This CSA will get done...one war or another.

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This CSA will get done...one way or another.

I started making this a few months ago, but then 25 hours of college classes plus work came along. Now I have picked it up again. So far I have all the countries laid out. The Confederacy consists of all the Confederate States, Kentucky, half of Missouri, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and most of Arizona. They alss have Puerto Rico. Deseret has Neveda, Utah, a small piece of Colorado and a smaller piece of Idaho. California consists of California, Oregon, and Washington. The rest is the United States. In addition the Confederate States also have annexed Cuba. I have not yet decided the status of the Phillipines. Alaska is Russian.

The order of battle is very European. There is pretty much an arms race between the United States (Allied to California) and the Confederate States (Allied to Deseret). Each nation has roughly 65 divisions. The South has some tanks and the North has some motorized and well equiped Mountain troops. The North has a ridiculously powerful air force. The South has a ridiculously powerful navy.

As for mass changes of development, the industry is almost complely even as well as the manpower. Several southern coastal cities such as Charleston and Jacksonville became much more important while importance was diminished for St. Louis and Chicago. The Victory points are also more concentrated and fragmented, where you do not have to control everything.

Government for the United States is market liberal. For the Confederates it will be autocratic I guess. Partially because they would be very autocratic, and partially due to the fact that designing election events is out of my league. California is Leninist. Deseret is fascist, because it is a theocratic monarchy.

 

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Csa

Sounds Interesting. I just started playing a Harry Turtledove Mod that sounds similar. I also made some CSA Unit Counters. They are posted at

UNit Counters

Keep us posted on your mod

 

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As for the reasoning of my decisions.
As for how the South won the war, it was thanks in large part to western Europe. The United States lost Gettysburg. This defeat opened up Pennsylvania to the South and demoralized the North. The South continued to push for help. In this world, France got rebuffed hard on their Mexican designs and the United States threatened them to stop involving themselves in American affairs. The touchy 18th century French were enraged at this and discussed the possibilty of intervention. Britain was hurt for cotton, despite increased production of the product elsewhere. Confedrate President Jefferson Davis historcally promised abolition of slavery in exchange for intervention, and in this world Britain publicized this to get the support of the anti-slavery public. In 1863, France and Britain intervened. Britain was vehemtly opposed to either sending troops, but did send the navy and for the most part evicerated the Union Blockade. They also terminated campains against the Mississippi delta.

French and British generals seasoned with lessons learned hard in the Crimea advised many Confederate commanders. The crackpot generals in Tennessee pretty much submited to French and British leaderhsip. This help stopped the disasters in Tennessee and reversed the collapse of the center. (How do you looe Chatanooga?).Washington fell in early 1864 and the riots in New York spread throughout the North.

With support gutted and the Union defeated or stalemated at every front, the Union signed the treaty of Halifax.The treaty freed the Confederacy and gave Kentucky to the South. All other border states stayed in the union. They also agreed to leave the Mormons alone in Utah, and were forced with what they long considered the harshest term. This was the creation of an independent Pacific state.

The war resumed in 1885, when California applied for statehood. The Californian army had no luck at all in Arizona and the Union was completely defeated. The South learned that a powerful navy was essential in the first war and quickly controled the sea. The North had a much larger army on the opposite end. The conduct of the war was simlar to World War I with the Union attacking across the Ohio and the Potomic and being decimated, while the South landed by sea at Baltimore and New Jersey catching the Union completly by suprise. As they fell back to try to contain this nightmare, the South concentrated their attack at driving a wedge between the armies of the Ohio and the Potomic. They succeeded taking Pittsburgh due to the fact that the Union could not maneuver, reinforce, defend, and retreat at the same time with mauled units. Detroit and Washington fell and the Confederates began shelling the entire Northeast. Another defeat at Trenton freed up men to sack New York and Philadelphia. With complete disaster at hand the Union had no choice but to end the war. The Treaty of Salt Lake ended the war. The Union promised to never again try to annex California. They also surrended half of Missouri. The war almost continued when the South demanded West Virgina, but the Southern population was sympathtic to not enforcing as harsh a treaty on the North.

That would just lead to another war. The North did not in 1885 fight much in the cities on purpose as to this same reason. While there was large casualty number, the infratructure and industrial base were left largely intact in this war. That is how the United States still managed to grow economically.
War between the South and Spain occured in 1895, and the Spanish were demolished. The South gained Cuba, Puerto Rico, and maybe the Phillipines. (Lack of a Pacific Port is the concern here...as well as the United States objections and general American distaste for imperialsim. Cuba is one thing, but the Phillipines are far away in Asia.)

Both the North and South intervened for the allied cause in World War I and their intervention was decisive. While many hoped this would warm these two bitter enemies, the opposite happened. This victory led to arrogance in both countries and this fueled the arms race in place in the 1930s.

California's slide into Communism was a slow one. Their defeat in the 1885 war left them intact, but the economy suffered mightily. Few countires wanted to trade with California due to distance to markets. Their economy built on gold dried up quickly. The country broke down completly in 1904 and civil war ensued until 1908. By 1908 however, Japan had become a major trade partner. California's unilateral trade with Japan led to huge fluctuations in the economy. Japan's intervention in World War I massacred California's economy and a socialst power took over in 1916. The change was complete in 1922.

 

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As for what I forgot.
Defensive lines lie along both sides of the border between the North and South, None are invincible. Most are betwen 1 and 3. The exceptions are Baltimore and Washington at level 5 and the Mighty Mojave Line in California at 8. This can however be flanked through Deseret.
The British built the Panama Canal, due to American distractions and the Confederates lack of interest. The United States lost almost all of its Latin American influence as well, and was not a feasible candidate. The Confederacy and the Union do agree on one thing in this area though. The Monroe Doctrine is in effect.
I have also researched and assigned Tech Teams. Newport News stays Union contrary to most attempts at this. It is part of Dover in the game and Dover is part of the United States.

 

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Any ideas or suggestions are welcome. Even for events. I cannot build events from scratch, that is way beyond me. So I would like some help there. Help in more baisc things would be helpful as well. The IC is modified in the province file, but not the manpower yet. That could take a while. Also, I want to make Richmond urban with the same pic as Washington. The leaders/minsiters is also a grand undertaking. The leadership and minsietrs will be completely made up. Most of the people in the American file likely would not have existed in this alternate history. But others would. The Hallstein leader generater can provide a useful template, but the ranks and skills need some additional modding work on the generated file. I have not tested the minsiter one, but it will likely create a very usable minister file. Anyone have the link? Thanks Hallstein by the way. How you made that is way way out of my atmosphere. But any help would be greatly appreciated. Being able to play the CSA is really intriging to me. Germany versus USSR and China versus Japan (sometimes) are the only really massive 1 on 1 slugfests in the game. The CSA can change that. With CSA you are in the unique position of being a feasible ally to either side or being a side to yourself. Liberate or conquer. The choice will be yours.

 

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Great looking counters. I will include them if you do not mind with due thanks. Counters are a total mystery to me though. I am a sprite guy. The only problem is I use a different flag. I only have the Paradox flag and shield for the South. I would like the traditional one better though. If anyone knows where I can find it, let me know. I found the Deseret flag somewhere, but I cannot remember where. It has been a while. For California I use the single star flag with horzontal bars. I like its look better than the bear.

 

[HMS Enterprize]

The counters suggested are for an alternate timeline CSA and not really applicable to a regular CSA.

And no offence intended, but a space between your paragraphs make large blocks of text much easier to read.

 

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Csa

I am going to try my hand at flags at some point. When I do I am sure to whip up some CSA flags and will post them.

Great background! Keep it up

 

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I have an event idea. This should be a piece of cake for supermodders. On 1 July of 1936 or January 1 1937, a foreign policy event for the CSA will ask you to choose a current foreign policy. Choice 1 will be 100% isolationist and put dissent at 0. Choice 2 will maintain the current level at 5 and change dissent to 5%. Choice 3 will be 100% interventionalist and change dissent to 10%. I may try it myself later. Similar to some other events like the Tripartite Pact.

 

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Great looking counters. I will include them if you do not mind with due thanks. Counters are a total mystery to me though. I am a sprite guy. The only problem is I use a different flag. I only have the Paradox flag and shield for the South. I would like the traditional one better though. If anyone knows where I can find it, let me know. I found the Deseret flag somewhere, but I cannot remember where. It has been a while. For California I use the single star flag with horzontal bars. I like its look better than the bear.

Enterprize has a CSA Flag and Shield in his Mod, but it uses Turtledove's reversed color scheme, Blue Field with Red Cross of St Andrews and white stars. When I start fooling with flags I will start with his and see if I can reverse it to the traditional CSA battleflag.

In any case, the Flag in vanilla HOI2 is actually accurate. The red banner with blue cross was a battle flag only. The national flag was actually white with the battle flag cantoned in the upper left. It was called the "Stainless Banner"
The red stripe at the right end was added when the flag was mistaken for a white surrender flag. (The Red canton was often hidden when the flag hung limply)

 

[HMS Enterprize]

The stainless banner was the 2nd national flag, the first was the 'stars and bars', kinda like the betsy ross with 3 large stripes instead of 13. This was changed as units were mistaking each other for friendly units.

Basically, if the CSA had had an early victory in 1861 or 2 (in an alternate history sense, not a WW2, defeated USA forced to release CS sense) the 2nd and 3rd national flags probably would not have even existed.

This flag is in the shield directory for Victoria and Im sure is easily available on flag making sites.

 

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Which reminds me... Enterprize, how developed is the latest Settling Accounts mod/and how much of that could be co-opted to help out dustinherron with what he needs to do? I imagine leaders/unit names would be a significant boon to him.

Which leads me to another gripe/challenge I've had for modders here making CSA-type games. In the Omega/Enterprize mods, we see generic names for Confederate units, "Advanced Infantry Division" and so forth. Wouldn't it be interesting to see if we could invent a CSA engineering and design lineage for units designations that might make sense? I'm sure, after digging around, we could probably find actual photographic evidence of failed/overturn US tank, airplane, and naval prototypes that look good enough to be in the game.

 

[HMS Enterprize]

Which reminds me... Enterprize, how developed is the latest Settling Accounts mod/and how much of that could be co-opted to help out dustinherron with what he needs to do? I imagine leaders/unit names would be a significant boon to him.

Which leads me to another gripe/challenge I've had for modders here making CSA-type games. In the Omega/Enterprize mods, we see generic names for Confederate units, "Advanced Infantry Division" and so forth. Wouldn't it be interesting to see if we could invent a CSA engineering and design lineage for units designations that might make sense? I'm sure, after digging around, we could probably find actual photographic evidence of failed/overturn US tank, airplane, and naval prototypes that look good enough to be in the game.

An update for my mod should be out a little after xmas.

As for my mod, obviously, there were no real CS tanks or planes or what-not, but 95% of the models available have suitably 'CS' names, in the instances where turtledove has not named any. So, in addition to razorback tac bombers, mule dive bombers, hound-dog interceptors from turtledove you have Piranha-Bonefish-Great White, Subs (see the link?) lightfoot-apache-commanche, light tanks etc etc Plus- I even added some fake Manufacturing companies who build the weapons!

I even went to the trouble of naming the CS super heavy tank, its called the Tombstone (which I thought was really cool)

And a lot of my unit names are non-generic, In fact the CSA has quite a lot in Infantry and tanks, plus others in mountaineers, paras, interceptors, fighters and bombers!!!

I also went to the trouble of putting a challenge to players of my mod to see if they could find them all, to win a prize (or glory at least ) yet no-one took up the challenge! Sigh....all that effort.

 

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Which reminds me... Enterprize, how developed is the latest Settling Accounts mod/and how much of that could be co-opted to help out dustinherron with what he needs to do? I imagine leaders/unit names would be a significant boon to him.

Which leads me to another gripe/challenge I've had for modders here making CSA-type games. In the Omega/Enterprize mods, we see generic names for Confederate units, "Advanced Infantry Division" and so forth. Wouldn't it be interesting to see if we could invent a CSA engineering and design lineage for units designations that might make sense? I'm sure, after digging around, we could probably find actual photographic evidence of failed/overturn US tank, airplane, and naval prototypes that look good enough to be in the game.

I agree totally. I am just getting my feet wet with modding, so far only unit counters, but I plan on learning more. I will see what kind of pictures, names etc I can find

 

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I have suffered setbacks in my battle orders. It seems that the AI dissaproves of my deployment schemes so my unit names make no sense and I have had it with switching them in that text file. The Chesepeake Guard ends up in New Mexico...This will take a little time to repair in any case. And I toyed around today with the idea of making up unit names for models. I like the tombstone. Care if I use it?

 

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I have suffered setbacks in my battle orders. It seems that the AI dissaproves of my deployment schemes so my unit names make no sense and I have had it with switching them in that text file. The Chesepeake Guard ends up in New Mexico...This will take a little time to repair in any case. And I toyed around today with the idea of making up unit names for models. I like the tombstone. Care if I use it?

Sorry to here about the set backs. I know the feeling. I like the name Chesapeake Guards though. Here is a CSA flag I made

I made it by hand and it was a pain. I'm still looking for a utility to do it automatically

 

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Thanks for the contribution.

Also can someone remind me how to take a screenshot and post it? I will put my map up on here.

 

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Screenshot

Thanks for the contribution.

Also can someone remind me how to take a screenshot and post it? I will put my map up on here.

I don't know the HOI hot key, but in Windows hitting the print screen key copies whats on the screen to the windows clipboard. Don't know if it will work from inside HOI2 though . . .

 

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Now how do I post it?

 

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POsting

Now how do I post it?

Do you have a website that you can upload files to? If so, u/l the file there, copy its exact URL then in the message form click the yellow image button (w/ mountains and star) and then paste the link. If you do not have access to a website you can e-mail it to me as an attachment and I can post it.

trh@wsd.waupaca.k12.wi.us

TTYL