Axis troops have been weakened. start to expand from your foothold. You should at least have enough light tanks by this time for a couple of tank divs. Encircle 10-20 weak Axis divisions, then dig in again, wait for the counter attack.
4. By 1944, you should have tied down or destroyed enough Axis forces that the USSR is still alive. If you can get air superiority rush nukes. Otherwise continue the bite-and-hold strategy until you can field a decent number of medium tanks. In any case Germany will eventually run out of manpower, and the Soviets will eventually start to push them back.

 

[Edungeon]

I very much prefer a slow focus tree with more story, I'm sick of flipping every country to another ideology by 1938. Enjoy the journey and then the world war without easy early game land grabs

 

[ThaHoward]

It is almost like these nations are minor nations, and are mostly at the mercy of the Great Powers and their ambition.

 

[Spelaren]

It is terrible for game balance IF Turkey can become a superpower and conquer all of southern Europe and the Middle East by 1939. It is terrible for game balance because it would make Turkey far too easy to play. Minors should not be extremely overpowered.

1. If Axis holds Greece, build forts in the European side of Turkey, entrench your 20 width infantry there, make sure you have entrenchment buffs in your field marshal, get 1942 engineers, and wait for the Axis to attack you. You will wear them down in a war of attrition. Seriously the AI can't deal with 50% entrenchment buffs. When your generals level up be sure to give them entrenchment and infantry buffs too.
2. Otherwise, if Greece is still in Allied control, send a few divisions there to prevent an Italian breakthrough, and grab 10 divisions to invade the heel of the boot of Italy. By this time Italian navy should have been crippled or at least greatly weakened by Allies, 200 naval bombers and your obsolete navy should make short work of what's left. Secure the one province wide isthmus, Italians will only be able to attack you 4 divs at a time. Occasionally cycle your troops (retreat low-org troops and replace them with fresh reinforcements). With the above strategy you should have a KDR of 3:1 or better.
3. After the Axis troops have been weakened. start to expand from your foothold. You should at least have enough light tanks by this time for a couple of tank divs. Encircle 10-20 weak Axis divisions, then dig in again, wait for the counter attack.
4. By 1944, you should have tied down or destroyed enough Axis forces that the USSR is still alive. If you can get air superiority rush nukes. Otherwise continue the bite-and-hold strategy until you can field a decent number of medium tanks. In any case Germany will eventually run out of manpower, and the Soviets will eventually start to push them back.

And afterwards the USSR will steal your territory in the peace conference.

 

[Reinner]

Ottoman Turkey or Turkey in general is just an absolute waste of time. You cannot do anything. Not with 100k manpower vs the endless horde of German tanks.

Or maybe you didn't played the game long enough to figure out proper strategy... the expansion has been out for couple of hours and because you can't defeat Germany with Turkey they are now useless?

How exactly do you expect for a single minor that is going through slow development process, has civil war and completely erases all Ataturk's laws which destabilizes the entire country to be able to take on Germany completely alone?

You do realize 4 major powers (USSR, USA, England, France) + the rest of the minors were required to completely bring down the German war machine in actual history.

 

[krokobone]

I somewhat agree with this assesment. Tough my complaint would be that not enough is explained in the Turkish focus tree.
Its objectivly wrong if i have to look for the Dev diary on Turkey in order to figure out why things aren't happening.
Two examples:

1. Peace at home
   Ismet Inonu needs to be either the country leader or be a political advisor.
   You can only get him when taking "Continiue the Policy of Estatism" Focus. Yet if you go with "Fully integrate the Is Bank" you're not blocked to take "Peace at home" eventough you'l never be able to compelte its criteria.
2. Pivot to the Past
   The Ottoman loyalists have been invited back to active service
   1. Nowhere does this focus indicate that you need to pick the "Demokrat Parti" during the election to force a civil war by the Kemalsits.

I hope these are the only litle things in the Turkish focus tree, but i fear they're not alone. I'm not going to judge anything else of the DLC yet because i didn't try everything out yet.

Thank you for sharing this, I have just tried out the expansion and I got stuck at the "Pivot to the Past" focus. I didn't have the slightest idea that I should pick the Demokrat Parti during the election.. it's not very good game design, to say the least.

 

[Iskulya]

What you're really complaining about isn't that it takes too long, but that it is too hard. You're complaining about not being able to "snipe" countries before they have been annexed or occupied by other countries, so that it is harder to do than it was before 1.10.

This is a good thing, actually. The Byzantine Empire is a silly thing, and so is the Ottoman Empire. It SHOULD be an uphill struggle to bring them back. Seriously. You're complaining about Turkey not being able to compete directly with Germany and Italy? This sounds like it is working as designed and intended to me, and is a good thing.

And again, these things aren't even hard to do at all. They're just *harder* than they were before, which is not saying much.

 

[TalyonUngol]

What you're really complaining about isn't that it takes too long, but that it is too hard. You're complaining about not being able to "snipe" countries before they have been annexed or occupied by other countries, so that it is harder to do than it was before 1.10.

This is a good thing, actually. The Byzantine Empire is a silly thing, and so is the Ottoman Empire. It SHOULD be an uphill struggle to bring them back. Seriously. You're complaining about Turkey not being able to compete directly with Germany and Italy? This sounds like it is working as designed and intended to me, and is a good thing.

And again, these things aren't even hard to do at all. They're just *harder* than they were before, which is not saying much.

Uh. No. I am complaining that it takes too long. It's IMPOSSIBLE to actually do anything as Turkey with this focus tree because of its length. As I have pointed out with the math, you cannot reform the ottoman decisions until 1940/1. Meaning, that it will -not- be possible to do anything as the Ottomans because... I know this is hard for you to accept but... uh... Germany is extremely powerful and turkey will also be an enemy.

If you are so confident in -your- personal abilities to do this in 1940/1 then I have a challenge for you. I'll pit my Germany against your Turkey. I will go to war with you when you get the decisions to reform the ottomans. Let me fast forward to whats going to happen. I'm going to invade you from Greece/Bulgaria, Russia, Africa, the islands around turkey as well as naval invasions. I will have over 200+ civilian factories and well over 200+ Militarys compared to lets be generous and say you get a goood 90/50 factories. And I donmt think you'll get half of that by 1941 as Turkey, but lets give you the benifit. However, your manpower will be below 200k while mine, on extensive, will be in the 3 millions. I will own ALl of America, Russia, and the allies. I could even come to invade you from Iraq as whats to stop me from declaring war on Iraq to get the advantage.

But you can't since you are a democracy until around maybe early 39 but by then Ive already defeated the allies and have surpassed you exponentially.

If you can defeat me. Take berlin and capitulate me, with 200k manpower. I will concede that you are right and that Im terrible at this game

 

[TalyonUngol]

Or maybe you didn't played the game long enough to figure out proper strategy... the expansion has been out for couple of hours and because you can't defeat Germany with Turkey they are now useless?

How exactly do you expect for a single minor that is going through slow development process, has civil war and completely erases all Ataturk's laws which destabilizes the entire country to be able to take on Germany completely alone?

You do realize 4 major powers (USSR, USA, England, France) + the rest of the minors were required to completely bring down the German war machine in actual history.

Well, oh wise one, what -is- the strategy for defeating Italy and Germany with a mere 24-48 men and about 200k manpower in 1940/1 where Germany will have well over 2 million and field armies of about 200+ divisions versus your 48.

You will have to attack into Greece that Italy owns. You will have to attack into Vichy france that the axis owns. So please, what -is- the strategy to win. Cause you are telling me im bad, but yo udon't offer anything constructive.

 

[TalyonUngol]

It is terrible for game balance IF Turkey can become a superpower and conquer all of southern Europe and the Middle East by 1939. It is terrible for game balance because it would make Turkey far too easy to play. Minors should not be extremely overpowered.

1. If Axis holds Greece, build forts in the European side of Turkey, entrench your 20 width infantry there, make sure you have entrenchment buffs in your field marshal, get 1942 engineers, and wait for the Axis to attack you. You will wear them down in a war of attrition. Seriously the AI can't deal with 50% entrenchment buffs. When your generals level up be sure to give them entrenchment and infantry buffs too.
2. Otherwise, if Greece is still in Allied control, send a few divisions there to prevent an Italian breakthrough, and grab 10 divisions to invade the heel of the boot of Italy. By this time Italian navy should have been crippled or at least greatly weakened by Allies, 200 naval bombers and your obsolete navy should make short work of what's left. Secure the one province wide isthmus, Italians will only be able to attack you 4 divs at a time. Occasionally cycle your troops (retreat low-org troops and replace them with fresh reinforcements). With the above strategy you should have a KDR of 3:1 or better.
3. After the Axis troops have been weakened. start to expand from your foothold. You should at least have enough light tanks by this time for a couple of tank divs. Encircle 10-20 weak Axis divisions, then dig in again, wait for the counter attack.
4. By 1944, you should have tied down or destroyed enough Axis forces that the USSR is still alive. If you can get air superiority rush nukes. Otherwise continue the bite-and-hold strategy until you can field a decent number of medium tanks. In any case Germany will eventually run out of manpower, and the Soviets will eventually start to push them back.

1. You'll have to deal with naval invasions and fichy france side, with only about 48 troops if im being generous and 200k manpower being generous. You also have the islands to deal with. Bulgaria likes to join the axis too so you might have to deal with that side as well.

2. You will lose just based off of peace conference. oops. All that effort for nothing.

3. You won't be able to expand because you have no manpower now and no equipment.

Sorry. I've played enough to realize the problems that the game has in terms of these late bloomers. Even Manchuko is better.

 

[TalyonUngol]

And the biggest thign here is... its not fun t o sit there until 1941 and do nothing. Its one of the reasons why USA is one of the most boring countries ever.

Its poor design of the focus tree. I might even find Bulgaria more fun... though it looks like the worst tree over all... weird that the Tsar doesn't get to reform Byzantium despite his own personal spirit.

I rather watch paint dry though than play Turkey.

Greece actually is much better now that I saw feedback's video.

 

[keyframer]

While I understand that France is a major and turkey is a minor, there are plenty of other minor nations that get war goals earlier on that do not have to deal with this like Turkey does. It's just stupid.

I Agree with some turkish Focus Paths are taking more time then it should be otherwise they aren´t really useful anymore. Even some Youtuber/Streamers mentioned that it tooks too long on their Early Access but it seems to be we got too the same Version of it.