THIRST FOR GLORY III - Revolutions ;) :D

[Aladar]

If i compare this campaign to the 1510 stats of UNI there is a really large difference.

4 players have +2000 income vs. 1
118 manus vs. 29
8 barracks/12 shipyards vs. 1/3
11 players have LT9-LT13 vs. 1 LT9
Tradeincome 1847 with nerfs vs. without 1198

And this will ofcourse only be a lot worse once everyone spend there prestige and power after todays session.

 

[HALNY (HAL)]

Aladar, don't compare game without the P&P with the one that has it. It makes no sense. Lets just focus on way how to better reward smaller nations.

 

[Aladar]

Aladar, don't compare game without the P&P with the one that has it. It makes no sense. Lets just focus on way how to better reward smaller nations.

Even if you place a CC in every dutch provinse, what would be the point. I can never hope to claim either german or french culture, unless you grant me 500+ prestige each turn, which i tried to explain to you from the start. Dutch could easily be claimed by Brandenburg in 1 session.

The Uni game still had the point system, which gave everyone a pretty equal share of points, atleast no one gained 3-5 times as much as anyone else.

But with this amount of CC's, shipyards and manu's there will be pretty little skill left in this game in 50-100 years, when every european provinses will hold a manu or a cc or both + shipyard. The large nations get rewarded en masee and even if you reward smaller nations higher, where would i build the manus/cc's.

In the last p&p game there was 8 nations played includng China and USA, clearly that made more sense.

 

[HALNY (HAL)]

Problem with lack of place for manus and CCs is not a problem of this game only.
And big Brandnenburg and Russia is effect of lack of competition there.
Anyway during week I will think about some adjustments, now I'm too sleepy.

 

[King John]

Perhaps we ought to apply some major limitations to the system now. We have all spoiled ourselves with tax base and manpower and manufactories, but that doesn't mean that we have to keep on doing it does it? Why not just eliminate that whole part of the system, and adopt something that doesn't enrich everybody? Perhaps Hal could program in features that would reflect real life possibilities, like selling navies to other players, or scrapping fortresses(and getting some money back for it), or we could begin creating missions that we could all endeavor to undertake that would each have specific bonuses, and they could be tailor made for each nation. An RPG type of thing, but with bonuses that would still not be excessive.

We'll see what the leaders look like next session, but I suspect that these will still need some big tweakings as well. It would be nice if we could have two categories of leaders. Lower end leaders and higher end. The higher end could be the ones that would get better with more advanced MT, but only 1 or two of them per session, perhaps three at the highest MT levels(but this would have to require some very good luck too), while with the lower end, you would just get more and more of them, though none of them would ever be of any major value.

 

[admiral drake]

i'm against changes to the prestige system and frankly russia is unplayable without it at this point
however if you would do rpg john then we should scrap my badboy since who cares what happends in china irl
tho what your asking is to big of a difference without starting a new game all tegeter eitherway


i recommend we do what hal says, tweak the current system a bit to make it more fair for netherlands & co
tho your idea isn't bad for a new game john, might be a good idea to work it out for next game in a few months(there is no way you can work this out properly fast either)

 

[bluelotus]

Also which options do you want to take away John? Because I expanded like this due to the ability that I could convert most provinces in the next 30 years by points. I'm not going to accept the change of the abilities I've based my strategy on.

I'm sharing the opinion of tweaking the system not changing the possibilities of it.

 

[Ampoliros]

A start would be to simply make everything double or four times as expensive as it is at present (Prestige and PPs)

Also capping the amount of Prestige and PPs you can amass relative to the size of your country could be worth a thought. Basically making it easier for smaller nations to amass Prestige and PPs and more difficult for bigger ones.

All in all I am unsure as well however. This system seems to have gotten somewhat out of hand.

 

[unmerged(49695)]

not to mention everyone could spend lots of points in manus, ccs, shipyards, tax bonuses, while me, and now russia spend it on bb lowering, getting cultures, converting, getting cores.

what about the orthodox move? even tho i got to lvl 11, it was only after everybody stopped investing in it(Can be seen by everybody being at 3 or 4 in infra and most at 3 or 4 in trade)

Not to mention, even tho i did invest in my economy more this session, im still among the lowest income lvls, and among the highest techcost modifiers.

 

[Aladar]

Perhaps we ought to apply some major limitations to the system now. We have all spoiled ourselves with tax base and manpower and manufactories, but that doesn't mean that we have to keep on doing it does it?

Pretty sure it's to late to implement any significant changes to the system at this point. As other have said, they've forged their strategy on the P&P system so to alter it would ruin that.

Also altering it now would only mean that ½ the nations get to keep there giant advantages with up to 15 manus more than others, shipyards and CC's.

 

[admiral drake]

just give a bonus for being smaller then xxx provs

 

[Aladar]

just give a bonus for being smaller then xxx provs

Something like (average number of provinses/actual number of provinses) = x
P&P to be multiplied by x ?

 

[admiral drake]

Something like (average number of provinses/actual number of provinses) = x
P&P to be multiplied by x ?

something in that area atleast

 

[unmerged(49695)]

or allow them to have higher tax bonuses?

 

[EarendilHE]

Problem with lack of place for manus and CCs is not a problem of this game only.
And big Brandnenburg and Russia is effect of lack of competition there.
Anyway during week I will think about some adjustments, now I'm too sleepy.

its not likei didnt fight for my provinces...and austria is more advanced in technology than brandenburg...

holland had enough power points to buy several war manus (3 at least) some decades ago. ive adjusted my strategy after ive seen, that john (and others) bought war manus and refineries after the first session. instead aladar bought manpower in almost all provinces, while i did that only in 2 already high manpower provinces in addition with 2 ccs there...

 

[Aladar]

its not likei didnt fight for my provinces...and austria is more advanced in technology than brandenburg...

holland had enough power points to buy several war manus (3 at least) some decades ago. ive adjusted my strategy after ive seen, that john (and others) bought war manus and refineries after the first session. instead aladar bought manpower in almost all provinces, while i did that only in 2 already high manpower provinces in addition with 2 ccs there...

So i would be more competitive with 15 mp and 3 warmanus.....i see your logic.

 

[EarendilHE]

So i would be more competitive with 15 mp and 3 warmanus.....i see your logic.

i dont know many games, where holland has the same size as brandenburg and austria in the 15th century....do you?

and yes, you would be a bit more competitive, because you would have lost less wars, because of your higher land tech, giving you more power points, more prestige, etc....you would be less of a ball as you were for the bigger nations, esspecially for austria.

 

[Aladar]

i dont know many games, where holland has the same size as brandenburg and austria in the 15th century....do you?

and yes, you would be a bit more competitive, because you would have lost less wars, because of your higher land tech, giving you more power points, more prestige, etc....you would be less of a ball as you were for the bigger nations, esspecially for austria.

I had better LT when SPA/POR/VEN dow'ed me. I still have competitive LT now, even with only 1 warmanu as i've been teching LT prior to infra and trade.

Let's not forget who it was that first took advantage of FRA/HOL to gain 5 provinses from AUS, at the expense of making FRA a vassel of AUS and Holland lose a cot, then decides the BRA/HOL deal to fight AUS together is better to scrap for a 1 provinse win against AUS and a 20 years NAP, even after you are told of AUS demands on HOL. Your reply was to become vassel of BRA, so that AUS could not attack HOL, as dow'ing a vassel would require dow of the overlord. Something you then decided wasn't the fact 1 minute into the session.

And yes i do, look at the previous game where HOL was indeed very competitive with BRA/AUS and it took a combined effort of them to beat HOL, who was still able to beat back both AUS and BRA several times. Only switching subs who ignored deals with perms made sure than HOL didn't take out a much larger portion of BRA.

 

[EarendilHE]

Let's not forget who it was that first took advantage of FRA/HOL to gain 5 provinses from AUS, at the expense of making FRA a vassel of AUS and Holland lose a cot,

i took 4 (not 5) provinces after kanth (for vassalization; i couldnt do anything about it at that time) and you (for flandern and hainaut; but still 3 years before my peace with austria) peaced for a long time already...austria would have get much more from you, if i wouldnt have joined... later i was alone in the war with venice, spain, england, portugal and austria...do you think i shouldnt get something for my efforts?

 

[Aladar]

i took 4 (not 5) provinces after kanth (for vassalization; i couldnt do anything about it at that time) and you (for flandern and hainaut; but still 3 years before my peace with austria) peaced for a long time already...austria would have get much more from you, if i wouldnt have joined... later i was alone in the war with venice, spain, england, portugal and austria...do you think i shouldnt get something for my efforts?

But had i build 3 warmanus this would have changed. I see.