This is the topic about the weakest of the weak civics. So bad nobody takes them or even remember they exist, not even devs.
We dont speak about Meritocracy, and how good it is, and that taking it with every empire is boring.
And we dont talk about okeyish civics which are not great, but at least do something.
Cutthroat Politics
With some intteration this civic lost value, since edicts are now take capacity overloard at game start and keep it forever.
There are not many edicts to repeatably take, and they do not take big part of our cost.
Solutions:
+ Rise discount to -50% and remove cost of removing edict (1
+ Add +1 edict cap (2
There are two routes.1st bigger disount and removing removal cost. This is potencially interesting as we might want to use edicts as quick fix. This route is more interesting.
2nd route is just Imperial Cult lite
Efficienct Burocracy
This one only works if we already have some Admin Cap, and it stack worse than -20% admin cap usage. It lowers in inpact over game.
Solution
+ Add +20 Admin Cap as gift so there will be solid and % effect
Enviromentalist
There is a niche of Utopian Abudance, but is very narrow niche.
There is not much demand for CG, and trade policy or master artifiers solve that problem.
Solution:
+ Make it work with job costs like Technocracy or just spamming labs.
+ Increase demand for CG by adding more CG sinks, maybe civics which buff pops for the price.
Aristocratic Elite
Everything is nothing special. You can just take Police State get your Stability get some free Unity from enforcers and dont worry.
Aristocrats are not special and you undermine your ammenity. And Noble estate provides very little for building slot.
There is a gimmick if you use servants slaves and Pleasure Seakers, however Pleasure Seakers is other civic and it already produce a lot of stability.
Solution
+ Change Noble estate to 3 housing 1 noble 1 entertainer and 1 soldier, so 1 building but collection of jobs and some of them will be useful.
+ Add twist that each noble creates servant job no matter laws and servants are +5 ammenity better
+ Change Nobles into 5stab, 5 ammenity, 2unity so we are not negative in ammenity with thic civic. Like build in servant.
Corvette Systems
Does not give much, since pops move on their own. Even if you plan to use it, the energy cost will start to be a problem.
Solution:
+ Add energy discount -50% on moving pops
Still niche, but at least they might be some build to use it.
Feudal Society
Does not give much, There could be some niche use, that we make vassal with purpose to grab the land for us. But sacrifizing one of early planets for AI controled expansions... there are a better ways to do it.
Solution
+ Add vassal efficiency. Each Vassal increases our naval cap by 10% of theirs and each tribute multiplies the tribute by +10%.
Nationalist Zeal
There are multiple technologies with -10% WE so -15% isnt much. Why take civic which could be mimic with 1 or 2 techs?
Solution
+ Add +10% happiness bonus when we are at war
Philosopher King
Bonus to only ruler is very little, and we are not guaranteed that we will even use that extra levels
Solutions
+ Add +20 years of lifespan for our ruler, so there will be nich for empires with mortal rulers to get similar effect. We just really care about ruler.
Warrior Culture
Army damage is a meme but it is ok.
But Duelist is kinda bad. Alloys are more expansive than CG and like 3 times, since we cant cheat with trade policy or Master Crafters
You also need just 40 surplus ammenity and that is it. So we cant even spam it.
Solution
+ Change naval cap change to +6, we cant spam duelist but the impact of single one could be greater.
Catalytic Procesing
It is sooo balanced why even bother. There could be niche use with Food purging or living stock or other civics.
Improved miners produce 4+2m and alloys use 6. Improved farmer is 6f+2f. So food production is less efficient than late game mining!
And i am not even talking take miners guild and chill. You can spam mining habitats.
Solution
+ Change chemical procesing to cost 8 so it wil be equal to improved farmer output.
+ Add +20000 food storage so we can storage food during purge
Iddylic Bloom
The idea is great but result is very non efficient. Cost is too high, requirments too high, and long lasting effect minimal.
The effect of each phase is total madnex and chaos. Each tier should be +5% better.
No legacy Iddylic Monument with lasting effect.
Solution
+ Remove perfect mach requirment, but cant be apocalyptic. You pay high enought cost.
+ Clean the phase building. Phase 1 +5% habitability, Phase 2 +10% habitability +5% pop growth Phase 3 +20% habitability +10% pop growth
+ Final Phase legacy Monument, +10% pop growth, +10% Happiness +25% migration pull, cost 5e but could be switch off/removed if player dont like it.
We pay a lot and for what? There needs to be Legacy Monument which provide some unique bonuses. Building slot is cost already.
Barbaric Despoilers
Great idea, very thematic. Just why so weak?
Nihilistic Acquisition is ok, just we pay a lot with the civic to get the same.
Solutions:
+ Improve wargoal to better tribute for 10years, like some money upfront and 10% energy soak for 10 years
+ Add +20% naval cap as we are limited diplomacy no remove civic
+ Add +10% slave output
No diploacy is serious drawback, so we overall it could be more powerfull
Reanimators
Armies doesnt matter
Animated Leviathans are not good, if we can killthem they probably dont add much to our fleet.
Solution
+ Make animated leviathans better
On the bright side, despite many civics being bad, there are also many civics which are ok, so we are not forced to take meritocracy every time.
Iddylic Bloom, Barbaric Depoilers, Aristocracy Elite and Catalyst Procesing are worst offenders, as they try to bring something interesting but they are very bad, so there is not only dead civic but also lost of potencially good idea.
I put suggestion in suggestion forum as suggested. I hope that helps
forum.paradoxplaza.com
We dont speak about Meritocracy, and how good it is, and that taking it with every empire is boring.
And we dont talk about okeyish civics which are not great, but at least do something.
Cutthroat Politics
With some intteration this civic lost value, since edicts are now take capacity overloard at game start and keep it forever.
There are not many edicts to repeatably take, and they do not take big part of our cost.
Solutions:
+ Rise discount to -50% and remove cost of removing edict (1
+ Add +1 edict cap (2
There are two routes.1st bigger disount and removing removal cost. This is potencially interesting as we might want to use edicts as quick fix. This route is more interesting.
2nd route is just Imperial Cult lite
Efficienct Burocracy
This one only works if we already have some Admin Cap, and it stack worse than -20% admin cap usage. It lowers in inpact over game.
Solution
+ Add +20 Admin Cap as gift so there will be solid and % effect
Enviromentalist
There is a niche of Utopian Abudance, but is very narrow niche.
There is not much demand for CG, and trade policy or master artifiers solve that problem.
Solution:
+ Make it work with job costs like Technocracy or just spamming labs.
+ Increase demand for CG by adding more CG sinks, maybe civics which buff pops for the price.
Aristocratic Elite
Everything is nothing special. You can just take Police State get your Stability get some free Unity from enforcers and dont worry.
Aristocrats are not special and you undermine your ammenity. And Noble estate provides very little for building slot.
There is a gimmick if you use servants slaves and Pleasure Seakers, however Pleasure Seakers is other civic and it already produce a lot of stability.
Solution
+ Change Noble estate to 3 housing 1 noble 1 entertainer and 1 soldier, so 1 building but collection of jobs and some of them will be useful.
+ Add twist that each noble creates servant job no matter laws and servants are +5 ammenity better
+ Change Nobles into 5stab, 5 ammenity, 2unity so we are not negative in ammenity with thic civic. Like build in servant.
Corvette Systems
Does not give much, since pops move on their own. Even if you plan to use it, the energy cost will start to be a problem.
Solution:
+ Add energy discount -50% on moving pops
Still niche, but at least they might be some build to use it.
Feudal Society
Does not give much, There could be some niche use, that we make vassal with purpose to grab the land for us. But sacrifizing one of early planets for AI controled expansions... there are a better ways to do it.
Solution
+ Add vassal efficiency. Each Vassal increases our naval cap by 10% of theirs and each tribute multiplies the tribute by +10%.
Nationalist Zeal
There are multiple technologies with -10% WE so -15% isnt much. Why take civic which could be mimic with 1 or 2 techs?
Solution
+ Add +10% happiness bonus when we are at war
Philosopher King
Bonus to only ruler is very little, and we are not guaranteed that we will even use that extra levels
Solutions
+ Add +20 years of lifespan for our ruler, so there will be nich for empires with mortal rulers to get similar effect. We just really care about ruler.
Warrior Culture
Army damage is a meme but it is ok.
But Duelist is kinda bad. Alloys are more expansive than CG and like 3 times, since we cant cheat with trade policy or Master Crafters
You also need just 40 surplus ammenity and that is it. So we cant even spam it.
Solution
+ Change naval cap change to +6, we cant spam duelist but the impact of single one could be greater.
Catalytic Procesing
It is sooo balanced why even bother. There could be niche use with Food purging or living stock or other civics.
Improved miners produce 4+2m and alloys use 6. Improved farmer is 6f+2f. So food production is less efficient than late game mining!
And i am not even talking take miners guild and chill. You can spam mining habitats.
Solution
+ Change chemical procesing to cost 8 so it wil be equal to improved farmer output.
+ Add +20000 food storage so we can storage food during purge
Iddylic Bloom
The idea is great but result is very non efficient. Cost is too high, requirments too high, and long lasting effect minimal.
The effect of each phase is total madnex and chaos. Each tier should be +5% better.
No legacy Iddylic Monument with lasting effect.
Solution
+ Remove perfect mach requirment, but cant be apocalyptic. You pay high enought cost.
+ Clean the phase building. Phase 1 +5% habitability, Phase 2 +10% habitability +5% pop growth Phase 3 +20% habitability +10% pop growth
+ Final Phase legacy Monument, +10% pop growth, +10% Happiness +25% migration pull, cost 5e but could be switch off/removed if player dont like it.
We pay a lot and for what? There needs to be Legacy Monument which provide some unique bonuses. Building slot is cost already.
Barbaric Despoilers
Great idea, very thematic. Just why so weak?
Nihilistic Acquisition is ok, just we pay a lot with the civic to get the same.
Solutions:
+ Improve wargoal to better tribute for 10years, like some money upfront and 10% energy soak for 10 years
+ Add +20% naval cap as we are limited diplomacy no remove civic
+ Add +10% slave output
No diploacy is serious drawback, so we overall it could be more powerfull
Reanimators
Armies doesnt matter
Animated Leviathans are not good, if we can killthem they probably dont add much to our fleet.
Solution
+ Make animated leviathans better
On the bright side, despite many civics being bad, there are also many civics which are ok, so we are not forced to take meritocracy every time.
Iddylic Bloom, Barbaric Depoilers, Aristocracy Elite and Catalyst Procesing are worst offenders, as they try to bring something interesting but they are very bad, so there is not only dead civic but also lost of potencially good idea.
I put suggestion in suggestion forum as suggested. I hope that helps
Buffing old, weak Civics - buffs ideas
This is the topic about the weakest of the weak civics. So bad nobody takes them or even remember they exist, not even devs. We dont speak about Meritocracy, and how good it is, and that taking it with every empire is boring. And we dont talk...
Last edited:
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