Dago said:me back
rdy for start
great, why none said me we are starting earlier today ...
Last edited:
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great, why none said me we are starting earlier today ...
Great session! The naval wars were fun, I'm liking this 5/5 rule a lot. Now for the liberation of Italy! We shall have a catholic rome again soon I think .
. Now for the liberation of Italy! We shall have a catholic rome again soon I think .
btw i had only 2 leaders,a 2 2 3 ( 234 with dp ) and another 2 3 3 with dp
it suxx a bit
btw,i cant play next session,as i said
it suxx a bit
btw,i cant play next session,as i said
King John said:Great session! The naval wars were fun, I'm liking this 5/5 rule a lot
thank god i was suspecting kj and pibe plans and send francis drake back to europe if i didn't see those 10ships kj i wouldn't have send francis drake back home
and i actually like 5/5rule alot to 90mp england
nice war short but fun
i laugh about some1 said that OE had just won this game
last 2 wars vs austria demonstred how much far is the truth
last 2 wars vs austria demonstred how much far is the truth
Dago said:
LOL, Russia's got the 2nd cheapest navy in the world, maybe I should build a fleet :rofl: Shame that my tech is lagging
may some1 may calculs soon?i ll leave in weds morning,and i d like do prestige and power before
i got 4 provs by spain
money by russia
i lost 2 provs at austria
i got 4 provs by spain
money by russia
i lost 2 provs at austria
If nobody does it by then, I'll do the math for the fleet/MP/income thing, and I'll give you a hand for your wars calculation Dago, probably in a day.
Tem_Probe said:
thx
i m going to lose some land at austria again,but i think it ll be counted in session after next
i m trying see if i have understood
power
2 points for be dowed twice by austria
1 point for be dowed by russia
8 points for 4 provs taken by spain
1 point for the victory vs russia without have taken land
1 for AAR (soon)
1 by last session
bonus by MP
bonus by fleet
prestige
4 for 2 COTs
43 for european provinces
5,5 for not european (0,25*22)
6 for the 2 wars won vs spain and russia
bonus by income
2 for AAr (soon)
10 for existing
2,25 by last session
-2 for war lost vs austria
-6 for 2 provs lost at austria
power
2 points for be dowed twice by austria
1 point for be dowed by russia
8 points for 4 provs taken by spain
1 point for the victory vs russia without have taken land
1 for AAR (soon)
1 by last session
bonus by MP
bonus by fleet
prestige
4 for 2 COTs
43 for european provinces
5,5 for not european (0,25*22)
6 for the 2 wars won vs spain and russia
bonus by income
2 for AAr (soon)
10 for existing
2,25 by last session
-2 for war lost vs austria
-6 for 2 provs lost at austria
btw,i wont play next session,as u know,and i wonder if is possible get some of my MT points (not edited at me) in sessions after the next,when i ll come back
I know I am complaining too much, but my Spain is some mistake. What have I done wrong?! I should have 400 income now, be superior in all techs and have biggest navy in the world. Instead I have less money than England, tech like Ottomans and navy died after war for Italy.
Am I so bad player and scrwed Spain on the beginig, or there is something in this scenario which equal Spain to other nations?
I should have 400 income now, be superior in all techs and have biggest navy in the world. Instead I have less money than England, tech like Ottomans and navy died after war for Italy.Am I so bad player and scrwed Spain on the beginig, or there is something in this scenario which equal Spain to other nations?
POWER:
Issuing a declaration of war against another human (1 point) = 0
Receiving a declaration of war from another human (1 point) = 1
Taking a province in war from a human (2 points per province) = 0
Force-Vassalization of a human (5 points) = 0
10 points at the end of every session will be distributed on the basis of maximum manpower. = 1 ?
Fleets = 1 ?
Writing an AAR (+1 point) = now 0, soon 1
Points left from previous session = 1
TOTAL = 5
PRESTIGE:
Having human vassals (+.5 prestige per European province owned by each vassal per session). = 0
Claiming DoTF (+10 prestige, although note that this comes with responsibilities...) = 0
Owning CoTs (+2 prestige per CoT per session) = 8
Owning European provinces (+1 prestige per European province per session) = 30
Owning colonial provinces (+.25 prestige per non European province) = 45 x 0.25 = 11,25
Winning a war (+3 prestige) = 0
50 prestige points will be distributed on the basis of percentage of income. = 9 ?
Being the leader in a technology (+1 prestige for each leader in each category)= 0
Existing! (+10 prestige) = 10
Increasing your income (+1 prestige per 10% increase) = (3255.4 - 2350.9) / 2350.9 = 38.5% = 4
Guaranteeing the independence of another human nation (committing yourself to help them in a defensive war) (+5 prestige) = 0
Writing an AAR (+1 point) = now 0, soon 2
Points from previous session = 2,75
Losing a war (-2 prestige for war lost, -3 prestige per European province surrendered, and -1 prestige per non European province lost) = -2 -3 -3 -3 -3 = -14
TOTAL = 62
Issuing a declaration of war against another human (1 point) = 0
Receiving a declaration of war from another human (1 point) = 1
Taking a province in war from a human (2 points per province) = 0
Force-Vassalization of a human (5 points) = 0
10 points at the end of every session will be distributed on the basis of maximum manpower. = 1 ?
Fleets = 1 ?
Writing an AAR (+1 point) = now 0, soon 1
Points left from previous session = 1
TOTAL = 5
PRESTIGE:
Having human vassals (+.5 prestige per European province owned by each vassal per session). = 0
Claiming DoTF (+10 prestige, although note that this comes with responsibilities...) = 0
Owning CoTs (+2 prestige per CoT per session) = 8
Owning European provinces (+1 prestige per European province per session) = 30
Owning colonial provinces (+.25 prestige per non European province) = 45 x 0.25 = 11,25
Winning a war (+3 prestige) = 0
50 prestige points will be distributed on the basis of percentage of income. = 9 ?
Being the leader in a technology (+1 prestige for each leader in each category)= 0
Existing! (+10 prestige) = 10
Increasing your income (+1 prestige per 10% increase) = (3255.4 - 2350.9) / 2350.9 = 38.5% = 4
Guaranteeing the independence of another human nation (committing yourself to help them in a defensive war) (+5 prestige) = 0
Writing an AAR (+1 point) = now 0, soon 2
Points from previous session = 2,75
Losing a war (-2 prestige for war lost, -3 prestige per European province surrendered, and -1 prestige per non European province lost) = -2 -3 -3 -3 -3 = -14
TOTAL = 62
HALNY (HAL) said:I know I am complaining too much, but my Spain is some mistake. What have I done wrong?!
Am I so bad player and scrwed Spain on the beginig, or there is something in this scenario which equal Spain to other nations?
Well a couple of the mistakes that you made in my opinion.
1) Ignored the rich Carribean -- now myself as France has largely claimed it.
2) Took way too long to annex Aztecs + Incas, and so your income didn't grow till much later than it should have
3) Failed to build a galley fleet at the beginning - this essentially is what gave Dago such a strong foothold in Italy and is still hurting now.
I think these three were your biggest problems so far.
There are still things you can do though. With culture claiming, North Africa might be more appealing, both as a source of MP and income, so you might want to think about expanding there. But just like Italy, you'll need a navy, and you'll likely come into conflict with the Ottomans again over Morocco.
I also think you should have kept Portugal alive a bit longer so it would keep colonizing for you. Annexing it and colonizing Brazil yourself was a mistake IMO-- you'd be a good deal stronger if you used those colonists elsewhere -- such as in the Carribean, or Northwest South America while Portugal finished Brazil for you.
Spain is still in decent shape, and can do a lot to recover. If I were you, the reconstruction of my navy during peace times would be a top priority, for both offensive and defensive purposes, and colonially, I would be trying to link my Inca and Aztec possessions (while still putting trade posts on areas I want to fence off from others).
AAR BRANDENBURG 1570-1600
The task of playing a small BrB among wolves is not an easy thing. How should one approach the situation when you earn perhaps one third of what a strong neghibour does? Or have half the number of men in your army? I have not been in such a position before in EU MP. The closest was when I played Persia in NOIV but then the difference was not this huge.
As I see you either need
1. a strong alliance partner. But alliances between humans is not allowed in this game.
2. to be friend with everyone
Ergo I tried to walk the path of strategy number 2. As a mean to this end I issued gurantees of independence, i.e. promising to support other human nations in defensive wars, thus giving them some increased sense of security.
The attitude of the guaranteed nations was mixed.
While RUS and ENG appeared basically positive or at least neutral, FRA and AUS appeared mostly amused while SWE felt insulted.... This illogical reaction from Pibe we have put our best scientists to look more closely into. It may well be that the mind of our good friend in the North does not work as normal minds. We must tread cautiously. Indeed, the last thing we heard from him was some kind of claim on Northern good German land. Which is of course out of the question. While Polish land may be sold German soil is Holy.
Coming to talk of commerce we made several interesting deals.
AUS gave us free hands with Saxony - which was annexed - while they got the right to buy two pieces of worthless Polish swamp provinces from us. The bankers in Berlin opened up a bottle up Champagne until the news reached the capital that the gready Austrians sold one of the provinces to Russia for the same amount they gave us for for both of them. Then the bottles were quickly emptied and the bankers went drunk to bed.
However, as Saxony was a part of the deal the wise government of BrB are satisfied with the deal.
A little later we sold Lithuania to Russia. This was a nice affair for a fair price (based upon the level of price in the previous deal between Russia and AUS) especially considering the fact that we did not own said province. It was owned by our vassal Poland. By formally asking us for permission to buy Lithuania the Russian Tsar gained much goodwill in Berlin.
And further more, to assist DonHal in his chief enterprise of merging Spain and Poland we sold Wielkopolska (our own province!) and the rest of Poland to him.
Thus we have lost 3 of our provinces (Polish) and gained one province (German) during the session. We have also had our vassal Poland lose 2 provinces and they are now down to 1. No doubt DonHal will incorporate them within a few years.
-----------
Regarding DP sliders we put much effort into deciding where to go. Finally we went +1 centra and +3 infra. We are still unsure if this was the right thing to do. The quality slider is a dangerous one since we are so small. Perhaps we should go to 2 on that slider? And try to compensate for the lost moral by being DotF. We are heavily serfdomised which I normally consider correct but as a small compact German BrB this is not good. We need to go several clicks to the left.
-------------
Presently we consider ourselves to be good friends with ENG, RUS and SPA (alphabetically ordered) while our relations with SWE appears dangerously low. However, we hope that our protestant brothers will start regarding us as friends. We have no claim on their land. To the rest the relations appears neutral or in Austria's case hopefully a little positive.
---------------
The fact is that BrB exists on the mercy of their neighbours. While SWE based on better economy and tech can win vs us, AUS due to much bigger army can annihilate us. Our only hope is that other nations prefers BrB to own all our juicy provinces instead of some warmonger. Thus more guarantees for our independence is most wellcome! We will only call for your assistance in defensive wars if you want to or if the situation is really critical.
The task of playing a small BrB among wolves is not an easy thing. How should one approach the situation when you earn perhaps one third of what a strong neghibour does? Or have half the number of men in your army? I have not been in such a position before in EU MP. The closest was when I played Persia in NOIV but then the difference was not this huge.
As I see you either need
1. a strong alliance partner. But alliances between humans is not allowed in this game.
2. to be friend with everyone
Ergo I tried to walk the path of strategy number 2. As a mean to this end I issued gurantees of independence, i.e. promising to support other human nations in defensive wars, thus giving them some increased sense of security.
The attitude of the guaranteed nations was mixed.
While RUS and ENG appeared basically positive or at least neutral, FRA and AUS appeared mostly amused while SWE felt insulted.... This illogical reaction from Pibe we have put our best scientists to look more closely into. It may well be that the mind of our good friend in the North does not work as normal minds. We must tread cautiously. Indeed, the last thing we heard from him was some kind of claim on Northern good German land. Which is of course out of the question. While Polish land may be sold German soil is Holy.
Coming to talk of commerce we made several interesting deals.
AUS gave us free hands with Saxony - which was annexed - while they got the right to buy two pieces of worthless Polish swamp provinces from us. The bankers in Berlin opened up a bottle up Champagne until the news reached the capital that the gready Austrians sold one of the provinces to Russia for the same amount they gave us for for both of them. Then the bottles were quickly emptied and the bankers went drunk to bed.
However, as Saxony was a part of the deal the wise government of BrB are satisfied with the deal.
A little later we sold Lithuania to Russia. This was a nice affair for a fair price (based upon the level of price in the previous deal between Russia and AUS) especially considering the fact that we did not own said province. It was owned by our vassal Poland. By formally asking us for permission to buy Lithuania the Russian Tsar gained much goodwill in Berlin.
And further more, to assist DonHal in his chief enterprise of merging Spain and Poland we sold Wielkopolska (our own province!) and the rest of Poland to him.
Thus we have lost 3 of our provinces (Polish) and gained one province (German) during the session. We have also had our vassal Poland lose 2 provinces and they are now down to 1. No doubt DonHal will incorporate them within a few years.
-----------
Regarding DP sliders we put much effort into deciding where to go. Finally we went +1 centra and +3 infra. We are still unsure if this was the right thing to do. The quality slider is a dangerous one since we are so small. Perhaps we should go to 2 on that slider? And try to compensate for the lost moral by being DotF. We are heavily serfdomised which I normally consider correct but as a small compact German BrB this is not good. We need to go several clicks to the left.
-------------
Presently we consider ourselves to be good friends with ENG, RUS and SPA (alphabetically ordered) while our relations with SWE appears dangerously low. However, we hope that our protestant brothers will start regarding us as friends. We have no claim on their land. To the rest the relations appears neutral or in Austria's case hopefully a little positive.
---------------
The fact is that BrB exists on the mercy of their neighbours. While SWE based on better economy and tech can win vs us, AUS due to much bigger army can annihilate us. Our only hope is that other nations prefers BrB to own all our juicy provinces instead of some warmonger. Thus more guarantees for our independence is most wellcome! We will only call for your assistance in defensive wars if you want to or if the situation is really critical.
Playing a small nation it was quite easy to spot this questionable feature in the interesting rules of this game:
A) 50 prestige points will be distributed on the basis of percentage of income.
Being the leader in a technology (+1 prestige for each leader in each category)
B) Increasing your income (+1 prestige per 10% increase)
Since we are around 8 players in this game on average each nation gets 6 points from A) each round.
As the normal income increase in one year in EU MP is around 1% or slighlty more (guessing a little here) and a session normally takes around 25 years the average reward in B) will be 2-3 points.
(Note that income increases during the 2nd half of the 16th century are not typical for EU game play).
Thus A) is normally rewarded twice as much compared to B). Is this right?
If you play a big nation from start you will be more rewarded from A) than if you play a small one.
My question is: is it skilful to play a big nation from start? Is this something we want to reward?
Whether it is more "prestigeful" or whatever is not something I care about.
IMO A) should be entirely skipped or at least severly toned down compared to B). B) mostly reflects skill, A) mostly reflects what your starting nation was.
--------
The same reasoning could be applied to size of MP, army and fleet. Reward increases, not size itself.
A) 50 prestige points will be distributed on the basis of percentage of income.
Being the leader in a technology (+1 prestige for each leader in each category)
B) Increasing your income (+1 prestige per 10% increase)
Since we are around 8 players in this game on average each nation gets 6 points from A) each round.
As the normal income increase in one year in EU MP is around 1% or slighlty more (guessing a little here) and a session normally takes around 25 years the average reward in B) will be 2-3 points.
(Note that income increases during the 2nd half of the 16th century are not typical for EU game play).
Thus A) is normally rewarded twice as much compared to B). Is this right?
If you play a big nation from start you will be more rewarded from A) than if you play a small one.
My question is: is it skilful to play a big nation from start? Is this something we want to reward?
Whether it is more "prestigeful" or whatever is not something I care about.
IMO A) should be entirely skipped or at least severly toned down compared to B). B) mostly reflects skill, A) mostly reflects what your starting nation was.
--------
The same reasoning could be applied to size of MP, army and fleet. Reward increases, not size itself.