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Mats_SX

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the spaniards are so far one of the most trustworthy nations in the game. Surely you did something very evil and unaceptable for them to do such thing.
I gave them a extremely lenient peace which ruined the Austrian menace to their realm. They promised that they would not demand Malta back, but relinquish all their claims on it. I signed a NAP with them before this session.

And then, out of the blue, they break the NAP and attack me from behind when I am occupied with thwarting the Russian invasion of Austria, taking 4 provinces from me, including Malta.

Very, very obviously the words of the Spanish king are just as hollow as their "honour". Lies, all of it. Plain and simple lies.

On top of this, Spain is one of the grandest powers in this game. Yet they have to go to such lows as breaking NAPs and repaying kindness with betrayal to get their way with occupied medium-powers like NL.

This is not "trustworthy" behaviour.
 

Barca

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Mulli, part of the NAP was "don't fuck with eachother's shit." Giving Persia all of the Eastern CoTs, after you agreed that they should be Venetian qualifies in my book.
 

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you untrustworthy bastard! you planed to steal persias cots all along!
 

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Mulli, part of the NAP was "don't fuck with eachother's shit." Giving Persia all of the Eastern CoTs, after you agreed that they should be Venetian qualifies in my book.

Are you back to that again? Youre like a repeating machine. But of course, even untrustworthy players need some kind of justifications for their actions, no matter their hollowness. Wellwell.
 

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also, i checked the save, and i was at full maintnance, and some warships atritioned away, is it ok if i request them edited back and half of maintance costs added to the treasury? John also spoke of some bug which kept sweden at 63% mint, is it alright if i ask for some of the treasury to be invested ins ome techs?

I think its ok, as I got similar edits earlier iirc.
 

Ampoliros

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I gave them a extremely lenient peace which ruined the Austrian menace to their realm. They promised that they would not demand Malta back, but relinquish all their claims on it. I signed a NAP with them before this session.

And then, out of the blue, they break the NAP and attack me from behind when I am occupied with thwarting the Russian invasion of Austria, taking 4 provinces from me, including Malta.

Very, very obviously the words of the Spanish king are just as hollow as their "honour". Lies, all of it. Plain and simple lies.

On top of this, Spain is one of the grandest powers in this game. Yet they have to go to such lows as breaking NAPs and repaying kindness with betrayal to get their way with occupied medium-powers like NL.

This is not "trustworthy" behaviour.

Well how can I respond to this? I can try to outline my rationals as well as Spain´s position at the last session.

First of I´m sorry, Mats, as this obviously rather upset you...on a personal level. That was most certainly not my intention.

In any case it was not something that was lightly done. There were many factors involved and I do believe some of them were the results of policies you choose to engage in:

1. Your expansion into southern France obviously to be used as a base versus Spain.
2. your unprovoked invasion of Spain.
3. The fact that we had napped everybody else (including Venice) effectively meaning that we would have not been able to gain any mt whatsoever.

Add to that the fact that we signed this nap in a kind of an ad hoc spur of the moment thing right after the session before last. I mean during the week between sessions circumstances change all the time. I know me agreeing to this nap in icq.....pro forma.....makes this my responsibility. I would also stress that I openly told you, Mats, I wasnt happy with NL in southern France - so you can´t really have been so surprised about this.

Anyways that´s my position.
 

Mats_SX

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Well how can I respond to this? I can try to outline my rationals as well as Spain´s position at the last session.

First of I´m sorry, Mats, as this obviously rather upset you...on a personal level. That was most certainly not my intention.
Nothing personal. Hence why I am saying "Spain" and not "Ampoliros".

In any case it was not something that was lightly done. There were many factors involved and I do believe some of them were the results of policies you choose to engage in:

1. Your expansion into southern France obviously to be used as a base versus Spain.
2. your unprovoked invasion of Spain.
3. The fact that we had napped everybody else (including Venice) effectively meaning that we would have not been able to gain any mt whatsoever.
1. Yes, initially. But when that programme was abandoned, by my standing down on the invasion, the provinces was only there since I already had them. As you may recall, Spain offered to buy the three, and I was reluctant to part with Gascogne alone. The other two I later agreed to sell to you, but then you had changed your mind.

2. Since my ally at the time was England, and England had ample reason to retaliate against your attempts to seize Ireland, the invasion was as an aid to England more than anything. On top of that, there is always reason to attack the richest nation.

3. That is a failure in your own diplomacy. And that is what I am criticising. But what does that matter? You could break the NAP with me; then you might as well sign NAPs with everyone and break them just as easily.

Add to that the fact that we signed this nap in a kind of an ad hoc fashion right after the session before last. As I knew I had agreed to it.....pro forma.....it is my bad. However I would stress that I openly told you, Mats, that I wasnt happy with NL in southern France - so you can´t really have been so surprised about this.
Indeed, and I did offer to sell you Armagnac and Toulouse. I knew about our conflict of interest in Gascogne, and if I were to acquire other ports elsewhere, it could have been settled. But demanding Malta on top of it? That just proves that your words were empty already when I stepped off from the invasion back in 1686.
 

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Russia is a superpower. OE isn't. OE is Russia's vassal. These two may be able to beat Austria 2v1, but I don't think they would beat Austria and Venice together, if at even odds (they haven't yet, AFAIK).

3vs2 i kinda doubt that austria would have won if we didn't have that spain fiasco seperating the war, we where stabhitting venice for delhi+calicut/naples and was at positive ws vs john to
 

Mats_SX

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3vs2 i kinda doubt that austria would have won if we didn't have that spain fiasco seperating the war, we where stabhitting venice for delhi+calicut/naples and was at positive ws vs john to
This is true, but then again Austria and Venice were fresh out of the war with England and had no preparation time. That's what I meant with "even odds".
 

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This is true, but then again Austria and Venice were fresh out of the war with England and had no preparation time. That's what I meant with "even odds".

russia was fairly idle prepared to at the time
 

Barca

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Looking at the save, it looks like Venice will need some edits. I'll do it myself sometime in the next few days, but I'll also need some tech compensation for having my whole nation looted/revolted for the whole session.
 

Barca

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Okay, I fixed my rebels, but I still need to figure out how much tech investment to add. After the rebels/looting is gone and maintenance sliders set to half (they were left at full) my income increases by 213.8D/month. I forgot when I dropped and the history is cleared, but we'll need to add 213.8 * the number of months I was dropped to my tech investment. My inflation will also have to be lowered, probably by around 4-5, but I'll figure that out later.
 
Last edited:

admiral drake

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Okay, I fixed my rebels, but I still need to figure out how much tech investment to add. After the rebels/looting is gone and maintenance sliders set to half (they were left at full) my income increases by 213.8D/month. I forgot when I dropped and the history is cleared, but we'll need to add 213.8 * the number of months I was dropped to my tech investment. My inflation will also have to be lowered, probably by around 4-5, but I'll figure that out later.

remember that you don't get delhi back dane, there was no way you could reach the rebels so hal alowed mulli to annex mughals
 

King John

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He could easily have gone through Tibet.
 

admiral drake

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He could easily have gone through Tibet.

venice had No Ma in any ai country xept for gujurate(wich is worthless)
venice would have to cross atleast 4ai or so to reach delhi trough tibet

then add to it that venice had a 1dot diplomonarch till 1722 so getting Ma trough ai would have been extremly expensive if not near imposible since hes at -200 wich each of them

and hal sayd ottos could annex mughals if it revolted so tough luck eitherway
 

admiral drake

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turns out suverov was commanding well before 1770 btw, he was a colonel in 1762 already
& since we have a tendency in general to always fix turene to 1630 & other leaders when proven wrong i reckon suverov deserves the same treatment
 

HALNY (HAL)

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