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TalyonUngol

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So, I did some testing with the focuses. Im not going to get into Bulgaria so this is about turkey and Greece.

This review has been edited as new information has been given, but this was a first look review anyway.

Greece is the best of the three trees. Early war goals, good economic focuses, a medium sized focus tree that won't be gone quickly like italy but wont take forever like the USA, Turkey or France. it's not heavily PP focused like Turkey is either. So Greece is the better one of the three. I haven't played too much of it, but the few games I did, I see the way to play and it works in your favor for early conquest, early byzantium before 1939 which gives you some help in preparing for war with the allies.



The biggest disappoint has been Turkey. I looked around and did the math, trying to figure out how long it will take for you actually get ready to go for the Ottomans. If you ignore the army reform and focus on going as quickly down the path as you can manage, it takes 1715 days to reach the focus: reclaim the fallen empire. That means it takes 4.7 years in order to get to this focus, meaning... well. Late 1940 which is: Yugoslavia gone, france gone. Greece gone. All of which, you have to go to war with.

So its late 1940 and Germany and Italy have now become super powerful in Africa and Europe with 100+ Civilians and Military factories while more than likely, you're stuck with barely 40 civilians.

You will -not- be able to compete. This game requires you to have early wars in order to actually get anywhere with these minor countries but you won't be able to. You're stuck until 1940/1 reforming your political tree while everyone else is having fun and dominating. Sorry, but its not going to be feasiable to fight the super Germany by yourself in order to get anywhere.

Most of these focuses should be 35 days. Not 70. It once again shows the weakness of these trees just like the current France tree, where you wont even get half way done with your entire tree by 45.

I am immesnely disappointed with what I see.




Edit: I played more and saw Feedback actually doing the Greece with Byzantium. Greece is by far the best of the three nations in terms of their focus tree. They have the shortest one imo in terms of length, they get to have an early war with Turkey, its much easier to get the byzantium achievment. Over all, its just better to play Greece out of the three.

Now, I could be wrong on Bulgaria as maybe im missing something with the Tsar, but so far, Bulgaria just looks bad.



Edit 2: Alright, so the beta came around and the tree looks much better. I'll have to give some playtesting though to make another review.
 
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krios41

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I somewhat agree with this assesment. Tough my complaint would be that not enough is explained in the Turkish focus tree.
Its objectivly wrong if i have to look for the Dev diary on Turkey in order to figure out why things aren't happening.
Two examples:
  1. Peace at home
    Ismet Inonu needs to be either the country leader or be a political advisor.
    You can only get him when taking "Continiue the Policy of Estatism" Focus. Yet if you go with "Fully integrate the Is Bank" you're not blocked to take "Peace at home" eventough you'l never be able to compelte its criteria.
  2. Pivot to the Past
    The Ottoman loyalists have been invited back to active service
    1. Nowhere does this focus indicate that you need to pick the "Demokrat Parti" during the election to force a civil war by the Kemalsits.
I hope these are the only litle things in the Turkish focus tree, but i fear they're not alone. I'm not going to judge anything else of the DLC yet because i didn't try everything out yet.
 
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TalyonUngol

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I somewhat agree with this assesment. Tough my complaint would be that not enough is explained in the Turkish focus tree.
Its objectivly wrong if i have to look for the Dev diary on Turkey in order to figure out why things aren't happening.
Two examples:
  1. Peace at home
    Ismet Inonu needs to be either the country leader or be a political advisor.
    You can only get him when taking "Continiue the Policy of Estatism" Focus. Yet if you go with "Fully integrate the Is Bank" you're not blocked to take "Peace at home" eventough you'l never be able to compelte its criteria.
  2. Pivot to the Past
    The Ottoman loyalists have been invited back to active service
    1. Nowhere does this focus indicate that you need to pick the "Demokrat Parti" during the election to force a civil war by the Kemalsits.
I hope these are the only litle things in the Turkish focus tree, but i fear they're not alone. I'm not going to judge anything else of the DLC yet because i didn't try everything out yet.
I've not done anything in terms of the gameplay yet, I was only basing my review on the focus tree. The focus tree is even worse imo than the France tree, just based off the political side of things. I've played over 1100 hours in this game so I know how this game works. The early game 36-39 is where you need to conquer countries and get more land, factories and MP. Waiting until 40/41? Well you might as well just roll over.
 
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I've not done anything in terms of the gameplay yet, I was only basing my review on the focus tree. The focus tree is even worse imo than the France tree, just based off the political side of things. I've played over 1100 hours in this game so I know how this game works. The early game 36-39 is where you need to conquer countries and get more land, factories and MP. Waiting until 40/41? Well you might as well just roll over.
I've always disliked the early war strat and thus never done that, so i'm less botherd by that. (and yes, thats why i ahven't got the "Miklos Horthy and the Habsburg Prince" achievemtn yet
 
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I've always disliked the early war strat and thus never done that, so i'm less botherd by that. (and yes, thats why i ahven't got the "Miklos Horthy and the Habsburg Prince" achievemtn yet
Well because the game doesn't support the 'wait until everyone has built up and becomes super powers and then attack' strategy. It's not possible within the game.

That being said, how do you invite the ottomans? Ive not got the event. How do I do it?
 
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Well because the game doesn't support the 'wait until everyone has built up and becomes super powers and then attack' strategy. It's not possible within the game.

That being said, how do you invite the ottomans? Ive not got the event. How do I do it?
I haven't gotten so far because i screwed up due to aformetioned problems. But looking at the Dev Diary for Turkey you have to ditch the Cumhuriyet Halk Partisi and go with the Democrats so teh Kemalsits launch a civil war agaisnt you. I think some time after that civil war you'l get the option to invite the Ottoman loyalists back into service.
 

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I haven't gotten so far because i screwed up due to aformetioned problems. But looking at the Dev Diary for Turkey you have to ditch the Cumhuriyet Halk Partisi and go with the Democrats so teh Kemalsits launch a civil war agaisnt you. I think some time after that civil war you'l get the option to invite the Ottoman loyalists back into service.
I mean I had a civil war, but I thought that was just the resistance going up thing.

I really am confused. Im already going through the tree, and past the election day focus and event...

so now im concerned. I haven't had a civil war but that one nor was I given the option to select a demokratik party besides being forced into it by the game itself since it forces you to go democracy first. Yea, this turkey tree is a little too much lol
 

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I mean I had a civil war, but I thought that was just the resistance going up thing.

I really am confused. Im already going through the tree, and past the election day focus and event...

so now im concerned. I haven't had a civil war but that one nor was I given the option to select a demokratik party besides being forced into it by the game itself since it forces you to go democracy first. Yea, this turkey tree is a little too much lol
You didn't get the option? Huh, i got an event saying that the election was very close, but the victor was... -insert the ability to chose between 2 parties-
Did you get an election fraud event ebfore that? If so, did you go ahrd on them? I did, might have something to do with it, i have NO clue at all. Someone who actually has done that path should tell us.
 

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You didn't get the option? Huh, i got an event saying that the election was very close, but the victor was... -insert the ability to chose between 2 parties-
Did you get an election fraud event ebfore that? If so, did you go ahrd on them? I did, might have something to do with it, i have NO clue at all. Someone who actually has done that path should tell us.
Or maybe im missing something. Did you ever do the peace at home focus? I went complete left side and ignoring the others as I wanted to rush the Ottoman. Was the peace at home focus a requirement?
 

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I went the facist route, You dont get anything the kurds are a milt anyoance at best. You build up slowly the new resistance stuff is just meh, like how can I get them to go away? I mean I will not dump 100pp in every province they are in and then it takes another 200 to appease them. It shows again that pdc does not play their own game in a way. I then took out iraq and iran because I got bored. Then arabia got dragged into WW2 because of England. Then the ai just auto spams invasions whilst we had 90 Percent of africa but cyprus is enough to launch invasion with 12 division alright.
I then left. All the good stuff is so late that you would have 0 time to develop your army or to rush anything. I mean what is the point of you being in the axis. We all know that ai is terrible at giving you the land you whant need and nowhere can you get any real cores. Also why as a fascist can I not recreate the ottoman empire? I mean makes more sense than turan stuff and even that is looked behind democracy like whut?
 
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Or maybe im missing something. Did you ever do the peace at home focus? I went complete left side and ignoring the others as I wanted to rush the Ottoman. Was the peace at home focus a requirement?
  1. Peace at home
    Ismet Inonu needs to be either the country leader or be a political advisor.
    You can only get him when taking "Continiue the Policy of Estatism" Focus. Yet if you go with "Fully integrate the Is Bank" you're not blocked to take "Peace at home" eventough you'l never be able to compelte its criteria.
If i didn't make it obvious with that, no i didn't, because i couldn't.
 

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I went the facist route, You dont get anything the kurds are a milt anyoance at best. You build up slowly the new resistance stuff is just meh, like how can I get them to go away? I mean I will not dump 100pp in every province they are in and then it takes another 200 to appease them. It shows again that pdc does not play their own game in a way. I then took out iraq and iran because I got bored. Then arabia got dragged into WW2 because of England. Then the ai just auto spams invasions whilst we had 90 Percent of africa but cyprus is enough to launch invasion with 12 division alright.
I then left. All the good stuff is so late that you would have 0 time to develop your army or to rush anything. I mean what is the point of you being in the axis. We all know that ai is terrible at giving you the land you whant need and nowhere can you get any real cores. Also why as a fascist can I not recreate the ottoman empire? I mean makes more sense than turan stuff and even that is looked behind democracy like whut?
Yea. So, overall, its underwhelming. If they had cut most of their 70 day focuses to 35, i think this would be alot better but tis like the france tree. You just can't do it all in a reasonable amount of time. Greeces tree might actually be a little better... maybe. Ill have to give them a try sometime. So far, I am -very- disappointed in this. It was hyped up and I was excited. Super excited... but I should have known better after La resistance.

Edit: Not to mention, its ALOT of PP just to core the rest of your land thanks to the RNG. I hate this... I really hate this. Its unfun.
 
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KDEstroy

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I must be in the minority, because I don't think minor countries should be able to rush all of their neighbours and become a superpower by 1939. Turkey should not be able to compete with Germany or the UK, period. Not only is it historically inaccurate, it is also terrible for game balance. DLC's shouldn't make minor countries super OP, you shouldn't buy DLC's with the expectation that they will magically give minors crazy good national spirits or something. DLC's should provide flavor, not a pay-to-win option.

If you're in single-player and you're struggling to defeat the Axis , then you need to learn to get good, or cheese the AI.
 
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Vin55

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The best part is how little industry you get and so many pp dumps like the investments and repaying your debt etc... the only good thing is the extra stell gives your economy a little boost but you are better of with just going after some guys yourself. Your calims are way too late. La Resistance as fascist or royalist(napoleon) you are also set, you can attack Germany in 38/9 without problem. Here in 1940 I had little more than one army group. Which is just not enough to stop the annoying naval invasion spam which is always in the most stupid places. Yeah we lost suez lets go for Iszmir and kill an army there how did we lose doesnt matte next army to friggin Istanbul and so on. I mean just set them on historic beachheads or make it so that if they lose suez they stop doing it in the eastern medi.
 
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Vin55

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I must be in the minority, because I don't think minor countries should be able to rush all of their neighbours and become a superpower by 1939. Turkey should not be able to compete with Germany or the UK, period. Not only is it historically inaccurate, it is also terrible for game balance. DLC's shouldn't make minor countries super OP, you shouldn't buy DLC's with the expectation that they will magically give minors crazy good national spirits or something. DLC's should provide flavor, not a pay-to-win option.

If you're in single-player and you're struggling to defeat the Axis , then you need to learn to get good, or cheese the AI.
You will not rival them even if you take all that land. You just want the land beeing in your control because in a peace deal 1 million dead italians matters more than you taking london and Paris and ending the war...
 
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TalyonUngol

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I must be in the minority, because I don't think minor countries should be able to rush all of their neighbours and become a superpower by 1939. Turkey should not be able to compete with Germany or the UK, period. Not only is it historically inaccurate, it is also terrible for game balance. DLC's shouldn't make minor countries super OP, you shouldn't buy DLC's with the expectation that they will magically give minors crazy good national spirits or something. DLC's should provide flavor, not a pay-to-win option.

If you're in single-player and you're struggling to defeat the Axis , then you need to learn to get good, or cheese the AI.
Why is it terrible for game balance? Are you saying as Germany you're going to lose to the Austro-Hungarian Empire? Sounds like a L2P issue right there, but im assuming you are meaning something else so what do you mean by terrible for game balance?

And since you're so good at this game, I have to ask. How do you defeat Italy and Germany with only 100K manpower, 50 civi8lians and 20 militarys in 1942? I am always willing to learn if you are going to teach. I mean, since you can defeat Germany as Bhutan according to you.
 
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Spelaren

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Yeah, i experienced the same thing with Turkey and Bulgaria, by the point you have completed the political stuff and some industrial stuff by then the second world war is raging, and then the US joins making it go on forever.
 
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Leinad965

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French focus tree is great, it is not just click, click, win, but you must think about strategy. If this works for Turkey too, it should be good, not bad
 
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TalyonUngol

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French focus tree is great, it is not just click, click, win, but you must think about strategy. If this works for Turkey too, it should be good, not bad
Frances tree at least on the industrial side, should be 35 days for all of them over there. Thats just me though.

That being said, Ive done very well as France with Napoleon but there is a -huge- difference between France and Turkey.

Turkey's wargoals are locked behind 4.7 years of focuses((On the ottoman side at least)) meaning the EARLIEST and this is ignoring trying to fix your military btw, is late 1940. France can take UK, Netherlands, Belgium and Germany by 1939....

So France will have 150 civs and 200 militarys by 1940 while Turkey looks like about 40 Civs and 6 militarys.

While I understand that France is a major and turkey is a minor, there are plenty of other minor nations that get war goals earlier on that do not have to deal with this like Turkey does. It's just stupid.
 
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